#1121
it's even more overt than evola & spengler stuff i think, the whole cosmology & prophetic ideas seem to be drawn directly from devi & serrano, just replacing the hindu signifiers with faux classical-hermetic names.

By the way lo speaking of the bm connection, i saw an interview with that vassafor person from here where he directly referenced o9a & devi so i guess he's a kerry bolton nazi guy?
#1122

blinkandwheeze posted:

By the way lo speaking of the bm connection, i saw an interview with that vassafor person from here where he directly referenced o9a & devi so i guess he's a kerry bolton nazi guy?


vk identifies as a satanist and obviously knows about some of that stuff but its not clear to me how much hes actually into the political aspect of it, but its hard to say. like, theres one interview where he talks about how he has maori heritage on one side of his family and wrote a song inspired by it, which is sort of unusual given the usual beliefs of these guys. he also plays as a live musician for blasphemy, who are sort of notable as one of the few 'underground' black metal bands to feature a black person. theres a death industrial project by this other guy who was at some point a sort of protege of bolton's that did an intro for vassafor and he is really overtly nazi though so who knows really.. we're kind of getting a bit off topic here lol

#1123

lo posted:

the o9a guys themselves claim to be above mere neonazism and that its just a tool for spreading their ideas,


normal brain: smuggling nazism via concern trolling about underemployment, immigration and political correctness
galaxy brain: smuggling occult ideology via nazism

#1124
and now the dead man is alive again and CNN is owned.
#1125
i've mentioned this before but I think the Western press is stuck in this mindset where they assume this will all be seen as klassik Kremlinology about the mysterious East, We don't know what's true and what's lies because it's so bad over there!! and it's becoming pretty clear that a lot more of their audience than a decade ago, or a decade before that, sees this executed-man-rises-from-the-dead stuff as the shameful war-mongering bullshit it is, even if they still have outright racist ideas about the Koreans themselves.
#1126

cars posted:

On the "executions" thing, I'm wondering if anyone has tried out the line that DPRK's government is leaking the stories themselves to ROK's propaganda papers just to make the Western press look like idiots when the "dead" person shows up in the stands at the Olympics, and if not, where I can pick up my check for this great face-saving idea.


I think a likely explanation of why this keeps happening is that when defectors to the ROK go through the debriefing process and media frenzy (which has long been acknowledged even by anti-DPRK sources to emphasize sensationalism over facts,) they get asked 1) what intelligence can you give us about major DPRK personages 2) what kind of fucked up crazy shit can you tell us happened the DPRK. That just kind of naturally dovetails into someone doing an amateur improv sketch about the hilarious Rube Goldberg execution of someone important.

#1127
I don't think this is unique to the Korea situation either, though the particulars of the conflict exasperate the tendency. Intelligence agencies have huge problems with misusing information sources because their assumptions contaminate how they obtain and interpret data, and they'll just keep asking the same flawed question disregarding anything contradicting those assumptions until they get the answer they were expecting.

Once those assumptions become institutional memory and received wisdom it becomes a feedback loop and you get crazy shit like the CIA believing that the Soviets had powerful mind control devices or the mythic resurrection cycles of DPRK officials. Or less funny stuff like torturing a 15 year old kid who doesn't know anything in Guantanamo Bay for a decade, because he signed the confession we put in front of him between bouts of torture, therefore the confession must be accurate, so he has to know something, right?
#1128
I think the main reason is pretty simple corruption and laziness in the news media, and the need to "feed the beast" by churning out these rewritten stories from other places all the time.

All of that other stuff (the racism, the warmongering, the hyped-up stories from defectors) plays a role, too, but the news media is a system of production. A lot of editors have an indifferent attitude because they're relying on this right-wing South Korean paper Chosun Ilbo for a lot of these stories, and can assign a stressed-out intern the job of hacking out a slightly reworded version of the same story and adding "according to a South Korean newspaper" here and there in the piece which is enough to cross it over the line. Then the editor hits the publish button and it's up on the site. If it turns out to be bogus, no biggie because "oh, the South Korean paper got it wrong, not us, we were just reporting what that paper reported." And most of the papers are all doing the same thing so there's no collective responsibility. Most of the readers were already primed to believe the story anyways and few people are going to raise a fuss about a DPRK official's falsely reported death.
#1129
all that is true but i still feel like a resident of innsmouth every time i see these reporters on social media or wherever pretending like they didn't just fuck up a massive story. in a sane world their credentials would be thrown into a pyre.
#1130

shriekingviolet posted:

I think a likely explanation of why this keeps happening is that when defectors to the ROK go through the debriefing process and media frenzy (which has long been acknowledged even by anti-DPRK sources to emphasize sensationalism over facts,) they get asked 1) what intelligence can you give us about major DPRK personages 2) what kind of fucked up crazy shit can you tell us happened the DPRK. That just kind of naturally dovetails into someone doing an amateur improv sketch about the hilarious Rube Goldberg execution of someone important.



yeah, sing for your supper, try to give them something that will keep them from forgetting about you in the hostile, alienated new world you now inhabit. same as it ever was i suppose.

#1131
Again though, I think DPRK is becoming an unusual case for Western news outlets vs. a growing number of their target audiences, a split in a way those companies, their editors, their writers, etc., just don't seem to get given their cocktail-party mindset.

Which isn't to say that most of those people see DPRK itself as anything other than the propaganda-created alternate-universe version of it that makes for easy jokes, but it seems like some of the people who accept that part of the story are beginning not to give a fuck about their own POV on the country when it comes to healthy disbelief of whatever English-language TV or online news says about it. I suppose it's because the sort of non-bourgeois person who still reads the Times on occasion would rather be a smart-ass who calls the news before it happens. And DPRK seems to shoulder a huge amount of leftover Cold War xenophobic urban-legend hobbyism, meaning reporters who talk about it figure they can just say whatever the hell they please, and meanwhile they're trying to wink and elbow their audience into ludicrous Washington-consensus opinions when that audience has no real reason to practice crazy talk about Koreans, because they're not going to land a part-time retirement gig that way, while people who work for CNN might.

Like: CNN and company were recently put into the position of explaining to their audience why an official peace treaty and end to the Korean War was super-secretly a bad thing, and why people should get scared and angry that Pyongyang and Seoul are on better terms now. They had a really hard time doing it, and IMO they failed, because that is a hard thing to explain to pretty much anyone who doesn't hang out with "anonymous government sources". Ditto the Sony "hacking" story, it turned into a joke when every "cyber" expert not invited to the table said, Yeah there's absolutely no proof at all that DPRK was involved, to the point that even Seth Rogen gave up and 180'd on it.

Probably because his creepy movie was real bad... but it's interesting that two versions of "in the know" are forming about DPRK, "in the know" in the sense of dinner guests of the Completely Innocuous Americans, and "in the know" knee-jerk skeptics about everything major news outlets say about DPRK, a job the Western press makes easier every day.
#1132
It came out that the assassinated half-brother was CIA and Trump apologized for him being CIA and promised no more CIA stuff would be done to the DPRK on his watch.
#1133

ilmdge posted:

It came out that the assassinated half-brother was CIA and Trump apologized for him being CIA and promised no more CIA stuff would be done to the DPRK on his watch.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-picked-kim-jong-un-over-the-cia-is-anyone-surprised/2019/06/12/355b9a68-8d44-11e9-b08e-cfd89bd36d4e_story.html?utm_term=.a4932dcaf405

When the president of the United States sides with a murderous dictator over our own CIA, you would think it would be big news. When that dictator is a communist who has threatened the United States with missile attacks, you would think leaders of the Republican Party might be at least a little agitated.



Lesser evil

#1134
There's a wall of little stars in the CIA headquarters, each star representing an agent fallen in the line of duty. The agency added four last year which were probably the four U.S. Army special forces guys who got murked in a desert ambush in Niger the year before that. Do you think they will add one for Kim Jong Nam?
#1135
I hope Our Own CIA can survive the shock of two guys they've been trying to overthrow for years teaming up against it
#1136

The president of the United States is effectively scolding our intelligence services for doing their jobs. He’s saying to an adversary: Don’t worry, I’ve got your back. Our terrible agents won’t trouble you again.

Not for the first time, we have to ask whether any allied foreign intelligence service can trust us with information — and what risks a would-be informant will take on our behalf. Such a source might well ponder whether Trump would send a “very personal, very warm” letter to one of his dictator friends outing our covert ally. And how much information can our CIA share with our commander in chief?



imagine trying to convince most people on the planet right now that any of this is bad

#1137
*guy sitting at a desk in the bottom of a MOAB crater turns to camera* The water is poison and unless more fuel gets past the blockade this year, my mother will die in the first month of winter. But what really worries me is, the CIA's having trouble collaborating effectively with President Trump, the Commander in Chief of the Washington Post
#1138
was there any doubt that career CIA officers most definitely have already been working around trump tho. they probably do it to an extent for every president, but i figure with this one it's almost a complete black out
#1139
Xi is about to spend two days in the DPRK, the first time a Chinese prez has been there since Hu visited in 2005. Xi has been there before, though, when he was vice president.

He also has an article in Rodong Sinmun focused on unswervingly supporting Kim Jong Un in leading the DPRK to implement the new strategic line and focusing on developing the economy and improving people's livelihoods for new and greater achievements in the socialist construction of the DPRK. Looking forward to the banquet pics for the Kim Jong Un is fat thread
#1140


normalizing Korea by acknowledging it exists...truly trump's vileness knows no bounds

#1141
there are many good reasons to denounce trump but these fleeting moments of treating DPRK like a nation of human beings is not one of them

i have been loathe to post about this because it draws attention yet again to my so far nonexistent trip report (when it's ready, gang) but there has been a really infuriating kerfuffle over the past few days about an australian guy 'missing feared detained' in DPRK. he's been living and studying in pyongyang for a year, running tours on the side and blogging to the wider world about the real DPRK - completely apolitical stuff of course and it's a breath of fresh air. anyway, australian media was saturated with reports on thursday that he had been arrested, all based on the fact that his family hadn't heard from him online since tuesday. call me crazy but i think hysterically trying to create a diplomatic incident after someone is incommunicado for 2 days is unnecessary. the events of the other day provide an obvious answer to the mystery (communications blackout around trump's visit) but the media here is still foaming at the mouth and speculating wildly about the guy's fate (his facebook page was briefly reactivated the other day, what could it mean???). fucking vultures. if there was a way their reporting could actually get the guy detained for real they would gladly do it just to be able to say 'i told you so' and start baying at the moon for war. australia is a stupid and bad country for idiot
#1142
e: wrong thread
#1143
he was allegedly detained but has already been released, left the country, and is "safe and well". that's what the prime minister announced in parliament today anyway, no word from the horses mouth just yet
#1144

He was mobbed by reporters on arrival and refused to say anything about what actually happened, my guess is nothing much and he's planning to go back.
#1145
Latest is that KCNA reports he was caught "spying" by passing data and images to anti-DPRK media. Given the timing I could imagine he might have caught wind of the trump visit and said something to a journalist? Pure speculation. Anyway they're puffing their chests up about having merely expelled him as a 'humanitarian act' after he owned up to whatever he was accused of. I... am inclined to think this was a misunderstanding that got out of hand. A shame, as he was a rare humanising western voice on DPRK. In any case he'll not be elaborating on what happened and his father has said he was well treated, so the good news is no more imperialist hay can really be made of this story