#761
WayBackMachine also has it, which is nice for clicking links to other parts of the same site.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180824143944/https://lorenzoae.wordpress.com/2016/05/31/part-1/
#762
#763

cars posted:



And yet no retribution on Confederate officers and landowners, how sad.

#764
The whole south should have been genocided of crackers and given to the new afrikcans.
#765

Populares posted:

The whole south should have been genocided of crackers and given to the new afrikcans.



what an interesting verb..

#766

cars posted:


Second largest. The largest was the Great Hanging at Gainesville. Now "the most patriotic small town in America."

#767

trakfactri posted:

Now "the most patriotic small town in America."


holy shit

#768
"mass shooting in church in White Settlement, TX", clearly perpetrated by very unimaginative reader of j sakai
#769

shriekingviolet posted:

holy shit


might technically not count as it was after texas had broken away. the mass murder of 41 unionists is an inconvenient historical fact about the town though so they rebranded to essentially be the "troops" town and making that their thing, despite not being a military town or there being any military installations of note within 100 miles. i think in practice this means flying in really old korean and vietnam war veterans and parading them around as the townspeople wave miniature american flags and salute them for their service lynching koreans and vietnamese people.

edit: white settlement is in the same region. i associate that town more with paroled white supremacist prison gang members

#770
it's the goddam florida panhandle, it's racist as shit
#771
i got around to reading settlers and it was very illuminating as well as reinforcing in ideas/stories i had or heard before opening the book or even getting interested in politics. im not from north america and the problem with bringing up/making analogies based on north american theory/history here is that you always get the white dunce at the back of the room going 'yeahh but we AINT in america!!! you just CANT transpose things that have for premises a codependency between class and race here because its DIFFERENT' in an attempt to shut down any discourse about racism. Yet sakai qualifying 'minorities' in the U$ as colonial people is very analogous to the treatment of colonial people by the french empire for example, who after using them as unpaid labor in the colonies brought us in the metropolis to toil away the country's infrastructural modernization for the comfort of the europeans, often living in squalid slums with no running water before the banishment areas known as the banlieue were erected. the part about upward class mobility after WW2 is identical to what went on here, african & sino-vietnamese immigrants labored their lives away while a massive bureaucratic labor class emerged and got nothing but generational poverty in return - although id admit that a residual % of second n third gens had the access to upward mobility. This of course led to racialized labor disputes between white (ethnic french, but also italians, spanish&portuguese, polish/eastern european/armenian etc.) and those from Afrika, north & subsaharian, the pattern is very similar to what was depicted in Settlers, as european immigration into french was more in the first part of the 20th century by the time WW2 ended they were already fully integrated to the social fabric of the country. It seems like racism against the last wave of immigration is like pedophilia for billionaires, aka a nasty way of building solidarity & kinship. All i got from labor disputes, unions stepping on ethnic strikes, whites blaming afrikans for wages going down and strikes being ineffective is very anecdotal and comes from talking to people, id have trouble finding any academic sources on the question to back what im saying here. I also enjoyed a lot the part on the phillistine way of life as it reinforced what i felt upon reading Baudrillard's Consumer Society and Clouscard's Le Capitalisme de la Séduction, consumer society was the wedding ring given to the labor aristocracy by imperialism, permanently tying those two together into a blatant parasitism. It was also very nice to discover that Marcus Garvey and the UNIA were very popular, as i always thought they were a sectarian minority in Afrikan politics, despite being the most efficient and revolutionary organ. same for NoI I guess, but thats maybe because contemporary NoI isnt that strong as it was in the middle of the 20th century
The only issue i find with the book is Sakai's take on the PCF as being the spearhead of a two centuries long 'proletarian culture' in fRANC€. From what i've read on the party its always been this social-chauvinistic organ that didnt even hide its racist labor aristocratic politics, the 'theres already enough unemployment, no need for a bigger surge of black & brown faces coming in this country' shtick, as well as publicly shaming a moroccan family as part of a nationwide anti drug campaign (the moroccan family allegedly took part in the haschich trade) (the 1981 Montigny-lès-Cormeilles incident). the articles relating to that event say that the party lost 1/3rd of its electoral base after that, scattered in various other left wing parties. Sakai claims that as the worldwide production web becomes more n more parcellized and codependant imperialist countries will homogenize in their social stratification but personally id say that imperialism was already what activated the homogeneization switch in oppressor/imperialist countries. This might seem too extreme (at least it was when i said it to acquaintances who are into left wing politics, 'communists') but the so-called social safety net and various social benefits in labor obtained through labor movements in the 20s-30s wasnt the result of class struggle as historians love to put it but simple concessions by imperialists who decided to pacify the workers by sharing what they got out of their global racket

ive talked about the past so now id like to talk about the future and organizing. from simply going outside, talking to people etc i witnessed over the time that all the people breaking their backs in wage slavery or being subject to the repression of the prison system are for a crushing majority Afrikans and inside of that group in majority muslims. What ive been pondering about lately is how you reconcile this social group with a huge revolutionary potential with progressive politics, when a for a huge share of my kin their identity hinges around an abrahamic religion that values tradition, conservatism and most of all an almost dogmatic fervor and devotion into faith? How do you associate afrikan lumpens and socialism, as they are a social group who add to this traditional belief-value system integrate the most predatory capitalist ethos needed for economic survival out of the legal capitalist circuit? its very tough doing any political/social organizing here because of this. Aside from antizionism and anti imperialism its difficult to make it go deeper ideologically. i got no solution for going further than food distribution to refugees or the really poor afrikans, and even that had a religious identity wrapped around it (sadaqah). I'd like to hear the opinion/experience of european posters (no matter the ethnicity ) living in imperialist countries with a massively impoverished muslim/afrikan/oriental proletariat when it comes to socialist organizing.
on a more personal note discovering third worldism, this website & settlers thru it, MIM & LLCO gave me a very solid ideological backbone i never had before. ive flirted with communist theory for the past 2-3 yrs but always felt detached because all the grievances were too national or utopian, always erased ethnic issues and the global south, the 'more for me' sakai explains wonderfully. aside from black panther theory and other black muslim in amerikkka i had trouble identifying with any struggle & thought behind it, particularly those happening right outside my home. ive been wandering alone lost in a sea of white socdems, trots n anarchist for years n im glad this is finally over!
#772
I don't think there has really been an effective political plan for applying third worldist politics within the imperialist core, my interpretation is to work on anti-imperialist organizing until something better emerges

I don't think it will come from inside the belly of the beast, I think it will take the continuing development of revolutions abroad and it will be up to us to support them however they asked to be supported
#773

dizastar posted:

How do you associate afrikan lumpens and socialism, as they are a social group who add to this traditional belief-value system integrate the most predatory capitalist ethos needed for economic survival out of the legal capitalist circuit? its very tough doing any political/social organizing here because of this. Aside from antizionism and anti imperialism its difficult to make it go deeper ideologically. i got no solution for going further than food distribution to refugees or the really poor afrikans, and even that had a religious identity wrapped around it (sadaqah).



i think most initiatives that follow from local orgs led by nationals rarely succeed at providing more than patronizing 'charity', there is little consciousness of complicity. somehow the entire domestic/construction/agricultural sector depending on the labor of internal colonies under legal duress is of small consequence. with any action being self-perceived as gracious and therefore sufficient there is no incentive for analysis/maturation/continuity.

initiatives oriented from the position of 'the migrant' seem to hold more potential from being in flux and having a more heterodox intake depending on local demographics which can feel like a productive space for solidarity/learning/acting, although the focus/energy is continually fragmented toward the urgent and immediate. the tragic limitation is that often these spaces face insurmountable internal difficulties stemming from entrenched patriarchy.

imho organizing from a feminist position contributes towards liberation in the immediate familial/social/cultural sense and is absolutely necessary for whatever is next.

#774
I’m reading some stuff about 1960s-current US political organizing and there is a significant political lineage to the position that the principal contradiction in the US today isn’t workers vs bosses, but this political line has almost been extinguished in the left today. In a lot of ways, it wasn’t fully fleshed out, you had groups like the Revolutionary Union focused on proletarianizing college grads and sending them into factories to agitate with the eventual, larger end goal of building support for China.

One trend of this degenerated into adventurism (Bruce Franklin/Venceremos, Weather Underground, etc) and the other became the RCP, which reasserted the primacy of class conflict within the imperialist core as the most key contradiction to focus on.

The lessons from the past show just how difficult it is to organize on a communist basis without the primacy being class conflict, I think these are psychological as well as theoretical. In a very real sense, anti-imperialist organizing in the imperialist core calls for crumbling the current system before a new order can be built. The socialist projects across the world can flourish when imperial power declines and the superexploitation slows.

Let's say hypothetically we can get 10% off the imperial population to be outright communist in the right circumstances, it may only be 10% of those that will take a position asserting that the principal contradiction is the imperialist core vs the periphery. What does effective praxis look like when your best case scenario is 1% of the population taking a suicidal position (from a class and imperial perspective)?
#775

pogfan1996 posted:

What does effective praxis look like when your best case scenario is 1% of the population taking a suicidal position (from a class and imperial perspective)?



it looks like the analysis that leads to that question begins with a breathless flying leap through a whole bunch of stuff that hasn't been established

#776

cars posted:

pogfan1996 posted:

What does effective praxis look like when your best case scenario is 1% of the population taking a suicidal position (from a class and imperial perspective)?

it looks like the analysis that leads to that question begins with a breathless flying leap through a whole bunch of stuff that hasn't been established



That's a fair criticism. My larger point is that any suicidal class position has a very small number of adherents, you don't see a large percentage of factory owners and landlords organizing for socialism (although there have been significant individuals from these classes)

#777
framing it as suicidal probably isn't the best way to go, don't tell them that!
#778

chickeon posted:

framing it as suicidal probably isn't the best way to go, don't tell them that!



Do you mean this in a theoretical sense or rhetorical sense? Ending imperialism would, by definition, obliterate the labor aristocracy.

#779
hot take: spreading coronavirus as revolutionary praxis to weaken the us imperial machine
#780
I think at some point the sort of basic observation that almost all Americans are better off than the average Vietnamese peasant, that the left needed to hear, got turned into something unnecessarily absolutist. Idk if a useful way of categorizing the "who are our friends, who are our enemies" sort of thing really rests on "who's living on less than US federal minimum wage" which is the mim way of looking at it basically. Its an interesting way of looking at things but then ur kinda left with "lets do the turner diaries but maoist," which im not against on principle really but doesnt seem feasible. The people who're supposed to be involved in "unified national liberation war against the united ssnakess of amerikkka" dont really seem interested in any sort of nation state. And then once you start thinking about it, what are you gonna have like Aztlan socialism in one country? There's not gonna be a situation where only a geographic half or a quarter of the country is up for a revolution, and if the largest economy in the world is in crisis, that all the others are a in a million ways interlinked with, you're looking at a crisis situation across the world. You have the potential for a sort of 19th century imagination transnational "workers of the world" or whatever governmental solution. You dont need to think in a socialism in one country defensive 20th century posture, where nat lib is really the emphasized thing. Not to advocate for trotskyism or whatever i just dont know if the national contradiction is the panacea for the communist left.

And so we're back at looking at who's the "hard core of the proletariat" and i think the mim perspective kind of ignores the important part, which is "who is dependent on the sale of their labor power on the market" and who is living precariously for that reason. Which i think theres a v solid contingent of Americans that applies to. And there's strata of people who can rely on other means to live in addition to wage labor, from various sources and at various strengths. Obviously its all amplified by the context of imperial/settler parasitism, but I don't think it makes sense to see these people uniformly as a hostile labor aristocracy. From the inception of the proletariat as a class to the modern day there have been people alternating their time between wage labor and peasant agricultural life where they or their family may have some land. So I think the important thing is not tell everyone they need to commit class suicide out of the labor aristocracy, but that there is a labor aristocracy, and a LA movement and way of thinking that's dominant, and that its got them into the current crisis.

Edited by BOFAnshen ()

#781
If you got rid of the labour aristocracy a sizable chunk of the work it does for a living now would cease to make sense. You'd still need business analysts (I hope), teachers etc. but they would be working in a radically different economic system. And I can't visualise what that system looks like in a way that feels like it might approach reality if/when. Will there be more teachers and less business analysts? Will most current business analysts become hybrid job trainers/receptionists/cheesemakers while doing part-time training as nurses over 20 years? What would make sense as incentives for higher productivity or innovation? Less likely to be vacation to shrines of Mammon glittering with sin and instead enrichment session in nearby farm commune where price of admission is gathering mushrooms for a week. Video games? Capitalism would be long dead if it weren't able to selectively alter conditions of price discovery and labour negotiation in flagrant defiance of its own first principles. Once you acknowledge that though there's just an undifferentiated mass of questions with tentative answers at best.
#782
the Democratic People's Republic of Soviet States of Amerika will have competing video game design bureaus.
#783

chickeon posted:

framing it as suicidal probably isn't the best way to go, don't tell them that!


it's uhh, suicidal, but like, in the sense lil peep was suicidal? like, he OD'ed accidentally, but nobody is that reckless without a total disregard for their own wellbeing to the point of knowing their actions are, like, effectively suicidal. hello? please stop walking away from me

#784

pogfan1996 posted:

I don't think there has really been an effective political plan for applying third worldist politics within the imperialist core, my interpretation is to work on anti-imperialist organizing until something better emerges

I don't think it will come from inside the belly of the beast, I think it will take the continuing development of revolutions abroad and it will be up to us to support them however they asked to be supported



from my experience from just my daily convos with pals and overall people in my age bracket its very easy to mobilize afrikan lumpens around anti imperialism. theres already a solid basis for muslim solidarity with the oppressed nations of the maghreb or the orient who fell victim to the amerikkan death machine. As for subsaharian afrikans theres a real yet underestimated political awakening when it comes to the neocolonialism of fRANC€ and their control over the economy of subsaharian ex french colonies through the dictatorship of the Frankkk CFA, which erases any possible chance of sovereignty (Kemi Séba explains this better than me, i recommend everyone here who can understand french to check him out) in these countries and keeps them in perpetual chains of french imp€rialism. but again the main problem with anti imperialism and linking the national sovereignty of afrikan nations and their economic liberation as well as fighting against the amerikkan war machine having a half a century long genocide on the third world with our local, grassroots material conditions is making the fact that we'll need to sacrifice some of our comfort for the sake of our brothers and sisters from the original land easy to swallow. ive been trying to explain this for a while now every now n then without trying to sound like im preaching but its really difficult to explain to guys who already struggle to make it out this very idea, although most of them think its actually quite sound in theory, they just have this slight defeatism in their worldview that i totally understand and used to share until a year or two ago. i think you were the one who said tht in another thread actually, but its just virtually impossible to mobilize people by telling them that theyll have to give up the little luxuries they have.


Gssh posted:

dizastar posted:

How do you associate afrikan lumpens and socialism, as they are a social group who add to this traditional belief-value system integrate the most predatory capitalist ethos needed for economic survival out of the legal capitalist circuit? its very tough doing any political/social organizing here because of this. Aside from antizionism and anti imperialism its difficult to make it go deeper ideologically. i got no solution for going further than food distribution to refugees or the really poor afrikans, and even that had a religious identity wrapped around it (sadaqah).

i think most initiatives that follow from local orgs led by nationals rarely succeed at providing more than patronizing 'charity', there is little consciousness of complicity. somehow the entire domestic/construction/agricultural sector depending on the labor of internal colonies under legal duress is of small consequence. with any action being self-perceived as gracious and therefore sufficient there is no incentive for analysis/maturation/continuity.

initiatives oriented from the position of 'the migrant' seem to hold more potential from being in flux and having a more heterodox intake depending on local demographics which can feel like a productive space for solidarity/learning/acting, although the focus/energy is continually fragmented toward the urgent and immediate. the tragic limitation is that often these spaces face insurmountable internal difficulties stemming from entrenched patriarchy.

imho organizing from a feminist position contributes towards liberation in the immediate familial/social/cultural sense and is absolutely necessary for whatever is next.



the idea about spreading feminist theory makes a lot of sense sense on a microsocial, familial level. this reminds me the young lords 13 points program, where they put a particular emphasis on fighting machismo inside of their ranks. but im not a woman so trying to spread feminist ideas kinda seem out of reach and i havent read a lot of it anyway... i like the MIM argument for all sex being rape but idk at the same time it kinda compromises me as a heterosexual man, same for dworkin although its very interesting outlooks. ive also read a few articles by materialist feminists from when i had classes on gender back in university and it was quite interesting but i never digged deeper i dont know. maybe i'll get to reading caliban and the witch soon. as for charity its true that its more emotional and community support work more than real political organizing. Although i think it has value in that for a lot of person, particularly when it comes to the poorest, matter speaks louder than words and it helps being taken more seriously. back when i lived in my old neighbourhood me and my dad used to hand out mutton meat every other weekend to single mother households with no income mostly. not because the father ran off or anything but because some died prematurely or were fatally ill because of working conditions, or suffered a stroke and couldnt provide anymore. this had no political impact whatsoever. but i also cooked kabuli palaw and distributed it in tupperwares, particularly during winter nights. some had too much pride to accept already cooked meals, particularly mothers, so this was more aimed at the guys who suffered from the unemployment issue or were sadly involved in the drug trade and had to stand in the cold (i know this is disrespecting the bpp line on drug peddlers but you have to understand that the underground economy has such ubiquity where i used to live that you cant just shun all the people taking part in it). this was a great way of communicating political ideas and led to very interesting debates, despite having left school early and showing no apparent interest for either institutional politics or any type of theory the level of consciousness and awareness about whats been going on in the world was very developped, i had more interesting talks with guys from the neighbourhood than with anyone i met in university during my short stint there

this might read like a blogpost or might seem pointless but i felt like indicating my experience when it came to actually doing something might clear some things. id like to join an organization that already exists but theres none i can really identify to in the french communist milieu

#785

pogfan1996 posted:

cars posted:

pogfan1996 posted:

What does effective praxis look like when your best case scenario is 1% of the population taking a suicidal position (from a class and imperial perspective)?

it looks like the analysis that leads to that question begins with a breathless flying leap through a whole bunch of stuff that hasn't been established

That's a fair criticism. My larger point is that any suicidal class position has a very small number of adherents, you don't see a large percentage of factory owners and landlords organizing for socialism (although there have been significant individuals from these classes)



If 10% of Americans are communist in the future, I'll reckon it's because the labor aristocracy no longer exists. No super profits, no labor aristocracy

#786

dizastar posted:

i like the MIM argument for all sex being rape but idk at the same time it kinda compromises me as a heterosexual man, same for dworkin although its very interesting outlooks.


i think MIMs rhetoric around this stuff was very stupid because it's like a cartoon version of what dworkin actually said & just reinforces the hysterical distortions of her ideas that have existed in the public understanding.

#787

blinkandwheeze posted:

dizastar posted:

i like the MIM argument for all sex being rape but idk at the same time it kinda compromises me as a heterosexual man, same for dworkin although its very interesting outlooks.

i think MIMs rhetoric around this stuff was very stupid because it's like a cartoon version of what dworkin actually said & just reinforces the hysterical distortions of her ideas that have existed in the public understanding.


i was interested to see what all the fuss is about and bnw is not wrong https://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/faq/allsexisrape.html

it's cringey to read this because it is so poorly developed yet so earnest. the topic of gender relations is indeed as important as this article holds out but that means it demands a proper exploration, not this mess. i mean, on top of all the glaring problems with it, it's heterocentric as fuck. into the bin!!

#788
also is it just me or is it really funny to read stuff like this on a website where every page is emblazoned with a message to buy their magazine from amazon
#789

Petrol posted:

also is it just me or is it really funny to read stuff like this on a website where every page is emblazoned with a message to buy their magazine from amazon



we have a magazine on amazon??

#790
It's more of a newsletter.
#791
lil.red is down for now cuz my years-old SAmart goon-discount host moved to the cloud and fucked up all the DNS stuff that i'm currently too drained to look into
#792

On Sept. 13, 1944 the U.S. 15th Air Force bombed the I.G. Farben industrial complex right next to Auschwitz death camp (a few bombs fell in Auschwitz itself, killing 15 S.S. men and 40 other fascists). Although this proved the U.S. military's ability to strike at the Nazi death camps, U.S. imperialism still refused to interfere with the genocide. And this was when the Nazis were feverishly slaughtering as many as possible - at Auschwitz as many as 24,000 per day!

U.S. imperialism posed as being anti-fascist, but it was U.S. imperialism which had helped put Nazism in power. Henry Ford was an important early backer of Hitler, and by 1924 had started pouring money into the tiny Nazi party. Ford's portrait hung on the wall in Hitler's Party office. Every birthday until World War II Ford had sent Hitler his personal greetings (and a gift of money). Even during the War the Ford Motor Company delivered vital parts to the German Army through neutral Switzerland. On October 20, 1942 the U.S. Embassy in London complained to Washington that Ford was using his plants in Switzerland to repair 2,000 German Army trucks.

Ford was just one example out of many. GM President Willian Knudson told a press conference on October 6, 1933, that Nazism was "the miracle of the 20th century." GM in Germany contributed one-half percent out of all its employees' wages as a weekly mass donation to the Nazi Party.