#121

tpaine posted:

every book is real


prove it, by posting your book

#122
I have tpaines book but our friendship is special and I don't break those bonds for any amount of money less than $20
#123
I don't have T-Paine's book about war and socialism but I do have his book about the band Yes which is three leather-bound volumes
#124

getfiscal posted:

Yes



#125
[account deactivated]
#126
beginning of this video is how i imagine my rhizzone peeps whenever i make a post

#127
Compare it to

"I understand that because this is an election season, expectations for what we will achieve this year are light"
#128
remember that thing zizek (i know) said about how a fascist leader like hitler just stands there and soaks up applause while a communist leader like stalin also claps with the crowd. hm really makes u think
#129
kim jong-un has much sexier voice.
#130
i was thinking he has a nice voice also. deep and smokey. hubba hubba.

Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()

#131
Semi-related:

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_northkorea/741144.html

Conservative groups take advantage of North Korean defectors’ poverty to mobilize them for political demonstrations

“What would I do if I stayed at home?”

Na Yeong-sik, a North Korea defector who came to South Korea about 10 years ago, made the remark as he recalled what had happened in 2014.

During the summer of that year, Na attended a demonstration that was held in front of the KBS building in Seoul’s Yeouido neighborhood. Demonstrators were protesting what they described as “malicious coverage” of a lecture by Moon Chang-geuk, then a nominee for prime minister, in which KBS allegedly took Moon’s words out of context. (During the lecture, Moon had said that “Japan’s colonization of South Korea was the will of God.”)

After hearing from a friend of his who worked for a defector organization, Na got on a bus with others in Seoul‘s Jongno district, and headed to the site of the demonstration. About 50 of the 200 or so people in the group were defectors.

“I guess that KBS had leaked this information because they didn’t want Moon Chang-geuk to be prime minister. So we were there for about an hour making some noise and asking why they wouldn’t let such a decent guy become prime minister. We just showed up like that,” Na said.

On the day of the demonstration, Na was paid 20,000 won (US$17.37) before he went home. The same year, Na earned the same amount of pocket money by attending three or four other demonstrations, including a rally calling for the conviction of Lee Seok-ki, former lawmaker with the Unified Progressive Party, in front of the Suwon District Court, and a rally by conservative groups opposed to the Sewol victims’ families.

The evidence is piling up that conservative groups - including the Korean Parent Federation and the Korean National Police Veterans Association - paid defectors to join demonstrations organized by conservative groups. This is leading to criticism that conservative groups have been taking political advantage of these defectors, who often struggle to get by, while only giving them a pittance for their trouble.

Defectors generally live close together in government-subsidized apartments in Incheon or the Nowon and Yangcheon Districts of Seoul, and they learn about these demonstrations through a web of acquaintances. The news originates at a “local boss,” a defector with a lot of connections who becomes the contact point e demonstration. This individual starts making phone calls or sending text messages to say that a demonstration is being organized and to tell the defectors where and when they should meet.

“If they need someone to bring out the defectors, there are brokers who can make it happen, whether they need 100 or 200 people,” said a source at a defector organization.

Each time they participate in a demonstration, defectors are paid about 20,000 won. Instead of cash, they are sometimes given free meals, electronics, dried seaweed or other gifts. “The method of payment is up to whoever is organizing the demonstration,” the source said.

“As the number of defectors taking part in these demonstrations has increased, the amount of money they are paid has fallen from 40,000 or 50,000 won to 20,000 won,” said one defector.

For defectors, joining the demonstrations is little different from the “gleaning” practiced by poor people in agricultural societies - following along behind farmers at harvest to pick up the crops they miss.
“These elderly people treasure every last coin,” the source said. “The 20,000 won they receive for attending these demonstrations helps them support themselves.”

Indeed, the majority of the defectors who participate in the demonstrations are in their 60s and 70s. It is hard for older defectors to find jobs, so they have to get by on 400,000 or 500,000 won a month in Basic Livelihood Benefits provided by the government.
But since this is barely enough to cover even their basic necessities, defectors make their way to demonstrations for the 20,000 won they are paid for attending.

“The defectors who appear in the demonstrations are the poorest of the poor. They can‘t pick up cardboard since the areas they live in already have people who do that. They used to get 50,000 won for joining the demonstrations, but now it’s 20,000 won. But they would show up even if they only got 10,000,” said a defector who preferred to remain anonymous. This defector said that he took part in demonstrations against North Korea in 2012 after North Korea shelled Yeonpyeong Island and sank the Cheonan corvette.

“For these people, it doesn’t matter whether it’s the right wing or the left wing that is organizing these demonstrations,” said a source at an organization that provides welfare to defectors. “While young people could at least find some kind of part-time job, it‘s especially hard for these people who are not only defectors but also elderly to find any work at all. Attending the demonstration is a kind of part-time job that these elderly people are using to make ends meet.”



If you don't know how defectors in South Korea live, it's basically in poverty, closely watched by the state, and pressured to contribute to anti-North propaganda when politics demands it. Ostensibly to teach defectors how to survive in the South as well as how to hide their Northern accents, in reality defectors go through a government propaganda program. At least thats the only reasonable explanation since defectors afterwards face widespread unemployment, discrimination, depression, and sexual violence. Many are taken care of by extreme fundamentalist evangelical christian groups while others, like in this article, are not even valuable enough in the flood of refugees since the 90s to properly sell themselves for propaganda purposes.

There are many papers about this but I found this story interesting because the north korean defector propaganda is actually right wing within South Korea but is uncritically accepted by 'liberals' in the West. There's an interesting story here as well wrt the right wing reaction to the pro-democracy left in SK trying the sunshine policy towards the north, protesting military occupation of Seoul and the Iraq war, and pro-unification labor movement in which the fundamentalist right in america and in south korea collaborated to create anti-north propaganda for the 21st century and suppress democracy at the same time, a struggle that has been mostly won

#132

thirdplace posted:

is it a permissible line to simultaneously think that nk is subject to over-the-top propganda and likely is not the orwellian hellscape that said propaganda/le average internet poster makes it out to be, but also that it compares very unfavorably to similarly-situated (at least) Cuba, that a three-generation-deep hereditary cult of personality is creepy and monarchist, and juche is an ideological dead-end to the extent that it even qualifies as an ideology?



how is it its 2016, youre still posting on a communist forum, and youre still that stupid

#133
urbandale correctly pointed out that i have no basis for saying anything about juche on way or the other but i'm not going to apologize for refusing to buy the idea that twice in a row the most qualified person to lead the party and state just happened to be the son of the last guy to do it,

i guess i'm open to the idea that western propaganda falsely makes cuban socialism seem more appealing and effective, or maybe that NK required the military first policy in a way that Cuba didn't? I like and respect you mr. crow so i'll give it a good hearing... but i gotta say i'm a little skeptical!!
#134
riddle me this: how do you know who leads North Korea?
#135
In fact the idea of leadership is mostly propaganda. Rather than a one party state, it's far more accurate to call socialist states zero party states for the same reason the American founding fathers loathed political parties. A class united only needs one party, it is only when the bourgeoisie becomes factionalized that political parties arise (proletarian parties are usually illegal for obvious reasons). The Worker's Party has a very narrow task (ensuring the continued path towards communism) while the actual government and legal system is determined by direct, universal suffrage from the community level up to the Supreme People's Assembly. That many government officials would be party members is no surprise, politicians aren't professionals under socialism so it takes a lot of devotion and sacrifice to do it, of course those same people would be passionate about socialism and the historic role of the WPK. But there is no necessary connection between the party and the government except for the very narrow function defined int he constitution.

The main justification for saying Kim Jong-un is "in power" is the idea that the military secretly runs the show (or not so secretly because of the 'songun' policy) and that the SPA and elected government are a rubber stamp for the party which really makes decisions. Put this way, I hope the propaganda of these ideas is obvious as well as their unfalsifiability. Once we remove the idea that everything in NK is secretly for show for white people at the center of the universe, the NK system functions exactly as it is defined in the constitution and exactly as the WPK says it does.

It should be no surprise Kim Jong-un is the leader of the WPK, the symbolic function of his family is powerful (in the same way as Park Geun-hye, Hillary Clinton, Benigno Aquino III, Keiko Fujimori, etc) but the actual power he has is not clear. What does power even mean in this context? Does he make all political and economic decisions? Clearly not, even an actual dictator like Napoleon III (another 'dynasty') was in reality a weak figure that moderated the fractured class interests of the Second Empire. I'm not opposed to analyzing the Kim family once the orientalism is removed but even if you think he's a 'dictator' give him the same due Marx gave Napoleon III instead of cold war paranoia.

Edited by babyhueypnewton ()

#136

thirdplace posted:

urbandale correctly pointed out that i have no basis for saying anything about juche on way or the other but i'm not going to apologize for refusing to buy the idea that twice in a row the most qualified person to lead the party and state just happened to be the son of the last guy to do it,

i guess i'm open to the idea that western propaganda falsely makes cuban socialism seem more appealing and effective, or maybe that NK required the military first policy in a way that Cuba didn't? I like and respect you mr. crow so i'll give it a good hearing... but i gotta say i'm a little skeptical!!



apologize for being a racist that emptily parrots spurious claims

The head of government in the DPRK is premier Pak Pong-ju. The head of state is the unrelated President of the Presidium Kim Yong-nam.

The Presidium and the Supreme People's Assembly are the legislative bodies of the DPRK and the premier heads the executive part of the government.

Kim Jong-un is first chairman of the National Defence Commission and has no say in making or establishing policy.

As a deputy to the SPA he has one vote.

"No investigation, shut the fuck up." -mao

Edited by Crow ()

#137
amazing the level of arrogance that supposed communists and 'leftists' show towards socialist states, not even researching the basic facts of those places. get it together, this is pure chauvinism.
#138
Yeah, and can I just reiterate, damn what a double standard to think that just a single functionary (not even the head of the government) having celebrated relatives serve in the same capacity before, is some unique and horrid special thing that makes the DPRK worthy of leper status in International Geopolitics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereditary_peer

In my country they have an entire unelected legislative chamber specifically designed for the grandchildren of the ruling elite. Seats in this chamber are for-life, unelected appointments which are handed down generationally (although recently the executive has been empowered to appoint some of the members of this chamber merely for life, without the guarantee extending to their children - which is usually hailed as a massive leap of progress haha). This body actively vets, modifies and deliberates on every single law which is passed here.

The head of state of my country, who is always, by law, the direct patrilineal descendant of the previous head of state, is capable of adding or removing members from this chamber at their discretion, and in recent history has actively used this power to intervene against decisions made by the civilian government. Each member of this eternal succession of family heads of state, by the way, serves in turn as the commander-in-chief of our country's armed forces.

But the state-run TV news in my country tells me again and again how the figurehead of the DPRK military happening to be a third-generation party high-up makes the entire country a "hermit kingdom" or "family dictatorship" or whatever, calling their political procedures things like "a choreographed show of support being seen as an unofficial coronation"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36219148

(NB our far superior system holds an official coronation when we periodically replace our dead head of state with their own eldest child. Not like these amateurs)


FREEDOOOOM!



DEMOCRACIEEE!


PEOPLE'S RULE!


ACCOUNTABIL... oh wait. No. No. Not real. Fake. Fake head of government, looking at fake farm!


Fake President doing faKE DIPLOMACY


FAKE. FAKE GOVERNMENT DISCUSSING FAKE LAWS.


MILITARY GRANDCHILD HERMIT KINGDO.. oh, nope, cool its freedom again. phew

Edited by Ufuk_Surekli ()

#139
For reference, the final image is specifically taken from a mass military parade celebrating 60 years of uninterrupted rule by the regime since the death of the current leader's father, who had previously held the post. The anniversary of the leader's rise to power was declared a national holiday and millions in the country's capital were encouraged to march through the streets to affirm their loyalty to the ruler, whose name and image is on every government building

Edited by Ufuk_Surekli ()

#140
When I read gyrofry's post the first thing I did was look for a source untainted by Western propaganda, I went to http://www.kcna.kp/kcna.user.home.retrieveHomeInfoList.kcmsf?lang=eng where I found a dedicated newscrawl titled "Kim Jong Un's Activities." he's also mentioned, in bold, in 5 of the 10 items relating to the 7th People's Congress. there do not seem to be any mentions of Pak Pong-ju or Kim Yong-nam. if this is propaganda, it's North Korean propaganda.

and, Ufuk_Surekli, that was the point of that post. that, NK isn't unique and horid and worthy of leper status, but it nonetheless has flaws, one of which is a history of leadership that is reminiscent of a monarchy like, e.g., Brittain (although given the crimes of British monarchy that seems like a harsher comparison than I'd make)
#141
that's the last i'm going to say on the subject, though, and i'll let y'all have the last word, because regardless of the merits (and even though I am a liberal) I'm not interested in doing the CIA's job for it
#142

thirdplace posted:

there do not seem to be any mentions of Pak Pong-ju or Kim Yong-nam. if this is propaganda, it's North Korean propaganda.



Pak Pong Ju Makes Field Survey of Construction Site of Paektusan Hero Youth Power Station No. 3

Pyongyang, February 6 (KCNA) -- DPRK Premier Pak Pong Ju made a field survey of the construction sites of Paektusan Hero Youth Power Station No. 3 and the Hyesan-Samjiyon Broad Gauge.
Going round various places of the construction sites, the premier encouraged the builders who are all out in a high-pitched drive to glorify the 7th Congress of the Workers' Party of Korea as the congress of victors and glory.
A consultative meeting discussed the measures for pushing forward the construction to suit the winter conditions without interruption and sufficiently supplying the necessary materials.
The premier went round various places in Samjiyon County associated with the leadership exploits of the peerlessly great persons of Mt. Paektu. At a consultative meeting he called for meticulously conducting the management and operation of the objects successfully renovated under the loving care of the party and discussed the matters arising in stepping up the preparations for photo farming. -0-




Premier Pak Pong Ju Makes Field Survey of Taean Heavy Machine Complex

Pyongyang, June 23 (KCNA) -- DPRK Premier Pak Pong Ju made a field survey of the Taean Heavy Machine Complex.
He looked round various production processes to learn about the technical specifications of custom-built equipment and their processing and assembling. Then he held a consultative meeting.
It discussed issues arising in increasing the production of custom-built equipment and improving their performance.
Meanwhile, he went round the construction site of a mushroom farm and consulted a measure for hastening the construction.
Touring various areas of South Hwanghae Province, he highlighted the importance of preventing the drought. -0-




etc...



etc...



Do I need to keep posting them? These are all from KCNA.

Pak Pong Ju is the Premier of DPR Korea - the head of the Korean government. He used to work in a provincal factory. He sometimes wears a dope bakerboy hat. He's a real and alright dude, not a robot, and he goes round the country looking at agriculture, industry and other shit, and also regularly meets and interacts with foreign dignitaries. When it happens, it is covered in the news like any normal political event.

But sure lets carry on talking about how KCNA is Kim Jong Un's personal blog or whatever

Edited by Ufuk_Surekli ()

#143
how has no one posted this yet?
#144

thirdplace posted:

that's the last i'm going to say on the subject, though, and i'll let y'all have the last word, because regardless of the merits (and even though I am a liberal) I'm not interested in doing the CIA's job for it



Sorry, I didn't see this before I submitted my last KNCA picture dump. If you're officially giving up, cool, I'll ring my handler in Pyongyang and collect my next envelope of DPRK propaganda bucks

#145

Ufuk_Surekli posted:

Sorry, I didn't see this before I submitted my last KNCA picture dump. If you're officially giving up, cool, I'll ring my handler in Pyongyang and collect my next envelope of DPRK propaganda bucks

I told you to take the last word and you took it. All is right in the world

#146
Good discussion and clarification of mistaken ideas ITT. I'm finding it informative. Although NMS tags for picture bombs of english parasites would be appreciated.

It seems as though, by the standards western media applies to North Korea, Angelina Jolie could reasonably be represented as the secretary general of the UN.
#147

thirdplace posted:

I told you to take the last word and you took it. All is right in the world



Thanks to your early and gracious concession they're letting me out of the DPRK embassy basement for 15 minutes to enjoy the sunshine. Thanks pal

#148
If they let you smoke weed in that basement then your life is still p much the same as 90% of posters here
#149
we communists should be out of our basements, blazed as all hell, and touring the factories and farms. red up!
#150

Ufuk_Surekli posted:




lmao this shit is so fake and staged, why won't the fascist UK government let us see what their prison country is realy like!?!







#151
on a slightly related note:

S. Korean spy agency admits error, says ‘executed’ N. Korean general is alive
#152
i wonder what it's like being in the writers room at the s korea spy agency. "so get this, then we say he fed the uncle to hungry dogs!" "brilliant!!" "where DO you come up with this stuff?!" "lets save this for may sweeps"
#153

HenryKrinkle posted:

on a slightly related note:

S. Korean spy agency admits error, says ‘executed’ N. Korean general is alive



Aaaaahahaha

Love it.

so as of WPKC 7 he's now literally joining the Politburo from "beyond the grave"


Above: top-level hermit kingdom government meeting. fake minister makes fake recommendations to fake country

#154
Okay, I guess this is pretty damning evidence, even the regime's own newspaper admits that over a million of the casualties of its economic plan are buried in a mass grave in a major metropolitan area. I'm usually not moved to tears around chicken bacon burger o'clock but God damn...
#155

tpaine posted:

every book is real



i should rename you to Borges Guðmundsdóttir

#156
the encyclopedia dramatica article on North Korea is more accurate than the wikipedia one
#157
https://vimeo.com/102051605
#158

xipe posted:

https://vimeo.com/102051605



Looks happier, cleaner, healthier, friendlier etc., than London (although that's not particularly difficult)

#159

xipe posted:

https://vimeo.com/102051605



that subway is so nice

#160

Crow posted:

thirdplace posted:

urbandale correctly pointed out that i have no basis for saying anything about juche on way or the other but i'm not going to apologize for refusing to buy the idea that twice in a row the most qualified person to lead the party and state just happened to be the son of the last guy to do it,

i guess i'm open to the idea that western propaganda falsely makes cuban socialism seem more appealing and effective, or maybe that NK required the military first policy in a way that Cuba didn't? I like and respect you mr. crow so i'll give it a good hearing... but i gotta say i'm a little skeptical!!

apologize for being a racist that emptily parrots spurious claims

The head of government in the DPRK is premier Pak Pong-ju. The head of state is the unrelated President of the Presidium Kim Yong-nam.

The Presidium and the Supreme People's Assembly are the legislative bodies of the DPRK and the premier heads the executive part of the government.

Kim Jong-un is first chairman of the National Defence Commission and has no say in making or establishing policy.

As a deputy to the SPA he has one vote.

"No investigation, shut the fuck up." -mao



lol