#681
[account deactivated]
#682
no, but i would like to see red letter media review the last season of the sopranos
#683
i got the creatrion of patriarchy at this weird little bookstore. they were supposed to have a good philosophy & social sceince, religion etc sections but there was NO caliban & witch, NO boys and men beach sunset textbook, NO heidegger, NO sayyid qutb. the guy running the store told this other guy "you know, people who actually know what happened on 9/11, charlie sheen knows it, rosie o'donnal [?? i think the fat lady -ed] knows it, thats why they've suppressed them". anyawy i just took this book because it seemed like the best one in there and escaped. i know that amazon workers are dying in warehouses but fuck. i dont know. i will go to the warehouse myself and work the shift my package is shipped on because aargajdsfgag

anyway hopefully this book is good!!
#684
i just bought volumes II and III of capital from amazon because the new harvey lectures are starting to get posted. i wonder what the sweating dying workers thought as they packed marx into my box

probably nothing good. but they were well-packed!
#685
[account deactivated]
#686
i just read the amazon review of that book and within the first paragraph the premise is totally fucked:

Gerda Lerner argues that male dominance over women is not "natural" or biological, but the product of an historical development begun in the second millennium B.C. in the Ancient Near East. As patriarchy as a system of organizing society was established historically, she contends, it can also be ended by the historical process.


male dominance over women was known in incan and aztec cultures, in japanese culture, in chinese culture, in middle eastern cultures prior to the hebrews, and in greek and roman society that had little to do with them.
#687
professor of anthropology Donald Brown lists among his human cultural universals the claim that in all societies males dominate the public and political realm. patriarchy rules everything around me
#688

Goethestein posted:
i just read the amazon review of that book and within the first paragraph the premise is totally fucked:

Gerda Lerner argues that male dominance over women is not "natural" or biological, but the product of an historical development begun in the second millennium B.C. in the Ancient Near East. As patriarchy as a system of organizing society was established historically, she contends, it can also be ended by the historical process.


male dominance over women was known in incan and aztec cultures, in japanese culture, in chinese culture, in middle eastern cultures prior to the hebrews, and in greek and roman society that had little to do with them.



im not that far into it but im pretty sure she argues for multiple independent origins of patriarchy in the same way that there were multiple independent agricultures

#689

shennong posted:
im not that far into it but im pretty sure she argues for multiple independent origins of patriarchy in the same way that there were multiple independent agricultures



we just keep making the same mistakes

#690
Its probably unavoidable that the larger, stronger and more aggressive sex would end up initially dominant. I suppose it makes more sense with independent geneses but male dominance in the public sphere is pretty universal
#691
Its just kind of annoying in general when people deny that certain things are natural as an argument against them. Whether or not something is natural is morally irrelevant
#692

Goethestein posted:
Its just kind of annoying in general when people deny that certain things are natural as an argument against them. Whether or not something is natural is morally irrelevant



that's true, but the whole 'natural' thing is problematic as hell, since it's so contingent. the reason why they say 'it's not natural' is because they're trying to dismiss deterministic explanations

#693
the book is fairly carefully argued so far and i dont think ive seen any references to "nature". she basically says that if the historical process created patriarchy relatively recently (her thesis) that the historical process can also dismantle it
#694
dominating public spaces and the political realm is chump change imho
#695

aerdil posted:
i just bought volumes II and III of capital from amazon because the new harvey lectures are starting to get posted. i wonder what the sweating dying workers thought as they packed marx into my box

probably nothing good. but they were well-packed!



upvoted for alerting me to the new videos, and emphatically NOT for your unethical purchasing practices

#696
[account deactivated]
#697

mistersix posted:

aerdil posted:
i just bought volumes II and III of capital from amazon because the new harvey lectures are starting to get posted. i wonder what the sweating dying workers thought as they packed marx into my box

probably nothing good. but they were well-packed!

upvoted for alerting me to the new videos, and emphatically NOT for your unethical purchasing practices



yeah i might make a reading group thread soon, although i got no idea how soon the next videos will be posted. but maybe that'll give people enough time to buy the books & read the first 3 chapters anyway

#698
#699
Lady Mary Wortley Montagu
LET. XXIX.
To the Countess of ——.

Adrianople, April 1. O. S. 1717.

I wish to God, dear sister, that you were as regular in letting me know what passes on your side of the globe, as I am careful in endeavouring to amuse you by the account of all I see here, that I think worth your notice. You content yourself with telling me over and over, that the town is very dull: it may, possibly, be dull to you, when every day does not present you with something new; but for me that am in arrears, at least two months news, all that seems very stale with you, would be very fresh and sweet here. Pray let me into more particulars, and I will try to awaken your gratitude, by giving you a full and true relation of the novelties of this place, none of which would surprise you more than a sight of my person, as I am now in my Turkish habit, though I believe you would be of my opinion, that 'tis admirably becoming. —— I intend to send you my picture; in the mean time accept of it here.

The first part of my dress is a pair of drawers, very full that reach to my shoes, and conceal the legs more modestly than your petticoats. They are of a thin rose-coloured damask, brocaded with silver flowers. My shoes are of white kid leather, embroidered with gold. Over this hangs my smock, of a fine white silk gauze, edged with embroidery. This smock has wide sleeves hanging half way down the arm, and is closed at the neck with a diamond button; but the shape and colour of the bosom is very well to be distinguished through it. —— The antery is a waistcoat, made close to the shape, of white and gold damask, with very long sleeves falling back, and fringed with deep gold fringe, and should have diamond or pearl buttons. My caftan, of the same stuff with my drawers, is a robe exactly fitted to my shape, and reaching to my feet, with very long strait falling sleeves. Over this is my girdle, of about four fingers broad, which, all that can afford it, have entirely of diamonds or other precious stones; those who will not be at that expence, have it of exquisite embroidery on sattin; but it must be fastened before with a clasp of diamonds. —— The curdee is a loose robe they throw off, or put on, according to the weather, being of a rich brocade (mine is green and gold) either lined with ermine or sables; the sleeves reach very little below the shoulders. The head dress is composed of a cap, called talpock, which is, in winter, of fine velvet embroidered with pearls or diamonds, and in summer, of a light shining silver stuff. This is fixed on one side of the head, hanging a little way down with a gold tassel, and bound on, either with a circle of diamonds (as I have seen several) or a rich embroidered handkerchief. On the other side of the head, the hair is laid flat; and here the ladies are at liberty to shew their fancies; some putting flowers, others a plume of heron's feathers, and, in short, what they please; but the most general fashion is a large bouquet of jewels, made like natural flowers; that is, the buds, of pearl; the roses, of different coloured rubies: the jessamines, of diamonds; the jonquils, of topazes, &c. so well set and enamelled, 'tis hard to imagine any thing of that kind so beautiful. The hair hangs at its full length behind, divided into tresses braided with pearl or ribbon, which is always in great quantity. I never saw in my life so many fine heads of hair. In one lady's, I have counted a hundred and ten of the tresses, all natural; but it must be owned, that every kind of beauty is more common here than with us. 'Tis surprising to see a young woman that is not very handsome. They have naturally the most beautiful complexion in the world, and generally large black eyes. I can assure you with great truth, that the court of England (though I believe it the fairest in Christendom) does not contain so many beauties as are under our protection here. They generally shape their eye-brows, and both Greeks and Turks have the custom of putting round their eyes a black tincture, that, at a distance, or by candle-light, adds very much to the blackness of them. I fancy many of our ladies would be overjoyed to know this secret, but 'tis too visible by day. They dye their nails a rose colour; but, I own, I cannot enough accustom myself to this fashion, to find any beauty in it.

As to their morality or good conduct, I can say, like Harlequin, that 'tis just as 'tis with you; and the Turkish ladies don't commit one sin the less for not being Christians. Now, that I am a little acquainted with their ways, I cannot forbear admiring, either the exemplary discretion, or extreme stupidity of all the writers that have given accounts of them. 'Tis very easy to see, they have in reality more liberty than we have. No woman, of what rank soever, is permitted to go into the streets without two murlins, one that covers her face all but her eyes, and another, that hides the whole dress of her head, and hangs half way down her back. Their shapes are also wholely concealed, by a thing they call a serigee, which no woman of any sort appears without; this has strait sleeves, that reach to their fingers-ends, and it laps all round them, not unlike a riding-hood. In winter, 'tis of cloth; and in summer, of plain stuff or silk. You may guess then, how effectually this disguises them, so that there is no distinguishing the great lady from her slave. 'Tis impossible for the most jealous husband to know his wife, when he meets her; and no man dare touch or follow a woman in the street.

This perpetual masquerade gives them entire liberty of following their inclinations, without danger of discovery. The most usual method of intrigue, is, to send an appointment to the lover to meet the lady at a Jew's shop, which are as notoriously convenient as our Indian-houses; and yet, even those who don't make use of them, do not scruple to go to buy pennyworths, and tumble over rich goods, which are chiefly to be found amongst that sort of people. The great ladies seldom let their gallants know who they are; and 'tis so difficult to find it out, that they can very seldom guess at her name, whom they have corresponded with for above half a year together. You may easily imagine the number of faithful wives very small in a country where they have nothing to fear from a lover's indiscretion, since we see so many have the courage to expose themselves to that in this world, and all the threatened punishment of the next, which is never preached to the Turkish damsels. Neither have they much to apprehend from the resentment of their husbands; those ladies that are rich, having all their money in their own hands. Upon the whole, I look upon the Turkish women, as the only free people in the empire; the very divan pays respect to them; and the grand signior himself, when a bassa is executed, never violates the privileges of the haram, (or womens apartment) which remains unsearched and entire to the widow. They are queens of their slaves, whom the husband has no permission so much as to look upon, except it be an old woman or two that his lady chuses. 'Tis true, their law permits them four wives; but there is no instance of a man of quality that makes use of this liberty, or of a woman of rank that would suffer it. When a husband happens to be inconstant, (as those things will happen) he keeps his mistress in a house apart, and visits her as privately as he can, just as it is with you. Amongst all the great men here, I only know the testerdar, (i.e. a treasurer) that keeps a number of she slaves, for his own use, (that is, on his own side of the house; for a slave once given to serve a lady, is entirely at her disposal) and he is spoke of as a libertine, or what we should call a rake, and his wife won't see him, though she continues to live in his house. Thus you see, dear sister, the manners of mankind do not differ so Widely, as our voyage-writers would make us believe. Perhaps, it would be more entertaining to add a few surprising customs of my own invention; but nothing seems to me so agreeable as truth, and I believe nothing so acceptable to you. I conclude therefore with repeating the great truth of my being,

Dear sister, &c.
#700
cool post
#701
#702

babyfinland posted:

lol

#703

Crow posted:

babyfinland posted:

lol



wat

#704
oh i see, 14 minutes into the video there is english
#705
lol if u cant listen to panel discussions at l'EHESS without subtitles or translation...
#706
amina wadud is kind of interesting as a counterforce to salafism in the realm of puritanism ("puritanism" i.e. a sort of islamic renaissance, return to the original texts, salafis representing a conservative position and wadud representing a feminist one)
#707


This is much more concise and better imho though theres an itneresting thing in part 3 of the video I posted previously around 15 - 17 mins where she talks about how nationalism and secularism sustains religious irrationalism and conservatism as such.
#708

babyfinland posted:

This is much more concise and better imho though theres an itneresting thing in part 3 of the video I posted previously around 15 - 17 mins where she talks about how nationalism and secularism sustains religious irrationalism and conservatism as such.



this seems pretty radical, she's sort of arguing for a deliberately constructionist approach to cultural practice i think? that makes sense to me but i guess who adjudicates it? what does a truly universal islam look like? what kinds of practices can it absorb and what kinds strike at the core of what islam means and cannot be tolerated?

#709

shennong posted:

babyfinland posted:

This is much more concise and better imho though theres an itneresting thing in part 3 of the video I posted previously around 15 - 17 mins where she talks about how nationalism and secularism sustains religious irrationalism and conservatism as such.

this seems pretty radical, she's sort of arguing for a deliberately constructionist approach to cultural practice i think? that makes sense to me but i guess who adjudicates it? what does a truly universal islam look like? what kinds of practices can it absorb and what kinds strike at the core of what islam means and cannot be tolerated?



luckily enough the book i'm reading now "islam and the blackamerican: the third resurrection" by sherman jackson deals precisely with this

#710
wats it say
#711
well i just st arted but he almost literally repeats the argument i made in my last front page article about false universals, using ibn taymiyya as a source i highlighted parts and ill see if i can snag them off the kindle later
#712
#713
I worked on a long thing, based on something I was trying to explain to DISCIPLINE, but my computer crashed.

I was trying to explain how, when your'e a very conventionally attractive girl, ,the united states both opens and closes for you. When you are a fashion model girl with impeccable personal style, people pay attention to you. People care about things you do that they may hand wave from a fat man or a girl with really bad acne. But, they want you to be a few specific things, and if you aren't those, you basically are ignored until you conform to expectations.

And there is nothing more socially coercive than exclusion. Being ignored hurts.

I tried really hard to come up with some context beyond myself to explain what I mean. As far as I understand, In the 80s women entered upper management and other important positions in business. To be Taken Seriously they wore power suits and had hideous short haircuts and clunky unfeminine (as it was thought at the time at least) jewelry.
They had to do this to stop being seen as the office "girls" who existed to serve the important and busy businessmen. Pretty and happy, doing what they were told, maybe not so smart, sometimes ditzy, girls. They had to be replaced by serious, cruel, severe, ruthless, masculine BusinessWomen. because they were excluded from business before, because of their essential femininty stuff that disqualified them from whatever business stuff. You've probably seen the investment bank women of today, chanel suit, designer jewelry (which means feminine without being Girrrly or tradiconal), a bob of some stripe, and reasonable heels. Makeup that covers flaws and enhances but doesn't stand out. A sort of platform that says, Woman-attractive-but not sexxxy girl.

Back to me, in being a model with perfect and singular personal style, classic american style, ralph lauren runway combined with contemporary new materials and military utility, and certain old luxury bent. But even being sexy and good will get you ignored if you' do the wrong activity the wrong way. you cant work on guns or motorcycles and be treated like anything but a joke unless you dress in the megan fox transformers mold of cutoffs and tight tees with makeup but greasy spots on your face. and you ca wear expensive fanc y dresses and b e fully coiffed and talk about your manual pursuits, or even soft art stuff, without being ignored or just humored.

if you're a sexy girl you're put on a pedestal, sometimes a hamster tube system, and if you try to climb around or get out , you might as well not exist.


Sorry if this doesn't make sense or it's all fully acknowledged stuff that i'm saying in a tortured and stupid away.
#714
girls dont exist
#715

Myfanwy posted:
And there is nothing more socially coercive than exclusion. Being ignored hurts.



i refute it thus *sits on own testicles*

#716
i bet it would be really fun to be a gorgeous woman for a week or two but it prolly gets old pr fast. everywhere you go, everybody always gawking at you; it'd be like riding a segway
#717
probably like that episode of how i met your mother where they go to a gay bar riiiight?!?!
#718
[account deactivated]
#719

aerdil posted:
girls dont exist





Josefina Ayerza
"Woman Does Not Exist"
Josefina will be addressing Lacan's Woman in that she does not exist. The jouissance woman experiences—yet knows nothing about—puts us on the path of existence. And why not interpret one face of the Other, the God face, as based on feminine jouissance?

#720

aerdil posted:
girls dont exist



wh0a compelling