#281

Petrol posted:

Frankly, much has changed since 2016. If you're going to engage with electoral politics at all you are already talking about some degree of strategic compromise. People are genuinely scared of the political milieu right now, not unreasonably. And they hold out some hope that Sanders could beat Trump and that, if he did, some of the most vulnerable people (domestically at least haha) could be afforded some relief in the immediate term. On the first point they are wrong so it's all academic, but on the second point they are right, and it's probably unfair to be mad at them for trying. PSL or whoever are never going to become the vanguard that leads a communist revolution in the united snake of amrika so who cares anyway. Give them a damn break


american politics is insane and unpredictable, and bernie's already made it further than i expected. for the quoted reason i will vote for him if he is nominated after all. yes.. dimitrov, and togliatti, and social democracy is the left wing of fascism, the dsa sucks, etc. i agree, i still think all of this. still.. its bernie time for me, personally

#282
Really enjoying Trump’s recent tweets wherein he is very pointedly reminding the democrats over and over that he will win if they nominate Bloomberg alongside retweeting accounts such as BERNIE BEATS TRUMP because the account posted something about bloomberg being a very short man.

You would think this is a dumb strategy except for the fact that everyone in this stupid country is dumber than trump and come Super Tuesday every BeatTrump bluenomatterwho Democrat is going to vote for literally a guy who is in every way exactly like trump except for not saying covfefe on Twitter or whatever. I wish they would have nominated Biden instead because Amerika deserves whatever national embarrassment the general election debates would have been.
#283

marlax78 posted:

You're ascribing way too much to a Sanders presidency, that's not going to happen. if the class antagonisms were that severe there wouldn't be any super-profits left to share.


the US has twice followed the approach I described.

#284
#285

c_man posted:

I propose that domestic US politics be relegated to the alchoholism subforum


#286
#287
Drinking Some Alcohol is Good, Actually
#288

elias posted:

Do you guys remember 2016 when the Green Party ran a more communist ticket for the presidency than all the communist parties did



not sure i agree about e.g. Lamont Lilly being less Communist but Ajama Baraku is good.

#289

c_man posted:

c_man posted:

I propose that domestic US politics be relegated to the alchoholism subforum



this didn't work last time but I'm ready to try it again

#290

cars posted:

I've written plenty about this on this forum before, but the odds are nil of Sanders somehow overturning the complete domination of the United States federal government by private health insurers. Anything he proposed as President would be gutted by the industry's legislators before it passed, and anything that passed would be circumvented by their lawyers and accountants before it even began to be enforced. And if and when the government started to enforce whatever was left, the Supreme Court would overturn it. There will be no reform for health care in the United States, because there is not even a feigned recognition of the right to it, and nearly the entire force of the national legislature, courts and administrative bodies are arrayed against it, backed up by the heavily militarized U.S. police forces if it comes to that. Change will happen when Congress is marched out of their meeting house at gunpoint, or it won't happen at all.



He's said before his plan is to endorse progressive primary challengers and use his large base of support to put pressure on those who don't follow his policies. I don't know if he'll actually do that or if it'll be effective but I think it's a little premature to assume no change is possible under that scenario. We've had reforms without executing the entire congress before.

#291
To be fair FDR had Smedley Butler hold a gun to every single congressman's and senator's heads during votes on his bills.
#292
I hope they will only have to be removed at gunpoint and can be rehabilitated working among the people.
#293
President Sanders appears on national television:

“My fellow Americans, there are 24 senators standing in our way to completing Medicare for All. I ask the public to 'convince' these senators by any means necessary. To ensure a expedited process, every 24 hours a billionaire will be removed from this world until all senators have agreed to support our agenda. To show how serious I am, the first has already been taken care of. *Screen changes to a live feed of Jeff Bezos slouched over a toilet* You have 23 hours. Good luck”
#294
dsa = cia

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/02/14/ocasio-cortez-to-constituents-on-bolivian-coup-drop-dead/
#295
Eh, she did publicly condemn the coup though, after Ilhan but before anyone else.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.commondreams.org/news/2019/11/11/ocasio-cortez-joins-chorus-critics-condemning-coup-bolivia-forced-out-socialist%3famp

Edited by burritonegro ()

#296

pogfan1996 posted:

dsa = cia

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/02/14/ocasio-cortez-to-constituents-on-bolivian-coup-drop-dead/


a careful reading of this and a glance at how it's being promoted on twitter reveals it to be an unprincipled hit job. and i say that as someone who doesnt give a fuck about AOC. whatever nugget of truth might underpin this piece is indiscernible from the thinly veiled cancellation rhetoric

#297
agreed, i have zero faith in any given US political figure but "my little posse didn't get a meeting" is not exactly a bombshell condemnation and writing a hit piece that blistering based on only that is real spurious. plus the fact that she is one of the few in the US who has actually stood up and unequivocally called the coup a coup, months earlier which surely the author must have been aware of as a peace organizer? maybe i'm wrong and this guy has some big cred chops I'm unaware of but from a distance the whole thing stinks of The Trot Effect
#298
fwiw that article is by @cordeliers who last time i gave a shit was phil greaves kahina krew. it is sad to me that i know this and now i feel depressed, thanks a fucking bunch you assholes,
#299

marlax78 posted:

vimingok posted:

Watched a youtube about why Bernie is awesome and concluded most of these folks mean well. Sure a lot of their stances on foreign policy and really existing communism are incomplete and half-baked but that might be due to wanting palpable solutions they can participate in without feeling weird, instead of going nazbol upon discovering imperialist socdem reality like Orwell did in Wigan Pier. So probably a bit unfair to reduce (all of) them to 1st world proles clinging to faded gentility.

https://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/2nd-congress/ch07.htm

Lenin: Comrades, Serrati has said that we have not yet invented a sincérometre – that is a new French word that means an instrument for measuring sincerity. Such an instrument has not yet been invented. We do not need such an instrument, but we already have an instrument for judging trends.

...They are all sincere socialists, joking apart, but they are against the dictatorship of the proletariat!

... One does not need to look for a sincerometer and make jokes about it like Comrade Serrati in order to know the simple fact that there is and must be a struggle of tendencies. One tendency is the revolutionaries, the workers who have just come to us, the enemies of the labour aristocracy. The other tendency is the labour aristocracy, which in all the civilised countries is represented by the old leaders.



Speaking as a complete outsider to western politics and lay leftist, there seem to be unfolding conflicts *within* a 1st world labour aristocracy steadily crawling past the verge of crisis. Globalised capitalism is running at full tilt with nowhere to expand. If you agree with that, what will the stabilisation efforts of late stage empire look like? Trump is New Deal Christler for his fanatic base which so far has been stable enough. Bernie looks like an attempt to rebalance the Yankee/Cowboy detente with docile minorities but I don't see how that wouldn't be a contradiction-riddled disaster in practice. What are the channels of radicalisation, if any, for precariously underemployed urban white youth with no palpable direction for improvement?

#300

pogfan1996 posted:

dsa = cia

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/02/14/ocasio-cortez-to-constituents-on-bolivian-coup-drop-dead/



As a local staffer (who declined to introduce himself???) proudly informed us: “She refuses 99 percent of meeting requests from constituents.”

#301

tears posted:

fwiw that article is by @cordeliers who last time i gave a shit was phil greaves kahina krew. it is sad to me that i know this and now i feel depressed, thanks a fucking bunch you assholes,


i thought the name sounded familiar but couldn't place it, thank you!! cool my crazy detector is still properly calibrated, fucking nice

#302

vimingok posted:

marlax78 posted:

vimingok posted:

Watched a youtube about why Bernie is awesome and concluded most of these folks mean well. Sure a lot of their stances on foreign policy and really existing communism are incomplete and half-baked but that might be due to wanting palpable solutions they can participate in without feeling weird, instead of going nazbol upon discovering imperialist socdem reality like Orwell did in Wigan Pier. So probably a bit unfair to reduce (all of) them to 1st world proles clinging to faded gentility.

https://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/2nd-congress/ch07.htm

Lenin: Comrades, Serrati has said that we have not yet invented a sincérometre – that is a new French word that means an instrument for measuring sincerity. Such an instrument has not yet been invented. We do not need such an instrument, but we already have an instrument for judging trends.

...They are all sincere socialists, joking apart, but they are against the dictatorship of the proletariat!

... One does not need to look for a sincerometer and make jokes about it like Comrade Serrati in order to know the simple fact that there is and must be a struggle of tendencies. One tendency is the revolutionaries, the workers who have just come to us, the enemies of the labour aristocracy. The other tendency is the labour aristocracy, which in all the civilised countries is represented by the old leaders.

Speaking as a complete outsider to western politics and lay leftist, there seem to be unfolding conflicts *within* a 1st world labour aristocracy steadily crawling past the verge of crisis. Globalised capitalism is running at full tilt with nowhere to expand. If you agree with that, what will the stabilisation efforts of late stage empire look like? Trump is New Deal Christler for his fanatic base which so far has been stable enough. Bernie looks like an attempt to rebalance the Yankee/Cowboy detente with docile minorities but I don't see how that wouldn't be a contradiction-riddled disaster in practice. What are the channels of radicalisation, if any, for precariously underemployed urban white youth with no palpable direction for improvement?



imo, the Trump movement and the Sanders movement are two sides of the same reactionary coin within the labor aristocracy, where the former are Euro-Amerikan settler nationalists who are basically redundant in the era of globalized capital and transnational corporations. The good old days of the white nation dominating the north amerikan continent are over and the coastal Euro-American bourgeoisie know it. Making Euro-Amerika great again is in a liminal space, just wait. The latter still believe in "America" as some sort of great First World "nation" that can economically integrate regardless of nationality into one big multicultural empire with healthcare and those white nationalists are just "fly over states" who need to hurry up and die already. The Euro-American bourgeoisie know that dream is also over (thus the CIA seizing the democratic party and all the attempts to destroy the Sanders movement from the center). I don't think it matters whether Sanders wins or Trump wins, because the surplus value is gonna dry up for both sides of the labor aristocracy eventually and then the avenue for radicalization of urban white youth will be when your coastal city is being surrounded from the countryside by white nationalists.

#303

vimingok posted:

Speaking as a complete outsider to western politics and lay leftist, there seem to be unfolding conflicts *within* a 1st world labour aristocracy steadily crawling past the verge of crisis.



well i aint a westerner so i might be quite off but i am not sure about the extent or even existence of this crisis. i mean there are certain signs like trump getting elected, brexit, sanders' rising popularity, the clamor for healthcare, the gilets jaunes blah blah but trump served for like 4 years and he didnt go for any dramatic policy change or any large intensification of previous policies, brexit drama seems to have fizzled in confusion, sanders actually aint that popular compared to the internet hype, gilets jaunes keep protesting but contrary to how continuous their protests are the size or effects seem not that significant and healthcare isnt that much of a staple item. i mean there is no concern about rising food prices or shit that pertains to subsistence more directly like food or shelter or whatever. arab spring began with food riots and reactions to widespread unemployment for example. pre-wwii krauts were concerned with staple shit like food and clothing as well. i dont see any problem that dramatic in the west.

#304

sovnarkoman posted:

vimingok posted:

Speaking as a complete outsider to western politics and lay leftist, there seem to be unfolding conflicts *within* a 1st world labour aristocracy steadily crawling past the verge of crisis.

well i aint a westerner so i might be quite off but i am not sure about the extent or even existence of this crisis. i mean there are certain signs like trump getting elected, brexit, sanders' rising popularity, the clamor for healthcare, the gilets jaunes blah blah but trump served for like 4 years and he didnt go for any dramatic policy change or any large intensification of previous policies, brexit drama seems to have fizzled in confusion, sanders actually aint that popular compared to the internet hype, gilets jaunes keep protesting but contrary to how continuous their protests are the size or effects seem not that significant and healthcare isnt that much of a staple item. i mean there is no concern about rising food prices or shit that pertains to subsistence more directly like food or shelter or whatever. arab spring began with food riots and reactions to widespread unemployment for example. pre-wwii krauts were concerned with staple shit like food and clothing as well. i dont see any problem that dramatic in the west.



Both the left and the right labor aristocracy are discussing imminent threats like climate change and/or financial meltdown which will introduce those factors pretty quickly. They're just trying to stop it with trump or sanders or brexit or endless shrimp at red lobster

#305
i dont think the labor aristocrats have such long term insights. i mean commodity prices didnt rise one bit for it to register on the political radar of any first worlder parasite. the only repercussion they have seen so far is forest fires and shit and even then it doesnt seem to make more waves than compared to lack of healthcare or whatever
#306
the autonomic leg twitching of a bug that knows it is totally fucked but doesn't have a solution to the problem
#307

sovnarkoman posted:

vimingok posted:

Speaking as a complete outsider to western politics and lay leftist, there seem to be unfolding conflicts *within* a 1st world labour aristocracy steadily crawling past the verge of crisis.

well i aint a westerner so i might be quite off but i am not sure about the extent or even existence of this crisis. i mean there are certain signs like trump getting elected, brexit, sanders' rising popularity, the clamor for healthcare, the gilets jaunes blah blah but trump served for like 4 years and he didnt go for any dramatic policy change or any large intensification of previous policies, brexit drama seems to have fizzled in confusion, sanders actually aint that popular compared to the internet hype, gilets jaunes keep protesting but contrary to how continuous their protests are the size or effects seem not that significant and healthcare isnt that much of a staple item. i mean there is no concern about rising food prices or shit that pertains to subsistence more directly like food or shelter or whatever. arab spring began with food riots and reactions to widespread unemployment for example. pre-wwii krauts were concerned with staple shit like food and clothing as well. i dont see any problem that dramatic in the west.



Trump is setting the stage for domestic repression though, e.g. the judge appointments and rollback of the fiduciary duty thing. At this point stocks are driving the economy; last week Tesla skyrocketed overnight for no reason whatsoever. It's not just business as usual and there is an intractable polarisation in US politics that indicates growing within-class conflict. Obviously real anti-imperialism is absent but the question is whether these conditions are better for education to that effect than say those of 2011.