#16401

cars posted:

someone forwarded me the Wikipedia article on the Taft-Katsura Agreement, which is now my new favorite example of exactly why and how Wikipedia is bad


The Taft-Katsura Agreement (not actually an "agreement") was not an agreement. It was a record of an inconsequential chat, not an agreement. It was not an agreement,

#16402
The so-called "agreement" was not a secret, but no one saw it until 20 years later.
(8 paragraphs later)
These innocent conversations that no one needs to be ashamed of, and which did not constitute a secret treaty, were kept secret for 20 years.

Because we know the conversations did not represent the official position of any government or office, expert historians have determined that president Theodore Roosevelt must have just been kidding when he said "Your conversation with Count Katsura absolutely correct in every respect. Wish that you would state to Katsura that I confirm every word you said,"
#16403
Ephebophilia is not pedophilia; the majority of so-called and maligned pedofffffffffff
#16404

c_man posted:

Bablu posted:


are quasi pop science ppl like kahneman worth reading?


it really depends on what you want out of it. the important thing to know about them, imo, is that those books are all designed to be read by businesspeople on plane flights or whatever. they have some interesting bits but all of the interpretation done by the author is going to be framed as something thats valuable for Making Important Decisions, or as why their field should be funded.



yeah i skimmed some of it and it was neat-ish. just wanted to know if it's important enough among bigtime ppl to be able to knock it apart at the water cooler etc or is my time spent better in other ways

depends on who i'm around i guess

Edited by Bablu ()

#16405
"Rjensen", the guy responsible for the current state of the Taft-Katsura Agreement article, is a sort of hundred-armed clown of Wikipedia if you're into spotting that sort of thing in the wild... He's a living fossil of the old guard of computer-janitor libertarian, the sort of guy who maintains single-handed an article claiming there's a separate, defined thing known as "republicanism" in the United States that's not the same as "democracy". If you find an article that reeks like the Worst D&D Poster thread in its heyday, "Rjensen" probably perches on top of it like a corpulent vulture and screeches at anyone who tries to touch it
#16406
https://anatomyof.ai/

Anatomy of an AI System
The Amazon Echo as an anatomical map of human labor, data and planetary resources

One illustration of the difficulty of investigating and tracking the contemporary production chain process is that it took Intel more than four years to understand its supply line well enough to ensure that no tantalum from the Congo was in its microprocessor products. As a semiconductor chip manufacturer, Intel supplies Apple with processors. In order to do so, Intel has its own multi-tiered supply chain of more than 19,000 suppliers in over 100 countries providing direct materials for their production processes, tools and machines for their factories, and logistics and packaging services. That it took over four years for a leading technology company just to understand its own supply chain, reveals just how hard this process can be to grasp from the inside, let alone for external researchers, journalists and academics.

#16407
I can appreciate what they're trying to do there but I'm really sick of that style of tortured academic writing that invents words unnecessarily and treats indigenous mythology as something to be taken seriously only insofar as it facilitates a smug aside. It's too cute a treatment of a seriously depressing topic
#16408

slipdisco posted:

https://anatomyof.ai/Anatomy of an AI System
The Amazon Echo as an anatomical map of human labor, data and planetary resources



One illustration of the difficulty of investigating and tracking the contemporary production chain process is that it took Intel more than four years to understand its supply line well enough to ensure that no tantalum from the Congo was in its microprocessor products. As a semiconductor chip manufacturer, Intel supplies Apple with processors. In order to do so, Intel has its own multi-tiered supply chain of more than 19,000 suppliers in over 100 countries providing direct materials for their production processes, tools and machines for their factories, and logistics and packaging services. That it took over four years for a leading technology company just to understand its own supply chain, reveals just how hard this process can be to grasp from the inside, let alone for external researchers, journalists and academics.



good read thanks

i tried to figure out the opium->oxy supply chain at one point and got nowhere so good/shitty to hear it's difficult for the professionals

#16409

cars posted:

"Rjensen", the guy responsible for the current state of the Taft-Katsura Agreement article, is a sort of hundred-armed clown of Wikipedia if you're into spotting that sort of thing in the wild... He's a living fossil of the old guard of computer-janitor libertarian, the sort of guy who maintains single-handed an article claiming there's a separate, defined thing known as "republicanism" in the United States that's not the same as "democracy". If you find an article that reeks like the Worst D&D Poster thread in its heyday, "Rjensen" probably perches on top of it like a corpulent vulture and screeches at anyone who tries to touch it



Can someone more savvy than me go through and undo the instances where he replaces cited descriptions like "an ofshoot of the KKK" with "a local group"?

#16410

Caesura109 posted:

Can someone more savvy than me go through and undo the instances where he replaces cited descriptions like "an ofshoot of the KKK" with "a local group"?


no, no one can.

that guy's heavily entrenched in the editor clique pecking order and has mastered Jimbo's Rules Of Order, he get to decide what's true on wikipedia and everyone else gets a pedantic lecture on Wikipedia's Criteria for Notability and Reliable Sources if they disagree

#16411
those, and the Neutral Point Of View which does a whole lot of the heavy lifting
#16412
some hawk on how amerika lost control of the rare earth supply chain to china. lots of good references linked in the article

The game began in earnest in 1980, when the United States made two moves that gave its opponent an advantage it has never relinquished. One was industrial: Molycorp, then the country’s largest rare earth mining and processing company, began transferring its processing technology to China (as detailed by Boston University professor Julie Michelle Klinger in Rare Earth Frontiers). The other was regulatory: although rare earths are most easily and cheaply obtained as a byproduct of mining for other minerals, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the IAEA in 1980 more or less inadvertently placed this activity under the same regulations as mining nuclear fuel. Within a decade and a half, all U.S. producers of heavy rare earths shut down. Today, China gets most of its rare earths as a no-cost byproduct of iron ore mining, while the U.S. runs one expensive, low-value specialty mine: the Mountain Pass operation in California.
Over the following two decades, China raced to cement its global dominance in the field. It established the world’s largest rare earth research facility. Chinese researchers filed for their first international rare earth patent in 1983; within fourteen years, the total number of Chinese patent filings in the field exceeded that of the U.S., which had been working in the field since 1950. And Beijing was using its leverage as the world’s top producer of rare earths to acquire or import U.S. technology companies specializing in metals, alloys, magnets, and integrated rare earth components.
Perhaps our worst blunder came in 1995, when Congress allowed China to buy Magnequench, the only U.S. producer of magnets for our most advanced guided missiles; and GA Powders, a producer of rare earth magnetic powders. Acquired by the family of Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping, Magnequench shut its U.S. facility seven years later, ending America’s ability to produce magnets key to missiles and other weapons.

#16413
The Strategic Missile Defense Megathread 2019: Fucking magnet production. How does it work? (56k nonproliferation treaty)
#16414
looking forward to china jacking up the prices of rare metals and then parking all that money in american financial institutions and saving the dollar once again like saudis did
#16415
Read Sabrina - a graphic novel my youngest sister got me for Christmas. The simplicity of the style captured the alienation of the characters working through tragedy amid media spectacle out of their control. But the general message was that those trying to figure out what is going on in the world behind the constant barrage of shocking incidents are crazy and possibly dangerous. This hostility towards thinking in terms of totality was unnerving, to be honest. And it seemed to assume that the denizens of what is misleadingly called “post truth”’politics are only far right, when they in fact are part of a much wider malaise.

Edited by RedMaistre ()

#16416
i read jmps zer0 b00k, i found it to be a little bit circular in argumentation and repeating itself but all in all it gave me a good grasp on how exactly MLM (or at least MLM according to the RCP PCR line i guess) sees it self as different on ML MZT (lol at the implicit suggestion of him not feeling like a petty bourgeois academic guy because he doesnt have tenure or whatever though)

also i read one book (in dutch) edited by ludo martens containg 22 biographical pieces by belgian women with some kind of background from various oppressed and colonized nations. its from like 1992 so the intro by LM is very clunky and contains some language that wouldnt fly in this day and age (the title of the book translates to "ten colored women"), but the actual testimonials of belgian chauvinism, racism, colonial attitudes etc are essentially totally unchanged vs contemporary attitudes there. would rec, but i think it was not translated to french so its only available in duthc

finally as a xmas gift i got one czech childrens book celebrating the accomplishments of mao (published in the cssr pre sino soviet split), very cute
#16417
looking for a good, academic text on the definitions and distinctions between what constitutes private property and personal property, any suggestions?
#16418

das kapital volume 1


kidding around, he doesn't really go into the distinction between private and personal property, mostly just concerns what private property is. idk about books that delve into the topic. on a related note, i wish my dentist would let me keep the toothbrush instead of requiring me to set up daily appointments
#16419
im takin a big ass long ass plane trip what are some reading reccos. i have the new jmp book and i skimmed it and it was cool but i need to do a Deep Read
#16420

Caesura109 posted:

looking for a good, academic text on the definitions and distinctions between what constitutes private property and personal property, any suggestions?



a couple longish entries (complete with subsections) in the MIA encyclopedia seem to summarize Marx pretty well

https://www.marxists.org/encyclopedia/terms/p/r.htm#property
https://www.marxists.org/encyclopedia/terms/p/r.htm#private-property

in a certain sense the two are the same: "fundamental social relations in which the relations between people are expressed in the relation between people and things." as private property evolved and reached a high enough stage of development to encompass means of production, wage labor, etc, then it became useful to draw the distinction in question. A simplification might go: when speaking of exclusive rights, we say "private property" where we refer to relations of production or exploitation, and "personal property" for relations of consumption or use.

anecdotally, i've seen the distinction crop up more in anarchist (e.g. this) than communist lit. i guess one could claim a certain logic to this, given the fundamentally petit-bourgeois roots of anarchism -- there's more of an imperative in the core than the periphery to have to clarify to one's peers, "no, don't worry, we're not taking your stuff." but this is just me indulging in some armchair theorizing, a fun thing to do

the other thing is, i don't know that there's really enough to say just in terms of defining or delimiting these terms to warrant an entire book

Edited by Constantignoble ()

#16421

littlegreenpills posted:

im takin a big ass long ass plane trip what are some reading reccos. i have the new jmp book and i skimmed it and it was cool but i need to do a Deep Read



any topics of interest in particular?

if you're likely to add a novel to your carry-on, i just finished The Traitor Baru Cormorant and found it superb

#16422

Caesura109 posted:

looking for a good, academic text on the definitions and distinctions between what constitutes private property and personal property, any suggestions?



this is not academic and maybe not precise, but property is a relationship between classes, it mediates how the classes all interact. private property is the name of the relationship between the working class and the labor controlling class, personal property is a relationship between the working class and the lumpen. your car that you rent to a friend who's an uber driver, is a different property relationship than driving your car to the market, is different than your car covered in tickets getting auctioned off by the police, or relocated by some independent lumpen.

readin' Red Star Over China now... lgp i'd recommend it...there's enough primary, witnessed history as to apply it to your present situation that, it's as deep as you want it to be. or it can be an adventure story

#16423

toyotathon posted:

this is not academic and maybe not precise, but property is a relationship between classes, it mediates how the classes all interact. private property is the name of the relationship between the working class and the labor controlling class, personal property is a relationship between the working class and the lumpen. your car that you rent to a friend who's an uber driver, is a different property relationship than driving your car to the market, is different than your car covered in tickets getting auctioned off by the police, or relocated by some independent lumpen.



the way i see people use "personal property" -- your phone, your easel, your shirt -- generally refers to a relation of exclusivity in disposal. so, surely this is a relation that inheres not only between classes but also within them. the guy who clocks in and works beside me and then goes home to the same apartment complex is just as strongly forbidden from breaking into my apartment and snatching books off my shelf as anyone else. if anything, the lumpen example to me seems to illustrate the opposite: rather than upholding or reproducing the relation, it specifically undermines or even extinguishes it, whether empowered to do so (the cop) or not (the indie)

#16424

Constantignoble posted:

the way i see people use "personal property" -- your phone, your easel, your shirt -- generally refers to a relation of exclusivity in disposal. so, surely this is a relation that inheres not only between classes but also within them. the guy who clocks in and works beside me and then goes home to the same apartment complex is just as strongly forbidden from breaking into my apartment and snatching books off my shelf as anyone else. if anything, the lumpen example to me seems to illustrate the opposite: rather than upholding or reproducing the relation, it specifically undermines or even extinguishes it, whether empowered to do so (the cop) or not (the indie)



i think we're saying the same thing on the angle that personal property gets its characteristics, when it's held in relation to its absence. and you're sayin disposal's enough to ID it (which doesn't need a class interaction), i was saying theft. maybe we could probably even expand on the absences to figure out its other characteristics, to the time before something's owned, like that the personal property came from raw materials and required labor to create its value. and to the time after ownership, stuff can break or get lost.

if your coworker tho breaks in to jack some of your stuff, then that day he made money as part of two classes. or maybe 3 if stocks he owns did good. i'm trying to think of counterexamples... like if i don't have any intention of ever throwing my bike away, or i own something very durable, or something so large that realistically it won't ever get lost -- it's still my personal property. in those cases the only absence that'd give them the characteristic of being my property today is, the possibility of somebody taking them.

maybe a better example than a car, or shelf of books, is a laptop you run a microbusiness on, plus read rhizzone and listen to music, both private and personal property. and maybe a way to think about the lumpen relation to personal property is if somehow all personal property was unstealable, lumpen-proofed -- or some communal understanding w/ a guy like your coworker who comes in to borrow shit.

#16425
ok, i think i see what you're driving at, though i would clarify my emphasis was more on exclusivity than disposal per se. the former is what very distinctly places expectations and strictures on the behavior of others in relation to you, embodied in some external use-value; the latter is just one of its termini

you're discussing the horizon over which the good doesn't change, but the social relations it expresses do; I was considering the orthogonal one, in which the relation holds unchallenged until it is the form of the use-value that is ultimately terminated. so we're really just grabbing two different parts of the elephant, as you've surmised

good thinking, useful stuff
#16426
haa and the parasite classes got us both ways. as the good loses value over time thru wear, unless we can fix it with what we've got sitting around us, or do without, we're back to the market. or it can rapidly lose its value to us when the lumpen class controls our physical space in order separate us from our things. so how do we fix both

Edited by toyotathon ()

#16427
https://www.thenation.com/article/meet-europes-left-nationalists/
#16428

sovnarkoman posted:

https://www.thenation.com/article/meet-europes-left-nationalists/



something something social fascism

#16429
As much as we all like to go to bat for Corbyn or Melenchon, they're all just Mitterrand and will do shit like be complicit in genocides and implement neoliberal policies in other nations once elected

it feels like selling your soul to defend and advocate for these people, but things are just so dogshit right now, we're in a position where its the only way to save countless lives, and also it would be cool to see billionaires lose some money and israel get snubbed and stuff

Edited by Fayafi ()

#16430

Caesura109 posted:

As much as we all like to go to bat for Corbyn or Melenchon,


huh? what?

#16431

lo posted:

Caesura109 posted:

As much as we all like to go to bat for Corbyn or Melenchon,

huh? what?



in terms of organizing, voting, even stuff like a lot of us who have/had a twitter were/do celebrate blumenthal and others' endorsements of these politicians

not that people haven't gone to bat for corbyn here - and i don't mean going to bat for social democracy, i mean going to bat for the candidate and from a "pragmatic" electoralist view

Edited by Fayafi ()

#16432
That article is so full of shit. Yeah, I go to bat for Mélenchon, I like pugnacious French petty bourgeoise posers, whatever! His program specifically says that immigration is not a problem and he'd regularize all the sans-papiers in France. There was a famous moment in one of the debates where, when asked what he'd do for the sans-papiers he said he'd give them papers. Putting him in with people like Wageknecht is ridiculous, he's been the most consistent defender of immigrants, and in combative terms, among almost any Western bourgeois politician. Oh, but he's anti Brussels so obviously he's just a brun peste in disguise.

Fuck the nation, and fuck The Nation magazine!
#16433
I stand corrected about Melenchon
#16434
wait so the quotes are wrong or what
#16435
if you click thru the links the bread quote links to one hit piece in the guardian calling melenchon "pro putin" and then to some article on the website of the SWP (UK) lol.

this is the quote (from melenchons speech)
"Je crois que l’Europe qui a été construite, c’est une Europe de la violence sociale, comme nous le voyons dans chaque pays chaque fois qu’arrive un travailleur détaché, qui vole son pain aux travailleurs qui se trouvent sur place."

my crude tranl. "i believe that the europe that has been constructed is a europe of social violence, such as we see it in every country every time when a "detached" worker arrives, who steals his bread from workers that are in place"

with detached workers i believe he means specifically eu workers who come to work in one country but are formally under the system of another country. for example the in western europe highly common practice of hiring workers officially from some polish ghost company so different (more lenient and cheaper for employers) labor laws apply (e.g. polish minimum wage is 480 EUR, french one ~1500). these kind of practices are currently allowed under eu law in many cases if you hire some decent lawyers to do everything by the book. doesnt seem problematic to call that out

Edited by lenochodek ()

#16436
Nice to see the fact of the asssasination of Hammarskjold is now acceptable within the Overton window https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/12/former-raf-pilot-shot-down-un-chief-dag-hammarskjold-1961-plane
#16437
The quotes about Melenchon not favoring freedom of arrival is linked as from this french language document in Liberation
Using google translate, this is what he says (feel free to point out a better construal of the original words):
Jean-Luc Mélenchon said he was in favor of "regularization of undocumented workers but not for the permanent relocation of the world, for goods or for human beings". He also said, "I have never been for freedom of installation and I will not start today. If 10,000 doctors came to France, would that be a chance? Yes..."'

.....On the subject of migrants and refugees, he replies: "If we do not want people to come, it is better that they do not leave . And we must stop believing that people leave for pleasure. So let's shut down the causes of their departure one after the other. They are very simple, it's war and misery. "A few lines later, he admits to being" tired "of discussions" where fantasies clash with each other ". On the one hand, "those who scream without thinking and rely on safe expedients." On the other, "those for whom it is normal for everyone to be able to settle where they want, when they want. Passport, visas and borders would not exist. "This in-between has earned him criticism on the left: his old friends and new enemies have been staring at him for a while.

https://www.liberation.fr/france/2016/09/08/immigration-melenchon-en-mots-troubles_1490156
#16438
e: nvm
#16439
ne1 read the new china book from mobo gao? https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745399812/constructing-china/
i read gao village recently which i thought was very insightful
#16440

ronpaul :itshappening: