#1121
Double post so I'll add that I read John DeCamp's book on the subject, not the Bryant one. DeCamp was a State Senator who led the special committee investigation and was basically accused by people who say the whole affair is hoax of trying to use the scandal to further his political career.

DeCamp was a right wing Republican, a real reactionary who was friends with William Colby, who DeCamp claims told to the effect of "there are just things too big for one man to take down by himself." His relationship with Colby is probably the weirdest part of the whole thing. I know for a fact that these pedophile rings exist, I know for a fact that they're being run by these people, but I can't figure out why DeCamp, friends with Colby would be so against them. Most likely it's the example of a low-level guy thinking that even that is too far for him. But part of me wonders if he was part of some laundering effort to discredit the case or something.

I can't read about the case for too long, like I mentioned in the other post, I read it at a certain point six or so years ago and had to put it down. This was around the time the Epstein stuff first came onto my radar and I started really digging into it so it was all very demoralizing.

Edited by Parenti ()

#1122
why is it taking the dnc so long to steal the iowa caucus away from bernard sanders
#1123
Gladio... wa... needs work, I’m an ‘ideas man’
#1124
Cornfed fascism.
#1125
operation plaidio
#1126
#1127
yeah the U.S.-margins press owes at least 50% of its insight into its own government's policy to Italian people yelling in Italian, in Italy
#1128
idk where to post this so here seems fine:

While in the US they are talking about some kind of novel bullshit to deal with coronavirus and having senate committees or whatever, last week this was published:

Gao, Jianjun, Zhenxue Tian, and Xu Yang. "Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studies." BioScience Trends (2020).
It's a very short paper, it just says what the title says basically. Free PDF here: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/advpub/0/advpub_2020.01047/_pdf/-char/en

"a conference was held on February 15, 2020; participants including experts from government and regulatory authorities and organizers of clinical trials reached an agreement that chloroquine phosphate has potent activity against COVID-19."

Building on previous research treating SARS, etc, it's not like they just came up with the idea randomly; for example these in-vitro results:

Wang, M., Cao, R., Zhang, L. et al. Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro. Cell Res (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41422-020-0282-0
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0?fbclid=IwAR3c5iy9h65X1cnkrL6i6fJcWwi0ygN1LtI67SkcgREM4DyxxAcPauRuf5w#citeas
published 4 Feb 2020

There was also this published on Feb 20th, which are guidelines for treatment with chloroquine:

广东省科技厅及广东省卫生健康委磷酸氯喹治疗新冠状病毒肺炎多中心协作组. 磷酸氯喹治疗新型冠状病毒肺炎的专家共识 . 中华结核和呼吸杂志,2020,43 (2020-02-20).http://rs.yiigle.com/yufabiao/1182323.htm. DOI: 10.3760/cma.j.issn.1001-0939.2020.0019..
(Guangdong Provincial Science and Technology Department and Guangdong Provincial Health and Health Commission's Multicenter Collaboration Group on Chloroquine Phosphate for New Coronavirus Pneumonia. Expert Consensus on Chloroquine Phosphate for New Coronavirus Pneumonia . Chinese Journal of Tuberculosis and Respiratory Medicine, 2020,43 (2020-02-20))
http://rs.yiigle.com/yufabiao/1182323.htm

Anyway, it seems crazy that this doesn't/didn't get more coverage and instead everyone is talking about whatever weird new patented shit.

Here is a French article about the director of the Mediterrean Infection University Hospital Institute in Marseille who is also mad about this: https://www.20minutes.fr/sante/2727411-20200226-coronavirus-faute-medicale-donner-chloroquine-contre-virus-chinois-selon-professeur-didier-raoult

My translations

Q: Can you explain what chloroquine is?

It's a very old medicine. It's probably the most used medicine - alongside aspirin - in the history of humanity. Younger people don't know it because it's known only as an antimalarial. People who have lived in Africa like myself have taken chloroquine daily. Everyone who visits these hot countries take it for their entire trip, and every day for two months after their return. There are millions of people who have taken this medicine. And it costs nothing: 10 cents a tablet. It's a medicine that is extremely reliable, and cheaper than our wildest dreams. So it's super good news. Everybody who understands these benefits should jump on it.

Q: Some scientists are less enthusiastic than you on the benefits of using chloroquine for coronavirus, for example Professor Astrid Vabret in Sciences et Avenir...

I don't care about people spreading rumours. I'm not interested. My focus has been infectious diseases for 40 years. I feel obligated, and I believe it is now necessary, to communicate that which I know - not some opinions - about research on infectious diseases. After that -- what you do with it, I'm not a prophet. I don't care. I'm trying to be as clear as possible. When someone shows that a medicine works on 100 people when the entire world is about to have a nervous breakdown, and there are some idiots who say they aren't sure if it works, I'm not interested!

Q: Are you going to use chloroquine at the IHU (University Hospital Insititute) to treat coronavirus?

Chinese scientists are very serious people. They aren't clowns. And they have shown that chloroquine works. It would be malpractice, honestly, to not prescribe chloroquine in the case of coronavirus. It doesn't make sense. Let's be serious. Tomorrow, you start coughing. You have coronavirus and a fever of 40C. And some people tell you "you know, I don't believe in using chloroquine to treat coronavirus" ... what do you do?

At the IHU, we have put into place a therapeutic protocol. What we do is treat diseases. There are people who come in with a serious disease, and it's been shown that the only treatment for this disease is chloroquine. So to not give chloroquine, you'd have to be full of it! So we will be notifying the minister that if people who arrive have a coronavirus, we will be treating them with chloroquine because it is the only treatment which has been demonstrated to work. That's it! It's not mysterious, it's medicine, not TV gossip!



(edit: I wrote "medical error" where it should have said "malpractice". I think. Fixed.)

Edited by drwhat ()

#1129
that's a good one
#1130
looks like its gin and tonic season, time to load up on a constant drip feed of quinine. for medicinal purposes.
#1131
So from reading further I gather that chloroquine is useful for reducing the severity of symptoms and speeding recovery. Not a cure by any stretch but really useful. Unlikely to be used in the west because it's been mostly abandoned here as its efficacy against malaria waned, but still commonly used across the developing world, so hopefully this means they get some benefit we've denied ourselves in an ironic twist.
#1132
my interpretation was that in scientific medical literature, on a hot topic with everyone in the world staring at you, saying it reduces symptoms across the board and speeds time to negative test result was actually quite a strong claim.

i mean you do what you want, but I'm taking Dr shriekingviolet's advice and just staying drunk on g&t for the next 10 months
#1133
i was planning to drink a lot of g&t anyway. at least the gin, that's good enough right
#1134

Petrol posted:

i was planning to drink a lot of g&t anyway. at least the gin, that's good enough right


it doesn't work without the quinine in the tonic water!!! do not troll me like this !!

#1135
lol
#1136
folks tonic water does not contain anywhere near a theraputic dose, y'all going to need dytd levels of g&t. talking about 4+ liters of just tonic daily
#1137
hell as if i needed any more excuses to drink like the british raj!
#1138

ialdabaoth posted:

folks tonic water does not contain anywhere near a theraputic dose, y'all going to need dytd levels of g&t. talking about 4+ liters of just tonic daily


and?

#1139
just rememreb to include typods in your dyad posts so i know your legit, stay safe out there
#1140
I love tonic water by itself tbh
#1141

c_man posted:

I love tonic water by itself tbh


gonna undermine my DYTD cred here but, same

#1142
I'm translating this for sharing with some other people anyway so I will post this one here too. I decided to check out the article with the critique they mentioned (from Astrid Vabret). I'm not sure if Raoult is crazy or what but I like that he yells about idiots a lot

"Game over!" for the Covid-19 epidemic? That's the title of an attention-getting announcement by Prof. Dr. Didier Raoult, Director of the Mediterranean Infections University-Hospital Institute (Institut hospitalo-universitaire Méditerranée-Infections) of Marseille, a video published February 25th, 2020 by the prestigious research centre. The source of this news: two Chinese publications that unveiled the potential of a long-known antimalarial, chloroquine, to accelerate the recovery of patients affected by the new coronavirus. "It has been demonstrated that chloroquine phosphate, a classic medication for the treatment of malaria, has apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against Covid-19-associated pneumonia in the series of multi-centric clinical trials undertaken in China," wrote a team of pharmacologists at the University Hospital of Qingdao (Shandong Province, China). If Covid-19 is benign in 85% of cases, a treatment like this would allow the focusing of resources on the moderate and severe cases. The researchers cited multiple trials across ten Chinese hospitals encompassing 100 patients in total - a quite limited sample.

Chloroquine vs. coronavirus: clinical data still limited

It is necessary to continue to evaluate the efficacy of chloroquine, but a consensus of experts recommended the addition of chloroquine phosphate to the recommendations of patient care in China, at the rate of 500mg twice daily for 10 days. The benefit of this strategy is that the antimalarial is immediately available and inexpensive. This is a drug that has been around for a long time. Despite this, Raoult's announcement has been strongly criticized by a number of French doctors and scientists on social networks for its lack of balance. Indeed, clinical data is still limited, and the use of chloroquine can cause potentially serious side effects.

Chloroquine: recommended dosage and side effects

In an interview with Sciences et Avenir, Didier Raoult swept aside the criticisms. "In our team, we've used chloroquine for a long time to treat certain bacterial infections. Some of our patients were treated for two years, even. We understand the potential side-effects. Moreover, we must begin to take Chinese scientists seriously - in particular, the virologists, who are among the best in the world."

In the case at hand, two risks associated with chloroquine are known from past experience. The first is retinopathy, which can even lead to blindness in some cases, though this risk is associated with long-term use of the drug over multiple years. In the case of Covid-19, it would suffice to treat patients for a dozen days. "However, 500mg twice daily is definitely a serious dose," admits Dr. Raoult. The other adverse reaction is that of well-documented acute poisoning, potentially triggering cardiac or respiratory problems. The recommended dose by the Chinese researchers is near the risk zone (do not exceed 20mg/kg/day, e.g. 1200mg for a 60kg (132lb) person, 1500mg for 75kg (165lb) person, according to Vidal [a national drug reference guide in France.])

Towards a clinical trial of chloroquine on coronavirus in France?

"We get the same old soap opera about using chloroquine as an antiviral every time a virus emerges," says Prof. Astrid Vabret, head of the virology department of the University Hospital Centre of Caen. "We know that it works well in vitro on viruses with viral envelopes like the new coronavirus, but clinical data remains very limited." Out of the question, then, to rush to this medicine.

But Didier Raoult responds: "We want to set up a clinical trial in France to test chloroquine on patients infected with already-known coronaviruses which circulate each year in France - despite the fact that nobody really cares about them. You know, since the beginning of the year, we have diagnosed 500 patients with these other coronaviruses, two of whom have died? It's cases like these that I want to be trying this strategy out on."

It's true: four strains of coronavirus already circulate each year in France. "It is important to realize that the panic is always much more dangerous than the virus," insists Raoult. "This new coronavirus does not really merit us panicking. I continue to say that, like other seasonal viruses, there's a strong chance that it will disappear by springtime. At worst, instead of having 13 viruses that give us seasonal infections, we'll have 14. But I doubt that that would make a significant difference in over-winter mortality rates."

The French Health Minister, Olivier Véran, assures that he has spoken repeatedly with Didier Raoult: "He's shared his observations and the several studies which he's highlighted, and I have passed those along to the Directorate-General of Health which will be doing some analysis."


Edited by drwhat ()

#1143

c_man posted:

I love tonic water by itself tbh


thats a ban

#1144

ialdabaoth posted:

just rememreb to include tidepods in your dyad posts so i know your legit


#1145
Gladio anecdotes:
#1146

c_man posted:

I love tonic water by itself tbh


mods rename cman thomas quinine

#1147
anyone got any dirt on the vegas mass shooting? more i read about it, the weirder it seems.
#1148
I don't know much about it besides the basics, what seems weird about it? Seemed like typical white amerikkkan behaviour to me
#1149

Petrol posted:

I don't know much about it besides the basics, what seems weird about it? Seemed like typical white amerikkkan behaviour to me



apparently there was CP on both the brothers' hard drives, and the cops dropped all the charges against the one who didn't do the shooting at the behest of FBI. idk, probably an informant or something.

#1150
oh okay. yeah probably
#1151

Petrol posted:

oh okay. yeah probably


#1152
I have a theory that the FBI child porn division has high "suicides" because they do more covering up than arrests.
#1153

vimingok posted:

For some reason this video was the top recommendation for the one I just posted. There was an nyt thing last year about an ex-altright guy and now there's him and many more to come I'm sure. What I don't understand is why this is supposed to be interesting or significant enough to warrant nyt articles. I guess for the same reason Ben Shapiro is popular. Also will this be the next online cottage industry? Escape from the altright and make some money off talking about it, lol.


Yeah. Not watching those videos but was out eating lunch and saw a video like that playing on a daytime T.V. show, aimed at mothers in this "what your kids might be getting up to online" sort of way. I think it might be partly recuperation since these news networks were running sensationalist articles / shows on the alt-right for a time as "dangerous... but classy... intriguing." *monocle eyepop*

I'm also thinking that there's a renewal of government "CVE" grants after a spate of attacks, or expectation of future grants down the line (either now or in a future Democratic administration). And the way to get those grants is to grab somebody and center them in a media-ready "success story" bundle to shop around at the networks. Then once you're on the air, grab the footage and play it on repeat at your booth at upcoming "nat sec" trade shows. "As seen on T.V."



Info on this group: https://militarist-monitor.org/profile/clarion_fund/

#1154

trakfactri posted:

Info on this group: https://militarist-monitor.org/profile/clarion_fund/



Yeah we’ve had some fun with them, they’re the people responsible for the psycho holy-war training videos local governments use to build cop brains nowadays

#1155
and their office is literally a Zionist-imperialist logistics HQ.
#1156
like how shameless does someone have to be to manufacture right-wing turncoat celebrities out of a “shared office” whose mission is staffing fortified outposts for a colonial apartheid state
#1157

vimingok posted:

For some reason this video was the top recommendation for the one I just posted. There was an nyt thing last year about an ex-altright guy and now there's him and many more to come I'm sure. What I don't understand is why this is supposed to be interesting or significant enough to warrant nyt articles


what an inexplicable thing

#1158

tears posted:

vimingok posted:

For some reason this video was the top recommendation for the one I just posted. There was an nyt thing last year about an ex-altright guy and now there's him and many more to come I'm sure. What I don't understand is why this is supposed to be interesting or significant enough to warrant nyt articles

what an inexplicable thing


The line seems to be right wing youtube pundits are 'radicalising' them but alt-right is a ruthlessly honest (=dumbed down) version of white liberalism which I imagine is pretty useless to real fascist politics. ICE guards aren't alt-right.

#1159

vimingok posted:

a ruthlessly honest (=dumbed down) version of white liberalism which I imagine is pretty useless to real fascist politics. ICE guards aren't alt-right.


hey friend you're a cool dude and I've enjoyed seeing you post here but. this is entirely and exactly wrong. white liberalism is the agar of fascist politics. while the "alt-right" as a category is a meaningless headline sensation fabrication, reframing and modernizing the continuation of a broader trend of already existing white supremacy, ICE guards are the fascist real material manifestation of this particular elan of revanchism

#1160
Liberalism provides the material basis for fascism (during capitalist crises) but the latter is historically a revolution against liberalism right? Or at least trying to subsume it under a non- or anti- liberal fascist order? What I was trying to say is the alt right/white supremacy movement *is* naked white liberalism but also not fascism precisely because it's just that. And it won't have much to lend to fascism when it descends upon white people instead of latinos. I'm not saying it won't be white supremacist but it's likely to be more racially inclusive and also less liberal than what altrightists seem to have in mind. I read somewhere that ICE is only 50% white. Whiteness won't outlive the conditions that created it.

Like in India you have Modi's "fascism" which is really just dialling up the Congress's (much) subtler Hindutva to optimum. Middle class muslims aren't getting their houses burned, and very few of them will be targeted by the CAA. "Hinduism" itself was a British fabrication that upper caste North-Indian liberals developed into "Indian" nationalist identity. In fact Hinduism and Judaism are similar in that a lot of emphasis is placed amongst their respective PB on how one can be an atheist while also "culturally" religious, and both of them started within liberal British imperialism.

My half-baked theory is that much of what is called fascism today is a decadent kind of liberalism and not larval fascism. Larval fascism exists and overlaps with it but will manifest as something else, likely in direct opposition to it. The fact this form of liberalism pays lilting homage to fascism doesn't prove it's fascist. Social democrats invoke socialism, Lenin, maybe even Stalin if they're "tankies".