#121
elect a pug as president of the usa; president pug sits around and watches anime all day
#122

tears posted:

Even though the water smells rotten, it's safe to drink, according to aUStin Water officials



smelly water is often entirely safe to drink. especially when it comes straight out of your tap

#123
so say austin wAter official
#124
That's not water you're drinking from the hose, but ideology.
#125

Belphegor posted:

U know what's good? cold Water straight from the garden hose



this is NOT food safe if you work on a farm

#126

babyhueypnewton posted:

The end point is inevitably the end of national politics. Something very reactionary will replace it but only Steve Bannon seems to have an idea of what that is. But what will replace that, if humanity survives, is the progressive end of national politics. Sanders will be remembered about as well as Kerensky when that world comes into being, though Kerensky was far more radical.


Maybe you're just depressed! You need a vacation! Take a me day!

#127

Lysenko posted:

Belphegor posted:

U know what's good? cold Water straight from the garden hose

this is NOT food safe if you work on a farm


plenty of farm workers refresh themselves with smelly but entirely safe potable water straight from the garden hose like a dog while relaxing at home

#128
#129
if Bernie wins at least we'll get to hate an amerikkkan president in interesting ways, like calling him a Social Fascist or whatever
#130
reactionary president: nazis are riled up and take more violent action
left-liberal president: nazis are riled up and take more violent action??
hmmm. hmm
#131

drwhat posted:

reactionary president: nazis are riled up and take more violent action
left-liberal president: nazis are riled up and take more violent action??
hmmm. hmm


Yeah maybe. I think that's already happening. Kind of worth another thread but the guys popping off now remind me of the Weather Underground in a way.

The Nazis spent several years organizing, projected onto Trump their own views, and then tried to carry out a performative mock-putsch. They are really wrapped up in politics as "expression" where they think marching around in a big unit wearing flashy outfits is the path to power. Reminds me of something Mark Rudd said about the New Left where they thought the working masses would awake if the vanguard forces just ran down the street waving the NLF flag. Turns out that didn't happen so the more radical groups turned to terror as a more direct act of "expression." ('Well, clearly the problem is that we haven't been loud enough.')

Other problems the Nazis had include overestimating their own numbers and the potential support they thought they had, while underestimating the strength of the system. They thought they'd just crush their enemies on the street with the help from the police and then use that as a springboard to take their rallies national. There's the "cops and Klan go hand in hand" saying but I'm more into "some of those who work forces" as analysis, because the police went in afterwards and tore the guts out of several of these groups. Trump is also sort of an albatross and some groups don't think they can regain momentum until after 2020, whatever happens. It's kind of interesting they are so wrapped up in election cycles -- they really are like liberals in a way -- but that's a whole other thing.

#132

trakfactri posted:

they thought the working masses would awake if the vanguard forces just ran down the street waving the NFL flag


#133

tears posted:

trakfactri posted:

they thought the working masses would awake if the vanguard forces just ran down the street waving the NFL flag



#134

Lysenko posted:

Belphegor posted:

U know what's good? cold Water straight from the garden hose

this is NOT food safe if you work on a farm



solid agricultural advice from lysenko as always

#135

odobenidae posted:



#136

babyhueypnewton posted:

Capitalism doesn't need a consumer base, production itself is sufficient demand



i dont understand this part, isnt production aimed at satisfying the consumer base? like the roberts article you linked says that inter-enterprise exchange is a big part but what is the use of inter-enterprise exchange if not for production of commodities for direct consumers?

#137
producing a commodity for a consumer is the tug at the string that gets the engine running (consider the transition of commodity production from the simple pre-capitalist forms to the present), but under expanded reproduction we can't simply consider the system in terms of resolution to v+s. that's actually the crux of marx's critique of adam smith in capital vol 2 -- that there's a major part of capitalist production that never resolves itself to wages or profits, that just pipes back into a self-perpetuating mass of ever-expanding capital
#138
my partner (in the u.k) said i should make an effort to talk to and maybe find common ground with/learn something from people if bernie rallies come to my neck of the woods. she's no reformist by any means. should i do it?
#139
are you scheduled to be doing anything more effective those nights?
#140
Pitch a tent outside with various black-and-white signs that say things like "Down With Bernie 'Social Fascist' Sanders" and "Support the Degenerated Workers State: Defend the Democratic People's Republic of Korea's Right to Nuclear Weapons!"
#141

toyotathon posted:

are you scheduled to be doing anything more effective those nights?


lol fuuuck no

#142

psychicdriver posted:

my partner (in the u.k) said i should make an effort to talk to and maybe find common ground with/learn something from people if bernie rallies come to my neck of the woods. she's no reformist by any means. should i do it?


let me talk to her... about the fact that i tried this and found out that most bernie supporters are downwardly mobile petit-bourgeois trying to revive home ownership and while there's a popular demand for social-democratic programs this popular character is not necessarily reflected in his diehard supporters.

#143
(i figured as much)
#144
seems like there are lots of radical leftists who are on board the bernie train tho, what am i not seeing yhere
#145
i made an effortpost a few years ago quoting lenin about why i thought it was worthwhile to support bernie while still being somewhat critical, as a necessary step in radicalising people as they realise that socialism that doesn't take radical actions can only fail, arguing that's basically what happened in russia with the two revolutions in 1917. however, the thread consensus was that the KKE were correct, and supporting social democratic candidates is a betrayal of the working class.
although stalin did support popular fronts against fascism, so part of me still feels that it's somewhat the correct way for americans.
does democratic centralism allow for re-fighting old fights? you could argue that after trump, the calculus has changed somewhat.
#146
great, an assortment of geriatric white men fighting it out to be head of the stupidest place in all of human history
#147

tears posted:

great, an assortment of geriatric white men fighting it out to be head of the stupidest place in all of human history


where'd you get this liberal criticism of the soviet union from the 1980s? it worked so well for them when they picked gorbachev...

#148

ghostpinballer posted:

seems like there are lots of radical leftists who are on board the bernie train tho, what am i not seeing yhere



whether they're class-conscious?? guessing they sandwich class between race and gender as an oppression

#149

Red_Canadian posted:

i made an effortpost a few years ago quoting lenin about why i thought it was worthwhile to support bernie while still being somewhat critical, as a necessary step in radicalising people as they realise that socialism that doesn't take radical actions can only fail, arguing that's basically what happened in russia with the two revolutions in 1917. however, the thread consensus was that the KKE were correct, and supporting social democratic candidates is a betrayal of the working class.
although stalin did support popular fronts against fascism, so part of me still feels that it's somewhat the correct way for americans.
does democratic centralism allow for re-fighting old fights? you could argue that after trump, the calculus has changed somewhat.


The ISO here (lol) had a bunch of people excited for Bernie show up and they told them "we don't like Bernie go away" so now this chapter has all but collapsed while the DSAers are numerous and now reading Marx. Speaks for itself.

#150
it's fine to support sanders if you do so sullenly with much foot dragging.
#151
Bernie is socialism at home and barbarism abroad, CIVIL WAR ON THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTINETN NOW
#152
tHE rHizzonE officially gives its endorsement of critical support for the enthusiastic imperialist mass murderer. health care for some, cluster bombs and contras for everyone else. we are so fucking pumped for the new head hitler in charge
#153
i mean, is there any other candidates that have better views on foreign policy?

pre-empting the usual argument
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chFaesfO7fQ
#154
whats changed from last time that wouls mean berny sander would win a democrat nomination
#155

Red_Canadian posted:

i mean, is there any other candidates that have better views on foreign policy?

pre-empting the usual argument
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chFaesfO7fQ



In modern states, as in Hegel's Philosophy of Right, the conscious, true actuality of public affairs is merely formal, or only what is formal constitutes actual public affairs.

Hegel is not to be blamed for depicting the nature of the modern state as it is, but rather for presenting what is as the essence of the state. The claim that the rational is actual is contradicted precisely by an irrational actuality, which everywhere is the contrary of what it asserts and asserts the contrary of what it is.

Instead of showing how public affairs exists for-itself, 'subjectively, and thus actually as such', and that it also has the form of public affairs, Hegel merely shows that formlessness is its subjectivity; and a form without content must be formless. The form which public affairs obtains in a state which is not the state of public affairs can be nothing but a non-form, a self-deceiving, self-contradicting form, a form which is pure appearance and which will betray itself as this appearance.



https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/ch04.htm

You've gone backwards

#156

tears posted:

whats changed from last time that wouls mean berny sander would win a democrat nomination


Trump. But I dunno.

Incidentally, it's kind of interesting to observe the fascists shuffling like a pile of ants over to Yang and his UBI scheme. I don't have anything to say about Yang except that this is laying the groundwork for a future reboot of the (frequently anti-Semitic) "social credit" parties of the 1930s. William Dudley Pelley, etc. I saw one fascist predict that "Classical Marxism is going to be making a strong comeback ... and if we don't stop being racist republicans, the tankies will roll right over us."

#157
wouldn't basically any candidate for american president have to deal with the deep state? i'm continuing my argument, that a social democratic government is doomed to fail, because it makes promises that it would not be able to keep. it was the foreign policy especially that caused the collapse of the social democratic government in Russia in 1917, since they were opposed to ending the war. it was this betrayal that led to the massive increase in support for the bolsheviks, as people thought that was what the revolution was for.
by showing the contradictions between what the march revolution promised, and what it delivered, the bolsheviks were able to gain the mass base that allowed them to successfully launch the first successful communist revolution.
lenin wrote against the dangers of ultra-leftism, and i fear that is what is what is preventing the rhizzone from gaining wider support.
what do you feel are the correct actions to take for american leftists, to work towards a successful revolution that is internationalist? keeping yourself aloof of the people has been a failing strategy in america for years. if you feel that any movement towards communism is doomed to fail in the united states, i can understand that, but as my country tends to follow american politics, as well as the fact that american governments have materially affected politics in it as well, hopefully you can understand why i tend to follow their politics and work towards illustrating the contradictions that exist between their rhetoric and their actions.
#158
Communist Manifesto, Chapter IV. You ally with the social democrats but also take up a critical position towards them. But kinda feels like no one is filling that space. I either see ultra-leftism or they're feeling the Bern.

#159
my favorite yang policy proposal is his anti-nuclear proliferation plan: offer to buy weapons-grade fissile materials from non-nuke weapons states at exorbitant prices. what a brilliant mind
#160
the only yang policy proposals i want to see involve learning to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone