#2561
I've mostly skimmed the last few posts in this thread but I think it's interesting to view the Khashoggi incident as part of Western journalists moronic overvaluation of their place in society--the general public of even a settler state like the united snakes probably cares somewhat more about the hideous war in Yemen than some occasional op ed asshole (for the wrong reasons of course). Like seriously the only anger over this I've seen is from Tom Freidman and friends. I feel like this mirrors most Syria propaganda where even the most Russia gate brained lib or the most Long Island ass settler is no longer invested in the usual neo con stakes there. I don't necessarily think this is a good thing, only that MBS and crew killed Khasoggi because they could and that people will forget about this in the same way they did the kidnapping of Lebanese politicians.
#2562
I dunno, it honestly did give me a pang of sympathy for the free speech moralizing. In Mauritania the government doesn't care what you write or say because its an informal society that mostly doesnt want to get off its ass but also will never accept to stop yapping whatever they like. But in the UAE, Egypt and other places, its fucking life-ruining to even post like we do here. When they start cutting your fingers off and beheading you in foreign land, it can spook a lot of people in the region, especially people who had to leave their homes and live as foreigners just so they can have the ability to give anodyne criticisms of bourgeois governments and their crimes against their people.

Of course most WaPo writers are just cynical spokespeople for the order that maintains the cretins who put Middle Easterners in danger if they speak, and Khashoggi spent most of his career embedded with the most repressive rulers in the region, but something about how ready they were to butcher what seemed to be their own guy, and a friend to many of the people they rely on for some measure of credibility with the Western public, sits badly with me.
#2563
turn on CNN to see how theyre covering the saudi admission about khashoggi's killing. mans just now arguing this incident shouldnt affect US-saudi relations: "every regime in the middle east apart from israel is committing human rights violations on a daily basis" haha im dead
#2564

shriekingviolet posted:

the fiction archetype of the calm, cool professional who receives clear orders for a Big Mission and executes it with careful, traceless precision as he flounces around doing Fancy Spy Shit is a myth.



Moon of Alabama is hinting ominously that the Saudis only fucked up because they secretly wanted the whole thing to be a public fuck-up, so they could send a vague, undefined message to parties unknown. The rare real-flag false flag like a boss.

MoA's list of cleaner imaginary operations the Saudis would have otherwise preferred over using a gang of their government's top-dog killers inside their own consulate:

  • Saudi agents inject Khashoggi with super-dope, and with Turkish & foreign agents watching their every move, carry him all the way to an airfield somewhere in or near Turkey's biggest metropolis and onto a plane, then fly away into oblivion
  • Saudi agents hire some low-rent rando hitman to shoot Khashoggi in the street and cross their fingers the guy they hire doesn't screw up, get caught and/or rat them out
  • Saudi agents post Khashoggi to Saudi Arabia in a big shipping crate like when Mimi mailed Drew Carey to the Great Wall of China


I'm glad that blog is still around to make people like me look reasonable
#2565

wasted posted:

I think it's just a simple case of there's no longer a reason to peddle the myth of the freedom-loving Jeffersonian contra.

#2566
I did appreciate some conservatives instantly smearing kashoggi by saying he was affiliated with al qaeda. Guess we yet again have to adjust the dial for “is al qaeda good or not” meter
#2567
Saudi: *handing bags of cash to al-Qaeda to clear from Hadhramout* "The real al-Qaeda worked at the Washington Post and we got him."
#2568
the real al qaeda were the friends we made on our life journey
#2569
just want to note that gina haspel is in turkey "investigating" khashoggi's death, by which is probably meant she's there to see sensitive evidence and talk to certain people in person because this probably isn't a skype situation. i think this is pretty solid evidence khashoggi was more than just a journalist. the head of the cia doesn't jump on a plane for any old shitty opinion writer. the washington examiner, which is the mouthpiece of the hard-right faction of the cia (punched up with a bunch of national inquirer-tier propaganda), has a piece explaining how she's going because her turkey experience simply makes her the best person for the job, which is hilarious, there's obviously a little more to it than that.
#2570
Would make a lot of sense for him to be well acquainted with the CIA, and also a likely motive for the Saudis to whack someone against the current regime with close ties to the intelligence agency of their overlords. Theres a strong chance he was lobbying for MBS to be taken down and replaced with someone from the side of the royals he's paly with.
#2571
the impression i got was that she came here to convince nerdogan as she arrived the night before his speech he had hyped before. then he said practically nothing in his speech lol
#2572
they cut up a cia agent with bonesaws?
#2573
and it was adnan khashoggi's nephew?
#2574

tears posted:

they cut up a cia agent with bonesaws?


he would have been an asset rather than an agent. he wasnt a US citizen and it's pretty common for cia to recruit foreign correspondents of friendly nations to do information gathering & propaganda work on an ad hoc basis.

i think the amount of care cia is showing in this case reflects khashoggi's involvement in something sensitive and/or that he was working both sides and the saudis wanted to send a message about their indepedence from the yanks

#2575
I think he was a reporter that the Saudi government had murdered.
#2576
Like... the CIA showing "care" about this after the President whined about it on TV tells us absolutely nothing. That's what they'd do regardless. And whatever they might be really doing, it won't involve one of their top officials' publicized activities.
#2577

cars posted:

I think he was a reporter that the Saudi government had murdered.


another rhizzone superstar cracks a case wide open, this is what it's all about folks. only here.

#2578

cars posted:

Like... the CIA showing "care" about this after the President whined about it on TV tells us absolutely nothing. That's what they'd do regardless. And whatever they might be really doing, it won't involve one of their top officials' publicized activities.


There's a difference between caring and sending the head of the agency over to deal with it in person. It's only publicised because she's too visible to go without everyone noticing. I'm not saying the guy was going to expose the truth about Mecca being built by aliens or anything, just that he was doing a little extracurricular stuff while journalisting and it got him in trouble.

#2579

Petrol posted:

There's a difference between caring and sending the head of the agency over to deal with it in person. It's only publicised because she's too visible to go without everyone noticing.



Sending the head of the agency over and making a big deal about it in the press is exactly how they'd show they "care" about it, in the exact way that shores up their image in the press and their nominal obedience to the White House. It doesn't tell us anything about what they're actually doing about it. And yeah, of course it's "only publicized because she's too visible to go without everyone knowing"; she's going because she's visible, and she's doing it so that everyone knows about it. Publicity is the goal of that exercise, or it wouldn't happen.

#2580
In any case, it's likely any reporter of international note working in the region gets fed information by the U.S. government through different channels whether they realize it or not. It doesn't require some sort of special position vis-a-vis the CIA for that to be true for Khashoggi, or for the Saudi royals to have wanted him dead and to have figured they could get away with it (which they are). I have yet to see any specific / substantial reason offered why they would kill the guy to send some sort of vague message to the U.S. government when they obviously wanted him dead anyway, had him killed, and almost certainly won't face any consequences for it that would matter to a royal family in charge of the country responsible for filling the oil gap left by sanctions against Iran and Venezuela. Though I doubt they wanted to get caught in the manner they did, and I sincerely doubt the Saudis want the United States to become less involved in the Middle East right now or to let Saudi Arabia go it alone in any capacity. It would fly in the face of the royal family's immediate and long-term interests.

Like, yeah the U.S. government is involved here, in the usual way everyone already knows about: it's going to make a lot of noise while making sure nothing really bad happens to the people currently running Saudi Arabia. That's just SOP right now.
#2581

cars posted:

And yeah, of course it's "only publicized because she's too visible to go without everyone knowing"; she's going because she's visible, and she's doing it so that everyone knows about it. Publicity is the goal of that exercise, or it wouldn't happen.


I guess we disagree on this because afaik it's actually pretty unusual for the head of the cia to personally travel somewhere under these circumstances, but I could be wrong about that. For publicity' sake? it really seems like overkill, but I guess everything about this is ridiculous anyway

#2582
the turkish gov can fuck the saudis over this, mit had the whole thing surveiled, audio recordings etc. they are gonna get a massive pay out as result.

mbs killed his oppositions puppy, nothing more elaborate than that i think.. but its backfired and he may get replaced as salman still has moments of lucidity.
#2583
holy shit lol

http://exiledonline.com/shamiwitness-when-bellingcat-neocons-collaborated-with-the-most-influential-isis-propagandist-on-twitter/
#2584
Still so beautiful to me when eXile writer Mark Ames personally & specifically owns former posting superstars of Debate and Discussion posting forum.
#2585

Higgins, a doughy pinkish Midlands gamer,

#2586
Eliot Higgins.
#2587

Petrol posted:

I guess we disagree on this because afaik it's actually pretty unusual for the head of the cia to personally travel somewhere under these circumstances, but I could be wrong about that. For publicity' sake? it really seems like overkill, but I guess everything about this is ridiculous anyway



I mean, though, why else would it happen? When an unacknowledged asset gets snuffed they probably don't have a policy of sending the head of the agency over to the country where it happened to plant a flag in the body, and the CIA certainly wouldn't need her to go to the site in person to address clandestine agency business on the side, especially since it would be difficult to conceal she was visiting from reporters or hide her specific activities from local state security goons. In general when a high-ranking, publicly visible executive, private or public, travels somewhere with a lot of fanfare nowadays, it's to draw attention from the press and flatter or embarrass whoever they're visiting.

I don't know why overkill in media messaging from the Trump White House would be surprising, I guess. They're pretty consistent about that: they make big, visible moves that "socialize" their message and ignore position-specific Washington etiquette for public officials, and they don't care who calls them stupid or not cricket or whatever so long as the person they send to do something draws attention to whatever story they want told. They don't even seem to care whether most news outlets tell their version of the story, just the ones that hit big Republican voting blocs. I think this is probably another situation where this administration does its P.R. and even diplomatic work through dealing blunt force trauma to the news cycle, and Hell,

Edited by cars ()

#2588
eliot piggins
#2589

cars posted:


Let's all just laugh at Eliot Higgins now.

Edited by Petrol ()

#2590
I think my conclusion is that if Khashoggi was CIA Bin Salam wouldn't have the balls to try and kill him
#2591

Khashoggi posted:

In his customary deceitful way, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif sought to portray Iran as a pleasant country, ready for dialogue with stubborn and hard-line Saudi Arabia. He told an audience at the Munich security conference last week: "We believe there is nothing in our region that would exclude Iran and Saudi working together for a better future for all of us," adding that extremists "are as much a threat to our brothers in Saudi Arabia as they are to the rest of the region. We are bound by a common destiny."

It is still better than the common Iranian rhetoric which claims that Saudi Arabia and Daesh are two sides of the same coin. As Zarif was presenting himself as peaceful lamb, his comrades in the Revolutionary Guard were raising their flags on what was left of a mosque minaret in northern Syria, watching broken women carrying white flags march by.

Those civilians are not Daesh, but some of them might join it after being radicalised due to what Iran is doing in Syria. So to have a joint fight with the Saudis against Daesh, Tehran must change its policies.

Iran looks at the region, particularly Syria, from a sectarian angle. The militias Tehran is relying on, some of which come from as far as Afghanistan, are sectarian. They raid Syrian villages with sectarian slogans, bringing to life conflicts from over a thousand years ago. With blood and sectarianism, Iran is redrawing the map of the region.



lol who was this fucker

#2592
remember when this thread was about the war in syria
#2593
no
#2594
"Khashoggi worked previously as a Saudi diplomat and media advisor to his long-time friend Turki Faisal Al-Saud, former Saudi Ambassador to Washington and head of intelligence for 24 years. He also served with the Saudi Intelligence in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion, and possibly the United States, buying off US-based Arab reporters and TV stations."

Edited by tears ()

#2595
keep your sticky hands off my syria
#2596

tears posted:

lol who was this fucker


the voice of saudi resistance

#2597
khashoggi was an old pal of osama bin laden; interviewing him several times during the counter-revoultion, "facilitated by the cia"; jamal khasshogi was cia and so is shane shith
#2598
Gina Haspel has flown to turkey because of what khasshogi, a spook, said during his interrogation, which erdogan is now sitting on beacuse they recorded the whole thing secretly
#2599
after fleeing saudi arabia khashoggi moved to langley, virginia, where he bought a condo
#2600
i mean come on