#201
i do wonder what the vetting process is on cia puppets is like. do they prefer that this guaido guy is sort of a nobody so that they can better mold him? but then there's all this stuff about america being disappointed by how little military defections there has been, which seems an obvious outcome if he has minimal inbuilt popularity. i'd like to know the exact logic behind the move of promoting guaido rather than some other oppositional figure.

Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()

#202

Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:

i do wonder what the vetting process is on cia puppets is like. do they prefer that this guaido guy is sort of a nobody so that they can better mold him? but then there's all this stuff about america being disappointed by how little military defections there has been, which seems obvious if he has minimal inbuilt popularity. i'd like to know the exact logic behind the move of promoting guaido rather than some other oppositional figure.



Its possible that he just has good enough relations with the opposition members closest to the U.S, he's likely had those ties and plans for a coup since his time in the States. Its possible that the U.S asked the little cabal of yankee collaboraters to produce a figurehead they put him forth out of favoritism or for their own internal reasons.

#203
#204

swampman posted:



i think guaido honestly saw some kind of civil war erupting by now, with himself as the opposition commander. there's a sick kind of desperation to everything he does at the moment. i imagine his handlers are none too impressed to be honest.

#205
attended the hands off venezuela protest this weekend. the turnout was very good but also not that good. whereas the hands off syria protest i went to had like 20 people there this one had hundreds. and i guess since it was scheduled so far in advance they were able to cordon off all kinds of big streets right through downtown for the march, meaning thousands of bypassers were exposed to it, people everywhere were filming it on their phones and so on, and it made an impression, the crowd when marching was a couple blocks long. lots of speakers both before the march and after including folks from venezuela haiti bolivia colombia and honduras. they also had speakers from the new afrikan black panther party, max blumenthal, etc. and all in all it was quite a success for what it was: awareness plus being something people here or in venezuela or whatever can point to in order to claim the american people in their country are resisting imperialism or whatever.

the reason why i say the turn out was also not good is because as we went through the speakers post-march they periodically announced the bus going back to new york is here, the bus going back to new jersey is here, the bus going back to boston is here, etc. meaning that basically psl helped bus in many activists from various out of town branches, which is cool... but which means there probably wasnt as much engagement from peolpe not already in the struggle as it might have looked like... and i really feel like they couldve done way better w/ outreach, you got someone like max blumenthal, he spoke before and after the march and did a fun "juan guido heyy im couping here" bit, ben norton was also there, brian becker, and while these people did mention it on twitter like once ahead of time i think if the goal was really to bring in just average politically awake people instad of mostly psl party members then they couldve had max tweeting about it every so often for weeks ahead of time, "just 14 more days until the big dc protest" and so on... i just feel like normal politically aware peolpe against this thing probably didnt know it was happening until they started seeing the footage of the march come out.

one really funny thing is that when i got there a lady was giving me a trot paper, the militant, and i knew it was trot but i took it and talked to her a bit anyway... she seemed fine and was talking about how they were doing a trip down to cuba, she said the aggression against venezuela was "all about cuba" (ehh not really) but then as i walked away she betrayed herself a little finally, she said "We can do so much better than maduro and assad." lol. anyway apparently these trots love cuba which surprised me a little. i opened the paper and there was a front page article about how ilhan omar is anti-semitic and it was bad people defended her, and there was another article right next to it also about anti-semitism, which within the text of the article claimed there is NOT a rise in racism and hate crimes and white supremacy. originally id been thinking of leaving the paper in a bus or something for someone to pick up but at that point i just threw it in the recycling bin
#206
at this point you have to wonder if the US will take out guaidó themselves to limit their culpability
#207
PSL scheduling their own solo rally 2 weeks before UNAC was scheduled to hold their march against NATOs DC meeting seems a little petty to me. The late notice call is probably why turnout was largely party
#208
Maybe although, to me on like Feb 1 when I first heard about the March 16 date, i didnt even know if Venezuela as we know it would still exist by that time, so it seemed like a dangerously large amount of notice. but also i only knew it was happening at all because Im on the PSL mailing list and was looking for it, and then i had to actively seek out the starting time because a lot of the announcements i saw as time went on just had the date/place with no time given. I cant claim to know anything about the anti NATO march, maybe that wouldve dovetailed very well with this action, some good synchronicity, but i do think we urgently needed not just any action but specifically one with Hands Off Venezuela as the headline, and that they overall did a great job w/ this, just could have used some of the public figure speakers (like Jill Stein appeared via video for example) doing some more extensive public pushing for the event
#209
#210

ilmdge posted:

anyway apparently these trots love cuba



Honestly I think Cuba resiliency has made it unimpeachable on the left--most trot groups are pro Cuba now I would guess, or at least to scared to openly criticize it. Looks like those guys are big into defending Israel as well.

Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:

i do wonder what the vetting process is on cia puppets is like. do they prefer that this guaido guy is sort of a nobody so that they can better mold him? but then there's all this stuff about america being disappointed by how little military defections there has been, which seems an obvious outcome if he has minimal inbuilt popularity. i'd like to know the exact logic behind the move of promoting guaido rather than some other oppositional figure.



I'm sure they wanted a general or other high ranking military figure, but no one was disloyal enough. Perez was probably the second choice as a movie star but he leaned into the role a little too hard and got his shit stomped. Guaido must be way down their list--the dude was an elected official for only four years and no one had even heard of him. It would be like trying to do a coup in America lead by Jon Ossoff. Doesn't stop W*k*pedia from having him listed as acting president of Venezuela lol

#211
wokepedia
#212
the militant, that's swp
#213
jesus christ bolsonaro looks like shit constantly.
#214
Self-Appointed Interim Venezuelan President Cannot Seem To Evict Unruly Tenant: A Report
#215

insta_gramsci posted:

Self-Appointed Interim Venezuelan President Cannot Seem To Evict Unruly Tenant: A Report


lol reminds me of louis theroux' vid in south africa

#216

Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:

i do wonder what the vetting process is on cia puppets is like. do they prefer that this guaido guy is sort of a nobody so that they can better mold him? but then there's all this stuff about america being disappointed by how little military defections there has been, which seems an obvious outcome if he has minimal inbuilt popularity. i'd like to know the exact logic behind the move of promoting guaido rather than some other oppositional figure.



during the soft coup against PT bolsonaro dedicated his remarks in the chamber of deputies to brilhante ustra. shit like that is probably all it takes to qualify

#217

rolaids posted:

Doesn't stop W*k*pedia from having him listed as acting president of Venezuela lol



More like OVERacting president! Two thumbs down from me!!!

#218
what are some good sources on living conditions for the average person in present day venezuela? i don't feel like i can take either reuters or telesur at their word
#219
the "average person" isnt necessarily a useful metric. Theres a broad distribution of people with varying class character and access to resources, international support, etc. What would be more useful, imo, would be information about the barriers to access to basic necessities, eg due to international sanctions etc, as well as how these resources are managed and distributed, and how any shortcomings are dealt with. This is what would describe the class relations facing the venezuelan proletariat.
#220
good point "the average person" is very much a figure of liberal rhetoric
#221
voids the discussion of any class character
#222
Probably already posted this someone but I thought this was a useful one wrt food at least. https://monthlyreview.org/2018/06/01/the-politics-of-food-in-venezuela/
#223
being a marxist sure does take a lot more legwork than being a radical liberal (of any stripe)
#224
https://venezuelanalysis.com if you don’t read it already. it reports on movements that critically engage with the chavista project, like the campesinos and the communes. obviously their coverage lately focuses more on u.s. meddling bc even those movements largely see that as the primary contradiction at the moment
#225

#226
Though portrayed in the media as nationwide, the actions were largely limited to the wealthiest areas of a few cities, and ranged from street barricades and vandalism to picnics and barbecues to candlelight vigils to physical assaults to the hurling of human shit.
#227
so everything i'd intuited about the situation in venezuela is in its broad outlines correct and i don't need to worry that left-coms anarchists and radlibs have some moral trump card they keep secret to gloat about how delusional we are?
#228
if you just believe the exact opposite of what the State Department says, regardless of radlibs’ opinions, you will be correct 99% of the time and have the moral high ground 100%
#229

jansenist_drugstore posted:

insta_gramsci posted:


Self-Appointed Interim Venezuelan President Cannot Seem To Evict Unruly Tenant: A Report


lol reminds me of louis theroux' vid in south africa


My favorite person in that was the boss of the Red Ants private rent-a-mob force that looked like he hadn't slept in three days.

#230

psychicdriver posted:

being a marxist sure does take a lot more legwork than being a radical liberal (of any stripe)



imo it doesn't, because Marxists can look at history and take their Ws

#231

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-idUSKCN1QX0OB

The brutal dictatorship of Venezuela just letting a patriot like Guaido walk free and talk about couping the government... makes you wonder what's going on in that madman Maduro's head sometimes
#232

psychicdriver posted:

so everything i'd intuited about the situation in venezuela is in its broad outlines correct and i don't need to worry that left-coms anarchists and radlibs have some moral trump card they keep secret to gloat about how delusional we are?


There's a very likely chance, from my gringo cant-speak-spanish research, that the PSUV-majority incumbent National Assembly did violate the constitution by stacking the Supreme Court before an opposition-majority National Assembly was officially put into office. It would do you good to also know that the PSUV-majority elected Supreme Court then vetoed "democratic" opposition policies, like de facto privatizing social housing and cooperative farms, then having the government pay debts to the landlords/real estate guys. Here's one of them: https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/11965

Edited by serafiym ()

#233

serafiym posted:

the PSUV-majority elected Supreme Court then vetoed "democratic" opposition policies, like de facto privatizing social housing and cooperative farms, then having the government pay debts to the landlords/real estate guys. Here's one of them: https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/11965



so it was democratic and they did the right thing?

#234

psychicdriver posted:

serafiym posted:

the PSUV-majority elected Supreme Court then vetoed "democratic" opposition policies, like de facto privatizing social housing and cooperative farms, then having the government pay debts to the landlords/real estate guys. Here's one of them: https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/11965

so it was democratic and they did the right thing?


if you have a heart and soul, yes. however i cannot guarantee your anarchist/trotskyist interlocutors will possess these things.

#235
from that monster of an alan macleod ama:
"The proper distinction between those two words is best left to people who know a whole lot more about this than I do. My general understanding is that "imperialism" basically means "foreign intervention that is done for bad reasons"."
#236
hoo boy this is a fun question to ask
how much stock should i put into what comes out of the office of the united nations high commissioner of human rights
#237
aah, it would seem constanignoble wrote something pretty substantial about the u.n. in general
#238

psychicdriver posted:

how much stock should i put into what comes out of the office of the united nations high commissioner of human rights


depends how diverse you want your portfolio to be

#239
good fucking answer
#240
the ven government just banned guaido from standing in an election lol