#321
Citing hegel is for nerds imo
#322
We need disciplined cadre, not hegel-knowing dweebazoids

if you must study hegel, do so via books on tape at the gym or in between sparring sessions in your MMA class
#323
lmao if u havent read every book
#324

tears posted:

lmao if u havent read every book

One of these days I'll read a book.

#325
what's the deal with marcyism? like what's the deal with it?

the WWP is still committed to his "global class war" theory but, as far as i know, the PSL's distanced themselves from it without fully replacing it with an international platform independent of it. the basic ideological crux of the US maoist movement in relation to all the other parties is their opposition to marcyism but it's like the least developed aspect of their national strategy, even though it poses a far larger obstacle to them in practical terms. thus far i've known PSL members who've come into direct conflict with maoists and i know of maoists who've come into conflict with the PSL. but no one really talks about that shit; they just write each other off as neo-trots or something.

what's the deal with that?
#326
DONT join an organization. how bout dem apples
#327

animedad posted:

DONT join an organization. how bout dem apples


MODS

#328
yeah i have to say i wouldnt recommend joining an organization. forming one, however....
#329
im forming a "joint org" right now :420:
#330
I've been doing dsa meetings and book groups for a while and it's ok but I think I'd like to be doing something more marxo and focused. Anyone know any good orgs in Boston
#331

autopsyturvey posted:

I've been doing dsa meetings and book groups for a while and it's ok but I think I'd like to be doing something more marxo and focused. Anyone know any good orgs in Boston


http://www.massproletariat.info/ wb btw

#332

autopsyturvey posted:

I've been doing dsa meetings and book groups for a while and it's ok but I think I'd like to be doing something more marxo and focused. Anyone know any good orgs in Boston



PSL

#333
DSA was terrible in Wilmington DE (a bunch of white lazy liberals who just want to "make the website"), but Network Delaware is pretty phenomenal.

Went to a committee meeting for providing economic resources to the poor. Lot of great ideas.

Going to a committee tonight which has the explicit goal of disrupting the prison pipeline by organizing the resources available (and lobbying for improvement of those resources) for homeless people, at-risk youth, etc, and providing extensive training to a pilot group of local pigs. I guess the cops explicitly have only two options right now for a bunch of problems---ignore or arrest? This group is working with the local govt to make it explicit that diversion (transporting people to shelters, support orgs, etc) is an option, and the preferred option. I don't understand the background, the groundwork laid, or the details fully at this time, but I have wanted to get involved in prison outreach or something related.
#334
restorative justice programs are a possible option if youre into bourgeois reforms, but at this point establishing dual power as yall are chatting about is probably the better way to go
#335
I mean, the restorative justice I know is about uniting people and empowering them to resolve things and be in a better position. no sure what's bourgeois about that. oppression destroys families and limits their resources to deal with harm from all angles
#336
the theory is sound, the work itself is genuinely effective, but if you're working for a program or organization that actually gets funding and access to people entangled in the prison system you don't really get to apply it on behalf of the people it's actually meant for. i knew a couple people who got really frustrated with the field.

for the most part you won't be doing restorative justice work to heal violence in marginalized communities and rehabilitate oppressed peoples abused by the law, you'll be running a healing session between a rich white kid who shoplifted once on a lark and the nice understanding manager who isn't pressing charges. because those are the people who actually get granted access to the programs, and you have no control over it.

or worse, you'll spend years building connections and trust in a community, and then the cops will demand that you be their catspaw in the area and run Reconciliation meetings on behalf of one of their thugs in uniform who beat some poor kid within an inch of his life. the cops, parole boards, everyone else in the justice system will treat you and your work with utter contempt and take every opportunity to manipulate you into letting them abuse the trust you work so hard to foster.

which isn't to say a person could never do any good, but have no illusions, bastards will try to subvert your work at every turn. the same rule of thumb goes as for anything else touching the prison system: get ready for unreasonable demands and cruel bullshit, and the more you refuse to go along with the bullshit the more you will be denied access to the people you want to actually help.
#337

shriekingviolet posted:

the theory is sound, the work itself is genuinely effective, but if you're working for a program or organization that actually gets funding and access to people entangled in the prison system you don't really get to apply it on behalf of the people it's actually meant for. i knew a couple people who got really frustrated with the field.

for the most part you won't be doing restorative justice work to heal violence in marginalized communities and rehabilitate oppressed peoples abused by the law, you'll be running a healing session between a rich white kid who shoplifted once on a lark and the nice understanding manager who isn't pressing charges. because those are the people who actually get granted access to the programs, and you have no control over it.

or worse, you'll spend years building connections and trust in a community, and then the cops will demand that you be their catspaw in the area and run Reconciliation meetings on behalf of one of their thugs in uniform who beat some poor kid within an inch of his life. the cops, parole boards, everyone else in the justice system will treat you and your work with utter contempt and take every opportunity to manipulate you into letting them abuse the trust you work so hard to foster.

which isn't to say a person could never do any good, but have no illusions, bastards will try to subvert your work at every turn. the same rule of thumb goes as for anything else touching the prison system: get ready for unreasonable demands and cruel bullshit, and the more you refuse to go along with the bullshit the more you will be denied access to the people you want to actually help.



this completely meshes with my experience getting an RJ reform passed in my city and then watching the nonprofit i was working alongside bring multiple police departments (school, city, and sheriffs because of course the US has school police departments, did you think for a second it wouldnt be that terrible) and DA into program administration. the pilot had many clauses exempting their participation at multiple levels, but that doesnt really stop the sponsor or the city from doing whatever the fuck they want. working on it was a net positive, imo, because atm it keeps about 80 PoC kids a year out of the local machine. but at the same time, the system fought back by adding the cops themselves into the referral process, the city councilor passed a curfew in the area (despite a lower crime rate than certain largely-white neighborhoods) which has dramatically increased 'disproportionate minority contact' (fuck your euphemism DoJ), and schools are volunteering their campuses for processing kids caught in the curfew sweep.

when i moved back and saw all this happening i just couldnt work on similar projects anymore and it broke me emotionally for quite a while tbh

Edited by JohnBeige ()

#338

glomper_stomper posted:

what's the deal with marcyism? like what's the deal with it?



i too wonder about this. when i see people reference the whole "global class war" thing, it's often in a derisive or dismissive way

i was just perusing some of the old doccos outlining it. if GCW-theory's whole deal is

• warfare can and generally does have a class character (e.g., his go-to example was the Korean War)
• it should be analyzed in the broader context of geopolitics with this understanding (a point supplemented by the recognition that bourgeois ideology already views it this way)

then that seems pretty... uncontroversial? i feel like i'm missing something, but i admit Marcy's stuff is kind of a slog and i've jumped around a few times. maybe someone who's had more time to digest it can shed some light?

Edited by Constantignoble ()

#339
it doesnt mean anything. it was a way to split from the swp sixty years ago. thats it
#340
it was a way for trots to agree with MLs, start two organizations that are indistinguishable from MLs, and then become the only ML game in town
#341
I think being social is good but socialist? no thx
#342
I'm gonna just type for mim for a while.
#343

stegosaurus posted:

it doesnt mean anything. it was a way to split from the swp sixty years ago. thats it

agreed... sam marcy was the michael harrington of worker's world.