tears posted:LORD Ashcroft, a billionaire worth £1.32 billion and owner of the country Belize, conducted an online poll, you WONT BELIEVE what he found:
in my defense i didn't know who lord ashcroft was so i'll just blame jools i guess.
tears posted:Looking at which regions voted which way is very interesting
In england there is a very stark outline in blue (remain majority) radiating out along the three main coridors into london.
- the M4 corridor (west)
- the Cambridge coridor (north)
- the guildford coridor (south/southwest)
These correspond with some of the wealthiest areas in britain that tend to have a large number of london communters and large quantities of financial sector employed people and that outflow of financial wrealth from the capital boosts their local economies. - Oxfordshire, buckinghamshire, cabridge, guildford etc. The picture round london lines up very neatly with an income tax map
Looking at wales Cardiff, Vale of Glamorgan and Monmouthshire voted in - these are the three richest counties in Wales. Ceredigion and Gwynedd are strongly Lib Dem (lol) and Plaid Welsh nationalist heartland respectivly. - everywhere else was majority out.
def ignore london though
also ashcroft's polls are fine, you want to look at the raw data tho because he presents them in shitty ways
tears posted:hahaha, was there really a discussion earlier in this thread where lord ashcroft polls was taken seriously.
irony gone too far imo
whats wrong with it other than it being commissioned by a bond villain
jools posted:oh wait, youre all insane retards, bye again
I definitively take offense to this.
jools posted:oh wait, youre all insane retards, bye again
Truely i represent the sane and principled british left what cares about the workers and such *returns to filling out EU passport application forms*
glomper_stomper posted:isn't that moon of alabama guy the one who thinks the Migrant Question is just a globalist conspiracy to rob the west of its revolutionary potential or whatever?
HenryKrinkle posted:glomper_stomper posted:isn't that moon of alabama guy the one who thinks the Migrant Question is just a globalist conspiracy to rob the west of its revolutionary potential or whatever?
Edited by tears ()
blinkandwheeze posted:Petrol posted:as if all western proles (white or otherwise) can be sensibly understood and dismissed as "labour aristocracy"
i don't believe the entirety of the western proletariat constitute a labour aristocracy. i do believe that the 65+ support base from almost exclusively white regions that were the height of fordist development in britain are probably the clearest example of an "ageing labour aristocracy" possible though
lol those places are post-industrial hellholes, there aren't fully-employed skilled workers like that for decades and many of those people are now basically lumpenproletariat, but you already knew that. Also racially diverse places like Birmingham voted leave too—how does that square with the racism narrative? Brexit was mostly a class vote, not a racial vote. The right is taking advantage of the narrative and Anders Brexit assassinated an MP, but that points to the ineptitude of the (center-)left more than anything.
That the press is now so eager to paint the leave voters as racist and basically retarded (see the pieces about voters "googling what the EU is after voting", a viral video on Facebook of a working class woman saying something stupid etc) is very telling too.
Edited by COINTELBRO ()
COINTELBRO posted:That the press is now so eager to paint the leave voters as racist and basically retarded (see the pieces about voters "googling what the EU is after voting", a viral video on Facebook of a working class woman saying something stupid etc) is very telling too.
yeah this is an interesting case of media narrative. another one i see a lot is 'this is old people's fault' - usually that old people are gonna die soon so they are irresponsible + maliciously screw the youth. maybe those old people can actually remember the 70s when EEC skepticism was common in the Labour party too?
Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()
COINTELBRO posted:blinkandwheeze posted:Petrol posted:as if all western proles (white or otherwise) can be sensibly understood and dismissed as "labour aristocracy"
i don't believe the entirety of the western proletariat constitute a labour aristocracy. i do believe that the 65+ support base from almost exclusively white regions that were the height of fordist development in britain are probably the clearest example of an "ageing labour aristocracy" possible though
lol those places are post-industrial hellholes, there aren't fully-employed skilled workers like that for decades and many of those people are now basically lumpenproletariat, but you already knew that. Also racially diverse places like Birmingham voted leave too—how does that square with the racism narrative? Brexit was mostly a class vote, not a racial vote. The right is taking advantage of the narrative and Anders Brexit assassinated an MP, but that points to the ineptitude of the (center-)left more than anything.
That the press is now so eager to paint the leave voters as racist and basically retarded (see the pieces about voters "googling what the EU is after voting", a viral video on Facebook of a working class woman saying something stupid etc) is very telling too.
its pretty silly to call the white labor aristocracy 'lumpenproletariat' because the UK has outsourced its production. if anything it makes those people more reactionary because the entire economy is now a parasitic appendage of finance imperialism. but I agree in general with your analysis if we understand that the labor aristocracy is like any other non-revolutionary class which can nevertheless be allied with against the bourgeoisie. clearly anti-globalization is a situation where they are highly valuable since they managed to destroy the EU at a time when it is an unimaginable task for the left. to condemn them is only to condemn ourselves to irrelevance just as condemning the peasantry as non-revolutionary, superstitious, and the 19th century equivalents of 'racist' and 'sexist' was an indication of intellectual backwardness for Marxists at the turn of the century.
jools posted:oh wait, youre all insane retards, bye again
dafuq?
COINTELBRO posted:lol those places are post-industrial hellholes, there aren't fully-employed skilled workers like that for decades and many of those people are now basically lumpenproletariat, but you already knew that.
Yes there hasn't been fully employed skilled labour bases in these areas for decades, in other words since when the demographic i mentioned were actually working age. this is the demographic in which the brexit vote had a clear majority and accounts for a substantial voting base
i don't know how you could read "65+" as indicating anything different unless you are being intentionally disingenuous, which i suspect you were
Edited by blinkandwheeze ()
glomper_stomper posted:
all this pointless confusion and ambiguity seems like a smokescreen that acts to shield the more realistic political gains of national conservatism in england (the mobility of fascist thugs is corollary to this) and to suppress the perspectives and interests of england's actually oppressed classes at this time. i think the poverty and opportunism of american and european communists is being demonstrated everywhere, since they are totally incapable of grasping contradictions with regard to the dominant character of "neoliberalism" in its transition to something more degenerate and chauvinistic. they've been deprived of choices for so long that it doesn't occur to them that they shouldn't choose.
i generally agree with you, i share the reservations you express regarding the communist discourse around this. the fact that even in near-homogenous ML spaces there have been moments when comrades come close to biting each other's heads off is disconcerting.
however as the dust settles what i perceive is that the ML line was relatively clear months ago and has not fundamentally changed. what has changed is that we now have a result nobody honestly expected and we are forced to confront on the one hand the worrying triumph, such as it is, of ukip and their fellow travellers, and on the other hand, the unprincipled angry shit-slinging of various bourgeois socialists, anarchists, and other leftists who are angry when we dare stick to our pre-referendum line, that brexit is actually good for reasons having nothing to do with immigration. the goalposts have been shifting a lot over the past couple of days, hopefully this is settling now.
what i reject is your conclusion which i am sorry to say immediately reminds me of zizek's "i would prefer not to". this cannot be our answer when we are dealing with an event like this, with such huge potential ramifications for imperialism and the geopolitical landscape. even if we are happy to leave aside arguments about what was the right position to take, the urgent question remains - now what is to be done?
Edited by Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia ()
Petrol posted:a... a roseweird downvote? no...
i got a bunch of those years ago. no big deal though *rolls away on fixie*
jools posted:def ignore london though
since you asked i ran a pearson product moment corelation to see if higher median income correlates to higher percentage voting for remain for london boroughs
"The value of R is 0.5867. This is a moderate positive correlation, which means there is a tendency for high X variable scores go with high Y variable scores"
le_nelson_mandela_face posted:this is the best glenn grindlewalds in recent memory https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/
sorry but this is a bunch of self-congratulatory navelgazing. why do we always hear, in contexts like this, of "elites"? why should we take seriously someone who rails against the "media elites" as if from the outside, when he clearly isn't (if that term has any meaning)? and does this say anything apart from decry The Discourse and uphold, as a description of brexit (and trump??) vote motivation, an even vaguer term than "elites", namely "anti-establishment"? is brexit to be understood as the world's biggest johnny rotten impersonator convention? this unprincipled liberatarian fuck wouldnt know a good analysis if it was delivered to him in person on a super-duper-encrypted hard drive.