#481
mcraven is some lastname lol
#482
quoth the mcraven, "revoke more"
#483
admiral william hm craven
#484
bill mckracken
#485
that's so mcraven
#486
muh'craven
#487
Anyone find it suspicious that the media fixation on Mollie Tibbet’s disappearance for a month straight ended up being a murder perpetrated by an “illegal immigrant”? I mean people go missing all the time, but this was like national news for weeks.
#488
trump's legal trouble is the product of a fight between different factions of america's ruling class who disagree over what form of corruption it is most prudent to subject the american people and the world to when the proles are near breaking point in the current late-stage capitalist moment, and the empire is in decline.

some members of the ruling class prefer the brunch kween's cautious, means tested brutalisation of US minorities, the poor, and foreign states. they would like to temper this form of corruption with meaningless, token scraps thrown to us, the shitheads, as and when the need arises. others support the apocalyptic scorched earth approach of the large adult son party. the fbi is functioning as an impartial body aiming to scientifically prove or disprove the relative merits of each.

this is the correct take and it is important to keep this in mind whenever somebody says trump's impeachment (lol) will actually mean anything as we continue our slide into the abyss.
#489
my heuristic's that the FBI represents its own class interest first, and the bourgeoisie's second. w/ the 60s FBI history of how the FBI was basically picking presidents, mark felt publicly knocking off nixon, and some agency taking out JFK, and serving as the home coordinator of white national counter-revolution. the counter-rev was priority #1 and the state-lumpen FBI needed the power to see it thru. this was the same era that the lumpen military class was so fattened w/hueys and soldiers that it bankrupted its "own" bourgeoisie. in this current era the FBI's class has been empowered from the military on down, w/ post-9/11 new imperial occupations. we understand that matériel flows from periphery back home to the police, not to the foundries and back to the market, so as with the social control of other strategic resources. if the FBI is picking presidents again, undoing bourgeois elections, it reflects their class power in this era. but i dunno, it's just a framework not a theory.
#490

toyotathon posted:

the counter-rev was priority #1 and the state-lumpen FBI needed the power to see it thru. this was the same era that the lumpen military class was so fattened w/hueys and soldiers that it bankrupted its "own" bourgeoisie.


this makes a good point that i often forget, that the military is its own organization beside/within the state, and it is bad to forget this

#491

drwhat posted:

toyotathon posted:

the counter-rev was priority #1 and the state-lumpen FBI needed the power to see it thru. this was the same era that the lumpen military class was so fattened w/hueys and soldiers that it bankrupted its "own" bourgeoisie.

this makes a good point that i often forget, that the military is its own organization beside/within the state, and it is bad to forget this



ya this is what is surprisingly hard to get other people to realise, that the military is effectively a shadow state and operates with bloodthirsty disregard no matter who is in the white house

#492
how could anyone forget that important lesson i learned two decades ago from the x-files?
#493
What do the state lumpen have against Trump? I think of Trump as already being the white national answer to “neoliberalism” and potential proletarianization, so how do the state lumpen differ from lumpen in, for instance, the fly over states?
#494

ghostpinballer posted:

as we continue our slide into the abyss.


YEAR TWO: Cha Cha Slide into the abyss

#495

dimashq posted:

Anyone find it suspicious that the media fixation on Mollie Tibbet’s disappearance for a month straight ended up being a murder perpetrated by an “illegal immigrant”? I mean people go missing all the time, but this was like national news for weeks.


Exactly my thought the moment i saw the story. An illegal immigrant has "confessed" to police, has he? I see...

#496

dimashq posted:

What do the state lumpen have against Trump? I think of Trump as already being the white national answer to “neoliberalism” and potential proletarianization, so how do the state lumpen differ from lumpen in, for instance, the fly over states?



if the FBI felt like it could king-make perpetually, i think it'd be happy. i dunno why the bourgeoisie would want to subvert the results of their own election. they invest a lot of potential yacht fuel in the presidential elections, to just allow some cops to delegitimize them for a generation. i think the FBI sensed a political opening thru some dimwit democrats, like it got in '73. i confess to really not understanding any of the scandal they're designing, but also if pressed i don't think most resistance libs understand it much either. just the potential end result, that the FBI does them a solid and puts blue team in charge. just trying to look at the difference of the alliance of dems with the FBI, which crosses a class boundary, than say, dems with like never-trump republicans which stays within bourgeois politics.

edit-- sorry for the Take here's a pic

Edited by toyotathon ()

#497
does individual-1 secretly mean donald trump. these legal documents are indecipherable
#498

toyotathon posted:


lol at that flimsy paper thin obfuscation. gonna be a bumper crop of conspiracy theories this year about who is the real Individual-1, Secret President of the United States

#499
Place your bets, get in on the bleeding edge of what will be hot and new in the conspiracy scene

1) resurgence in end times conspiracy theories that Obama is the antichrist and will never leave office: Individual-1 is Secret Eternal President Barack Obama

2) pizzagate clinton murders deep state conspiracies by people who don't understand what the deep state is: FBI wanted Hillary to win so obviously they pledged allegiance to her, codename Individual-1

3)

4) it was me, Austin. it was me all along.
#500
the only plausible conspiracy to me is what if trump is an agent of Frito-Lay who only ran for president to increase the market visibility of the freaking Cheeto llfoa
#501
John McCain is dead!

#502
john mccain, the maverick, the middle ground, the voice of reason in these difficult times... also that guy who bombed a bunch of innocent people... rest in pepperonis
#503
a toast
#504
o man there are gon be so many good podcasts this week
#505
Lieutenant Senator John McCain sits upright in his coffin as it rockets through the sky. From the ground, he could be mistaken for Snoopy flying his doghouse. But not up close. Up close you see every flap of loose, grey skin rippling and tearing. Is that a dashing red pilot's scarf flowing in the wind behind him? No, that's the macerated brain tissue draining out his skull and streaming away. He’s unrecognizable if not for his beady eyes and lip-less scowl.

...back at the command center, the event plays out on the big radar screen. The technicians on the floor, their commanders and generals, the dignitaries and VIPs up in the gallery, they’re all dogs in costume. On the screen, the swastika moves along the vector line towards the glowing red circle labeled “BRAIN DEATH”. The two symbols meet, then disappear, and the system plays a big, wet kissing sound and all the dogs start barking and howling.
#506

toyotathon posted:

dimashq posted:
What do the state lumpen have against Trump? I think of Trump as already being the white national answer to “neoliberalism” and potential proletarianization, so how do the state lumpen differ from lumpen in, for instance, the fly over states?



if the FBI felt like it could king-make perpetually, i think it'd be happy. i dunno why the bourgeoisie would want to subvert the results of their own election. they invest a lot of potential yacht fuel in the presidential elections, to just allow some cops to delegitimize them for a generation. i think the FBI sensed a political opening thru some dimwit democrats, like it got in '73. i confess to really not understanding any of the scandal they're designing, but also if pressed i don't think most resistance libs understand it much either. just the potential end result, that the FBI does them a solid and puts blue team in charge. just trying to look at the difference of the alliance of dems with the FBI, which crosses a class boundary, than say, dems with like never-trump republicans which stays within bourgeois politics.

edit-- sorry for the Take here's a pic


Edited by toyotathon (Aug. 23, 2018 06:21:54)



at this point, figuring out the Alphabet Boys' motivations is an exercise in hermeneutics, but i honestly feel like the answer is much simpler and much more complex, and definitely much, much dumber

on a pure policy/structural level, the FBI and CIA should love working with Trump. he would make it legal to run down BLM activists in cars if he could. he would deport NFL players for not standing during the anthem. and while i don't think he has the sheer, limitless appetite for "foreign intervention" that Clinton does, he clearly doesn't have a problem with it and would gladly leave all that to the Pentagon and State Department as long as they gave him some victories to crow about.

i suspect that this is really about the US failing in Ukraine and Syria... ESPECIALLY Syria. the post-9/11 years have been as much about the empire experimenting with different means of empire-building. the Iraq Invasion was another stab at the old way of doing things -- actually occupying a country with troops on the ground. it was such a destabilizing event in American politics that it lead to a black man named Barack Hussein Obama being elected President. the Libya Invasion, otoh, was a roaring success, and showed a clear way forward: get a bunch of surplus jihadists from Gulf countries, give them weapons and CIA training, aim them in your target's general direction, call them a "liberation movement" and start carpet bombing in the name of humanitarianism. no fuss, no coffins with American flags flying home, fawning bi-partisan support, a sycophantic media cheering the whole time. that's what they tried to do in Syria, and it absolutely did not work. as messy as the Iraq Invasion was, they got rid of Saddam Hussein. Syria was the biggest setback for US foreign policy since Vietnam.

and we can debate how much Russian intervention saved Assad's bacon, but i guarantee you that they're sitting in their CIA offices positively fuming, telling anyone that'll listen that Operation Assad Must Go would have 100% succeeded had it not been for Russia. and with Ukraine, that's two plots foiled, two major setbacks, two bunches of careers that have stalled.

so now you tell everyone in the Georgetown alum meetings, your contacts in the press, your foreign think tank buds that you drink with in K-Street bars: Putin is no longer just a Yeltsin capo turned strongman, he's now a James Bond Villain, the octopus whose tentacles reach everywhere. i doubt that even they imagined it would turn into what it is now, with Paul Krugman speculating that the "simplest explanation" that Lindsey Graham now supports Trump is "the Russians have kompromat on him." just like i doubt that the Koch Brothers never quite imagined the depths of lunacy that the Tea Party would unleash. but hey, at least they're on message.

if Trump had just been a little bit more cunning, he probably would have been fine. even if the Alpha Boys thought the Russians threw the election for him (and who knows what they actually think anymore), Trump could have played ball, gone all 'tough guy' on Russia, try to regroup on Syria (or Venezuela, or Cuba, or any other pet projects), and they would have gotten over it.

but Trump is too goddamn stupid to play along, too emotionally stunted to entertain even the notion that his election was anything but a Flawless Victory. and it's that refusal to play along, to defer and revere like every other president the last 30+ years, THAT is what they cannot stand, more than any specific policy.

#507
I think the proximate cause is that the CIA/FBI did their normal bullshit around a presidential election with a candidate that comes up too fast or in too weird a way for them to housetrain, stuff that probably usually leads to the new president in a closed-door meeting with agency chiefs learning who runs Washington and what's important to say or not say.

Instead, after that closed-door meeting, Trump called them a bunch of liars, in public, which is something no one in his position has ever done, and he kept doing it and never stopped. Like, I don't think the underlying agenda of the deep state has changed so much as they suddenly found themselves in a headline turf war with a rival criminal gang in Washington, when they probably thought they were going to bring the new administration's public statements to heel in its first six months.
#508
yeah i think the turning point was early on when out of frustration the agencies threatened to release the "russian" tape of hookers pissing on trump and he just said "ha ha go ahead i will just say its fake news made in the computer"
#509
what s the dialectical materialist analysis of whether the pisstape exists or not
#510
the Probably-but-also-Who-Cares dialectic
#511

Petrol posted:

the Probably-but-also-Who-Cares dialectic


thesis: probably
antithesis: who cares
synthesis: DYTD

#512
I don't think that tape exists, and I think its presence in that file is part of the evidence that the guy who put it together is a confidence artist, deluded or both. The Democrats and a bunch of Democrat-friendly reporters apparently had their hands on the file for a long time, as it was commissioned as oppo research by the Democrats, and they didn't put it out into the news cycle when there was a chance it might have swung the election. In my opinion, it was because they looked through the file and thought that the believable claims in it wouldn't bother people enough to matter, while the more shocking and provocative stuff seemed somewhere between unsupported/highly unlikely and downright impossible.

All of that changed when the CIA & FBI "notified" Obama and Trump in closed-door meetings that the file was "about to be released", which gave Buzzfeed and other outlets the go-ahead to publish its most dubious claims as truth, because that was when news outlets knew some of the most powerful groups in Washington, groups that a president of either party would need to depend upon to do their job, wouldn't challenge those claims, however ridiculous, and would probably tacitly support them. In other words, the file was created as Clinton-campaign opposition research, it failed utterly in that regard, and then the CIA, FBI and company used the file to attack Trump, because a lot of people in the U.S. news press were already familiar with it behind the scenes, and those people understood that a file full of garbage would be laughed off if it were leaked by the Democrats during Clinton's campaign but would be taken seriously if it were pushed by the intelligence & security agencies and their retired luminaries, because they form a persistent and established power in Washington that is a lot more influential and difficult to challenge than even the Democratic Party establishment.
#513
nate silver puts the odds of the piss tape existing at only 32.6%
#514
Schrödinger's Pisstape
#515
The FBI and the CIA have a really interesting history, and most of their intra-class schisms derive from strategic disagreements in how best to operate their barbaric conquest. I think the main opposition, when it really comes down to it, is how Trump isn't going to go full war-hawk on Russia for whatever reason. The RAND Corporation and various other mucky mucks in the industrial-military-intelligence complex are dead set that maintaining control over Ukraine is how to ultimately control Russia.
#516
longtime listeners will recall i am a connoisseur of terrible bullshit and to that end i am watching Active Measures, a documentary about the trump russia conspiracy. it's a real hodgepodge that heavily relies on the viewer believing from the outset the unstated premise that america is good and pure, and russia the opposite.

my favourite thing now with this russia stuff is to just imagine its actually true. imagine russia actually took over the republican party by stealth measures like buying apartments in trump tower and posting fake news on facebook. its extremely funny to imagine not only that america is so fragile that this strategy worked, but that their response is to make really shitty documentaries about it. im imagining it all right now and lolling.
#517
Mccain seems to have finally left the news cycle, I was getting tired of constant updates regarding the exact location of his decaying corpse
#518
it will win an oscar won't it
#519
The year is 2345, and the robotic vessel of Jake Tapper's uploaded AI conciousness reports live from a tree grown in soil extracted from the cemetary McCain was buried in.
#520
political cartoon: john mccain's gravestone and a 2nd gravestone right next to it saying "the hopes of every honest american"