#41
Well yeah
#42

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

shriekingviolet posted:


le_nelson_mandela_face posted:


wots ur alternative tho

join an actual revolutionary socialist organization ¯\(._.)/¯



and then do what



VERY CAREFULLY

#43

cars posted:

or, Like, work with & within communities to help provide that which oppression denies their members, such as helping prisoners get books they want to read that have been de facto banned from prison libraries, demonstrating socialism as a living, breathing force in the world in the many places where capitalist crisis has allowed sympathy with revolutionary aims to bloom


#44
I think this sums up the nature of the DSA pretty well
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/jun/09.htm
#45

Ruzbihan posted:

shriekingviolet posted:
le_nelson_mandela_face posted:
wots ur alternative tho


join an actual revolutionary socialist organization ¯\(._.)/¯


The problem is that what we have in North Amerika are microsects, not mass parties or a base. In the absence of those we can’t do much beyond embarrassing bourgeois functionaries at dinner.


cars posted:

Ruzbihan posted:
The problem is that what we have in North Amerika are microsects, not mass parties or a base. In the absence of those we can’t do much beyond embarrassing bourgeois functionaries at dinner.



or, Like, work with & within communities to help provide that which oppression denies their members, such as helping prisoners get books they want to read that have been de facto banned from prison libraries, demonstrating socialism as a living, breathing force in the world in the many places where capitalist crisis has allowed sympathy with revolutionary aims to bloom. or you could donate to get a geriatric, who ghosted Matt Taibbi for being too radical, into a position where he re-endorses bombing Damascus into fish tank pebbles but still loses a national election in the United States, then contract fail aids and die, there’s a lot of options really.





what my friend Ruzbihan is getting at I think is that the number of self-proclaimed “revolutionary socialist” organizations actually working with and within communities in any meaningful sense is something approaching zero. not to denigrate the orgs who do, but there are plenty more running around touting the importance of mass-based work abstractly while doing little of it in practice, with maybe the bare bones of a blankets for the homeless drive (ie collectively donating thru a pre-existing ngo) type thing every seven months as fig leaf. excuse to write “conducts important mass-work!” in bullet-point on the back of the box.

while many of the orgs that work with and in the communities in a meaningful sense don’t call themselves “revolutionary socialist” at all. they just like, do it.

and, again, no grief to those who do such work and claim the title. im just saying there’s lotsa groupings that claim the title with no business doing so, and it can be a black hole for self-avowed socialists who want to contribute materially.

#46
for sure there's a poverty of good groups in most communities, the situation is often not great. it's still worthwhile to check in on who's active in your area, you might be pleasantly surprised to find some rad folks from the WWP or what have you.
#47
DSA.
#48

elias posted:

Ruzbihan posted:

shriekingviolet posted:
le_nelson_mandela_face posted:
wots ur alternative tho


join an actual revolutionary socialist organization ¯\(._.)/¯


The problem is that what we have in North Amerika are microsects, not mass parties or a base. In the absence of those we can’t do much beyond embarrassing bourgeois functionaries at dinner.

cars posted:

Ruzbihan posted:
The problem is that what we have in North Amerika are microsects, not mass parties or a base. In the absence of those we can’t do much beyond embarrassing bourgeois functionaries at dinner.



or, Like, work with & within communities to help provide that which oppression denies their members, such as helping prisoners get books they want to read that have been de facto banned from prison libraries, demonstrating socialism as a living, breathing force in the world in the many places where capitalist crisis has allowed sympathy with revolutionary aims to bloom. or you could donate to get a geriatric, who ghosted Matt Taibbi for being too radical, into a position where he re-endorses bombing Damascus into fish tank pebbles but still loses a national election in the United States, then contract fail aids and die, there’s a lot of options really.





what my friend Ruzbihan is getting at I think is that the number of self-proclaimed “revolutionary socialist” organizations actually working with and within communities in any meaningful sense is something approaching zero. not to denigrate the orgs who do, but there are plenty more running around touting the importance of mass-based work abstractly while doing little of it in practice, with maybe the bare bones of a blankets for the homeless drive (ie collectively donating thru a pre-existing ngo) type thing every seven months as fig leaf. excuse to write “conducts important mass-work!” in bullet-point on the back of the box.

while many of the orgs that work with and in the communities in a meaningful sense don’t call themselves “revolutionary socialist” at all. they just like, do it.

and, again, no grief to those who do such work and claim the title. im just saying there’s lotsa groupings that claim the title with no business doing so, and it can be a black hole for self-avowed socialists who want to contribute materially.



which doesn’t mean “we can’t do much beyond embarrassing bourgeois functionaries at dinner”. Imo.

#49
like, if you’re in a group & you want to help get books into prisons, you can figure out how to do it pretty easily.
#50
join my afro-socialist splinter group, DZA
#51

cars posted:

like, if you’re in a group & you want to help get books into prisons, you can figure out how to do it pretty easily.



Tattoo all of Settlers to your body and then get arrested for a felony.

#52
hmmm.. that would own
#53
previously on pri$on breakkk
#54
ive been reading what is to be done? and recognize that i try to justify being less active than i could be by trying to have a better grasp of revolutionary theory in my own life. i guess i've come to the conclusion that the most plausible next step (personally) is to figure out ways to work for others when i'm not enthusiastic about orgs in my area... like volunteer tutoring or serving people facing homelessness or helping with needle exchanges. prison service is a great idea too thanks
#55
#56
fuck lol
#57
"Have been through a thousand campaigns and movement groups since then, and can't believe i've been so dumb so often."

-J. Sakai
#58
i've heard about a couple attempts to "#occupy" ICE offices but I don't know how sustained any of that is gonna be
#59

Dimashq posted:

cars posted:

like, if you’re in a group & you want to help get books into prisons, you can figure out how to do it pretty easily.

Tattoo all of Settlers to your body and then get arrested for a felony.



Small theoretical issue, people may not want to look at your body, for hours on end

#60
myth busted
#61
it would be cool to tatoo an entire book on yourself, IMO.
#62
andrew sullivan just came out in favor of supporting the wall to stop The Crisis. this motherfucker was victimized by unjust immigration policy a decade ago but now he doesn't give a fuck. my mother's side is mostly italian and it used to irritate me that they couldn't draw a throughline between the suffering italians experienced and the ones mexicans suffer today. but reactionaries aren't motivated by consistency, or by moral sense - they're motivated by "i have this thing now and i'll kill anyone who wants it too"
#63

Dimashq posted:

Dimashq posted:

cars posted:

like, if you’re in a group & you want to help get books into prisons, you can figure out how to do it pretty easily.

Tattoo all of Settlers to your body and then get arrested for a felony.

Small theoretical issue, people may not want to look at your body, for hours on end



but would provide possibly the best answer in all of history to 'what does that tattoo mean'

#64
I'm out in the world right now, praxisting it up with hell of DSA members and people from some other orgs, and several of them are openly good / cool. Might do a write up about my experiences later, might not
#65
Update, had to listen to an extremely high 20 year old anarchist say the words "authoritarian communists" about 600 times in a row at 1am. I hate praxis now.
#66
someone said they were a real communist, not a tankie, not into state capitalism, when i asked what they thought about the soviet union the other night (same event as the other anecdote in the real life thread, check it out for a limited time only!) and so i get you swampman. i just did the french "pffft" a few times and said "c'est complètement fou!" a few times until he looked insecure about his position
#67
there was also a "communist" who interned for NBC news smh
#68

swampman posted:

Update, had to listen to an extremely high 20 year old anarchist say the words "authoritarian communists" about 600 times in a row at 1am. I hate praxis now.


owned

#69
I think the reason you dont hear a lot about rev. leftist orgs setting roots in communities is simply because its not sexy. Lots of locals of many orgs are doing a lot of community work tbh. Sure some are nothing more than reading groups they cant even get half of their membership to attend while still calling each other cadre, but the local I'm in has multiple union organizers, active unionization campaigns, housing attorneys fighting the state and landlords, developing black land trusts/banks, building multiple pipelines to train youth how to organize, and a 'private' security co-op. Try looking into the orgs around you and do things that build capacity instead of eschewing organizational work.

Edited by JohnBeige ()

#70
wow I can't believe goatstein is still posting
#71
libcom vs dsa, hell yeah

#72
how the hell you get 7 years for 2 misdemeanors. what does misdemeanor even mean anymore, getting felon-style jailtime for hurting pig feelins
#73
an anarkkkist harassed my friends out of my local dsa chapter because the socdem functionaries all brunch with him so this might turn in to a place where i gossip about how bad the dsa is. here's how bad it is: chicago's south side dsa branch is 95% white and all of their non-white member with one or two exceptions are stepping down or leaving the org.
#74
it's hard for me to feel bad for people who join DSA expecting something much different from what they'd find in any other Democrat interest group, except for kids, who have to learn from their mistakes sometimes.
#75
hold up, wait a moment, row back a sec, the dsa is not good, actually
#76
we must secure the existence of our healthcare and free education for white children
#77
I think the problem with DSA is probably that...its members by and large, dont have anything at stake and dont want to do anything illegal and they don't particularly "like" poor people
#78
chicago dsa has a jazz band.
#79
Their problem is that they're people who have no idea what it actually means to be poor. They really just don't get it.
#80
i have grown to respect the more electoral / jacobin angle DSA activists because they have a pretty clear picture of what they consider success and they put in a lot of work to make it happen. they joined a reformist organization and do reformist things. a lot of the more left groupings (edit: within DSA) are filled with lunatics. if you joined a reformist organization to rail against "electoralism" then you probably skipped the brochure.