#881

cars posted:

this isnt meant as part of this debate, just wanted to post this because 火車 / Holy Shit Piss



#882
i mean, the rate of hospitalization & deaths for vaccinated vs unvaccinated is pretty stark which makes saying "the vaccines don't work" pretty loony even if you accept the premise that breakthrough transmission for vaccinated people is relatively high. i think what you're seeing is just how much more contagious delta is compared to the OG covid last year, especially for the half of the country that won't get the stupid fucking vaccine.
#883
pharma is in the game to make money, and they've been wildly successful so far with this pandemic, but at the end of the day the capitalist system is strongly interested in trying to end this emergency and go back to an efficient M-C-M loop with solid supply chains extracting wealth from their global markets asap
#884

liceo posted:

shapes posted:

because even a history of CIA chicanery and malicious negligence from pharm companies does not erase the desire to prevent needless communicable disease among the people.

fwiw it doesn't particularly seem like the covid vaccine actually does this (and it definitely will not continue to) and is instead proving to be far more a behavioral gesture of submission (with absolutely unknown future health consequences) than an actually beneficial medical intervention.


ladies and gentlemen, professor joe rogan!!

#885

liceo posted:

fwiw it doesn't particularly seem like the covid vaccine actually does this (and it definitely will not continue to) and is instead proving to be far more a behavioral gesture of submission (with absolutely unknown future health consequences) than an actually beneficial medical intervention.



come on man.

#886
like if you don't want to get vaccinated i mean... that action is dumb and immoral and irresponsible to your loved ones and objectively anti-socialist, but i won't rub your nose in it unless you try to pretend it makes you John Galt, i think that's fair
#887
#888
I hate the vaccine passport and think it's bad. There's tons more police out in Paris patrolling, I saw them with my own eyes.

In September getting tested will no longer be free for French citizens which just means nobody's going to get tested any more - mass testing is the only actual way to halt transmission.

The vaccine does appear to work though, I read a bunch about it, I don't know how anybody can think it doesn't work if they've looked at the numbers. I read a bunch of VAERS reports and stuff and didn't really find it credible, it was full of stuff like this:


So I got a vaccine the other day. Aside from not being able to see out of my left eye and my feet turning into cloven hooves I feel fine. I probably wouldn't have got it if it wasn't mandated though.
#889
imo it is bad when vaccine discussion on the irony maoist forum turns into namecalling because the liberal line on vaccines is obviously genocidal and letting that run is bad. there's really not a left wing space for critical vaccine discussion to happen that isn't completely off the wall. let a hundred flowers bloom unless they're trotskyist and all that

Edited by pogfan1996 ()

#890
#891
dta, let a hundred variants bloom
#892
i don't take issue with the overall efficacy of the vaccines because they were rolled out so poorly it was laughable. i do believe in the vaccinated vs unvaccinated numbers, so yeh, you should get vaccine if you care about amerikkka, but liceo was talking cure/treatment, which is definitely not on the table as far as i've read and would probably be too soon to say anyways.
#893
let's give a hand to the rona for doing more to destroy ameriKKKa than any maoist group did in the year of our lord 2020
#894

pogfan1996 posted:

imo it is bad when vaccine discussion on the irony maoist forum turns into namecalling because the liberal line on vaccines is obviously genocidal and letting that run is bad. there's really not a left wing space for critical vaccine discussion to happen that isn't completely off the wall. let a hundred flowers bloom unless they're trotskyist and all that


it's pathetic to have to waste time on a looney toons routine arguing about efficacy of the scientifically proven medical practice of vaccination before anyone can move on to the grown up business of examining how the bourgeois state has systematically caused mass death and catastrophe by sabotaging the process through their own petty power jockeying and ideologically driven inefficiencies. it's extremely disappointing to have to entertain that bullshit here and completely worthy of contempt and insults.

capitalism fucking up containment and vaccination, and using that catastrophe as an opportunistic excuse to further the security state, doesn't invalidate the principles of basic medical science any more than capitalism cooking the planet invalidates the principles of basic chemistry. and wasting words having to say that is giving me a migraine

#895
sure, you can call me a privileged parasite labour aristocrat asshole because i got to work from home for a year but i was just raring back letting the virus do the work
#896
i dont give a shit about vaccine efficacy i want to TALK ABOUT VIRUS AMPLIFICATION
#897

karphead posted:

VIRUS AMPLIFICATION


the united states of america is a giant megaphone playing


on a loop until it shakes the planet apart

#898
i've been on the job less than a month and people have been getting sick in the office but it's because of a "yearly thing" or "just a cold" or "allergies" - i dont want to hear any more moral platitudes, amerikkka gets what it deserves, which is death
#899
sure, they might really be "allergies" or "just a cold" or "a yearly thing" but do you really want to bet against that by getting vaccinated?
#900
no, no u dont
#901
#902

shriekingviolet posted:

it's pathetic to have to waste time on a looney toons routine arguing about efficacy of the scientifically proven medical practice of vaccination


You probably meant this in a rhetorical way but no one is arguing against vaccines tout court.

#903
vaccines are shit coz they are saving the lives of first worlders, thus contributing to the destruction of humanity hth OP
#904

sovnarkoman posted:

vaccines are shit coz they are saving the lives of first worlders, thus contributing to the destruction of humanity hth OP



thank you, someone that gets it

#905

Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia posted:

ladies and gentlemen, professor joe rogan!!


you have to be fucking kidding me

#906
everybody just calm down
#907
dont make me use the lathe emoticon against thee
#908
let's just agree that as long as we are all healthy (aka we believe in maoist thought) that everyone else dying is ok
#909
the entire reason i brought up corona virus in the corona virus thread is to talk about how it is bolstering fascist states. this turned into a conversation about vaccine efficacy and the conversation deteriorated, which is exactly what Gssh posted about.

i tried talking about points that were addressed to me and was insulted and nobody but basically pogfan is even having a conversation anymore. for the record, i've never listened to or watched a single thing produced by joe fucking rogan. i said that it's too soon to tell what's going on with the vaccine but that it doesn't seem like it's working anymore, showed one example of a highly vaccinated country who now says its a futile, and gave an example of one treatment that is being tested in (guess where?) a periphery country.

i'll say it again: you cannot dispute the fact that real treatment (as in curing covid once it infects you) has been a facet of the response. that's the point i was trying to make in tandem to the fact that the vaccine efficacy is factually waning with new variants and that this is a trend that is more likely to continue than not.

can you honestly sit there and tell me in good faith that i am behaving like a loser right-wing podcaster while i am one of the only people itt who has not lost their temper and been reactionary?

it is completely fine for a communist to criticize the medical industry and completely fine for one to question a medical intervention that has been so unbelievably mediated by the state, especially when that person is not freaking out and is obviously trying to have conversations with people.

this feels like a fucking twitter thread now
#910

cars posted:

like if you don't want to get vaccinated i mean... that action is dumb and immoral and irresponsible to your loved ones and objectively anti-socialist, but i won't rub your nose in it unless you try to pretend it makes you John Galt, i think that's fair



this is exactly what i am fucking talking about with regard to social policing cars! seriously what the fuck is that! calling me anti-socialist because you thought i might not be vaccinated? what kind of weird social shaming is that? i have the fucking vaccine, have had it for a few months! god what a string of shots below the belt...

#911
lmao
#912
vaccines are a conspiracy to force you to bend the knee to poster cars and Big Comedy Marxist Webforum
#913

liceo posted:

fwiw it doesn't particularly seem like the covid vaccine actually does this (and it definitely will not continue to) and is instead proving to be far more a behavioral gesture of submission (with absolutely unknown future health consequences) than an actually beneficial medical intervention.



I'm glad you feel shame over this because you should and i hope it will improve you as a person.

#914
Casting vaccination as some sort of nebulous form of behavioral discipline while lying about its efficacy is also objectively anti-socialist, while making the insinuations you're making about the health risks of getting vaccinated vs. not getting vaccinated is dumb, immoral, tremendously irresponsible and also anti-socialist. Idk maybe go to Cuba and try to tell them otherwise dude, see how far that gets you.
#915
i don't feel any shame over anything whatsoever and i don't appreciate being brow-beaten by someone who i was having a conversation with, especially because i know and respect your writing and input
#916
if anyone else was posting such bad-faith, baseless garbage they would wind up in ifap
#917
i guess i'll refer back to this as the bulk of my response because I agree with all of it.

shriekingviolet posted:

it's pathetic to have to waste time on a looney toons routine arguing about efficacy of the scientifically proven medical practice of vaccination before anyone can move on to the grown up business of examining how the bourgeois state has systematically caused mass death and catastrophe by sabotaging the process through their own petty power jockeying and ideologically driven inefficiencies. it's extremely disappointing to have to entertain that bullshit here and completely worthy of contempt and insults.

capitalism fucking up containment and vaccination, and using that catastrophe as an opportunistic excuse to further the security state, doesn't invalidate the principles of basic medical science any more than capitalism cooking the planet invalidates the principles of basic chemistry. and wasting words having to say that is giving me a migraine



fwiw to run across this stuff here is not entirely surprising to me but having it come from you, in the middle of what was otherwise a worthwhile discussion, is surprising, disappointing and intensely aggravating. please understand at least that i am identifying actions and statements as dumb, irresponsible, etc., not people, and whether or not you consider that a rhetorical ploy, there is a significant difference between the two for me. That's why i am not nearly as hesitant to say things like that about actions and statements whether or not i'm Online.

#918

liceo posted:

this feels like a fucking twitter thread now



it absolutely does and that sucks but you should probably trust the multiple people IDing your anti-vaccination post as the reason why.

#919
you stopped having a worthwhile discussion a page and a half ago and instead have been using shame, insults, and brow-beating to try and prove that i'm not a socialist or something else ridiculous because you had assumptions about my offline behavior that you don't agree with (which were in fact wrong). that is horrible posting and i really don't appreciate it.
#920

cars posted:

IDing your anti-vaccination post


i never even said i was outright against the vaccine! that's why this is so ridiculous cars! i was criticizing it and trying to talk about how cures have not been an aspect of this! christ!