now i just chalked it up to be a roomful of cosplaying liberals, which seemed accurate considering later topics, but it makes me wonder -- is no one on the left articulating any intelligent argument for brexit and just leaving it all up to Team Boris? or is it just that there's zero coverage of them. it seems like something that the media would lap up as a sort of caricature lampooning of the brexit position (like they do with marxists who happen to be within 100 feet of Corbyn) and thereby unwittingly spread leftist arguments in favour of brexit but that doesn't seem to be happening either?
drwhat posted:so i was at a thing in london with a theoretically fairly leftist crowd, some of whom hooted and hollered when revolution was mentioned, but when brexit came up it was 100% stay and 0% go.
now i just chalked it up to be a roomful of cosplaying liberals, which seemed accurate considering later topics, but it makes me wonder -- is no one on the left articulating any intelligent argument for brexit and just leaving it all up to Team Boris? or is it just that there's zero coverage of them. it seems like something that the media would lap up as a sort of caricature lampooning of the brexit position (like they do with marxists who happen to be within 100 feet of Corbyn) and thereby unwittingly spread leftist arguments in favour of brexit but that doesn't seem to be happening either?
what about george galloway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFmDePLUNV0
Britain is mourning lawmaker Jo Cox a day after a man wielding a gun and knife killed the 41-year-old mother of two in a brazen street attack that has thrown the June 23 referendum on European Union membership into limbo.
Cox, a supporter of Britain staying in the EU, was shot and repeatedly stabbed in her own constituency near Leeds in northern England on Thursday by a man who witnesses said had shouted "Britain first."
6HiptoBhy7k
Even Marx himself, in his draft of the French Workers' Party Programme, called for the prohibition of foreign labor at below the existing wages of French labor.
This doesn't mean that you should support border controls or whatever, you can think that free labor mobility is a moral imperative above everything else and that's valid. But it's dishonest to shoot down the people who acknowledge that the reserve army of labor exists and that free movement of labor depresses wages. It's an emotionally loaded issue, but if you brand workers as racist and dumb for questioning the prevailing neoliberal free labor movement model, they can sense your middle class moralism and fake leftism from a mile away.
A policy that could solve this is re-legalizing closed shop unionization, and giving full legal support to union attempts to enforce the closed shop: legal right to mass picketing, including blockading of entrances to workplaces, full immunity of unions from legal actions arising from trades disputes. This is just a modest extension of rights the British unions had back in the 1960s. Workers' control over the labor supply would solve most of this trouble if they gave trades councils the right to declare certain industries closed shops, and a higher minimum wage would help too obviously.
COINTELBRO posted:vote BNP
COINTELBRO posted:Working class people have been bringing up that mass immigration created a downward pressure on wages and unionization and Brit leftists got really defensive and shrieked about racism and called them uneducated.
I don't think it's true that the capitalist class is united in favour of free movement of labour. They actually gain quite a bit by being able to both import labour when needed and then constantly harass and threaten labour with deportation. Which is why you get absurd situations in the US borderlands where there are forces both pulling and pushing immigrant labour in competing agencies. The small number of like libertarian rich people is also complemented by the real need for community segregation to avoid collective action and to reinforce white supremacy too.
The basic fact is that both brexit and remain can be easily mobilized by sections of the right-wing, it's a nonsense referendum and both sides are not helpful to the left, except insofar as all contradictions can be played off in some way. National referenda like this are organizing opportunities but they aren't really 'democratic' in a meaningful way in terms of popular power and community control, for the same reason that the US presidential election isn't likely to build socialism ever.
COP: Alright you red bastards. Time for a little of the old "white proletariat".
FAILAIDS posted:did anyone post this
6HiptoBhy7k
Holy shit he just rambles on about Denny's for 26 minutes
FAILAIDS posted:did anyone post this
6HiptoBhy7k
Trot World??
xipe posted:if leave win it wont be accepted by gov/eu imo
i could see this
london being located in the eu is hugely important to finance, i think Remain doing even as well as it is doing, 50/50, is just the result of shitloads of money
i really don't know how it'll go
c_man posted:i still dont see why britain leaving the EU is a net gain for workers anywhere or in terms of foreign intervention.
because the EU, european economic wing of NATO, is a european anti-communist anti-worker economic alliance of imperialist countries set up after WWII as a capitalist counter to the USSR, and has never done anything good for the working people of europe ever while doing plenty of bad.
You could check out the Trade Unions against the EU leaflet to see what was being said from a non-communist, left, out campaign: http://no2euyestodemocracy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/TUAEU-Say-No.pdf
tears posted:because the EU, european economic wing of NATO, is a european anti-communist anti-worker economic alliance of imperialist countries set up after WWII as a capitalist counter to the USSR, and has never done anything good for the working people of europe ever while doing plenty of bad.
all of these things describe britain in the absence of the EU though. with or without the EU britain is anti-communist, anti-worker, imperialist, NATO member, USA toady, etc etc etc etc
glomper_stomper posted:actually, it's huey and a bunch of chumps on twitter
When American Idol was still popular I used to read Vote For The Worst, a blog that advocated voting for the shittiest candidate to show it was all a scam. This peaked in season six with Sanjaya, a weird dude with no talent at all making it to top 7 (I think). After that season AI stopped being good and eventually VFTW became more popular than the show and revealing that it was a scam stopped being fun. Now both the show and the blog are gone and have been replaced by a bunch of minor gong shows.
Voting for president is about as important as voting for American idol and probably has less participation from the American public. If voting for Trump reveals the whole thing is a sham maybe a funny blog like VFTW could come out of it at least. It's not possible that he wins anyway since money determines who wins and Hillary is backed by finance capital but at least we can make liberals who think voting matters squirm.
c_man posted:all of these things describe britain in the absence of the EU though. with or without the EU britain is anti-communist, anti-worker, imperialist, NATO member, USA toady, etc etc etc etc
I know, sucks right, that's why I draw people in with the easily understandable "EU = fascist" to get them properly acclimatised to this sort of rhetoric and nodding along to what I'm saying and thinking communism is actually ok, and then when they're properly prepared I break out the ol' "Death to the UK" banners.
tears posted:I know, sucks right, that's why I draw people in with the easily understandable "EU = fascist" to get them properly acclimatised to this sort of rhetoric and nodding along to what I'm saying and thinking communism is actually ok, and then when they're properly prepared I break out the ol' "Death to the UK" banners.
ok, well, good luck
COINTELBRO posted:Working class people have been bringing up that mass immigration created a downward pressure on wages and unionization and Brit leftists got really defensive and shrieked about racism and called them uneducated. They seriously have no argument other than insinuating racism—how can you call yourself Marxist and deny that the reserve army of labor exists? How can you deny that free movement without border controls is every capitalist's dream?
Even Marx himself, in his draft of the French Workers' Party Programme, called for the prohibition of foreign labor at below the existing wages of French labor.
V.I. Lenin posted:There can be no doubt that dire poverty alone compels people to abandon their native land, and that the capitalists exploit the immigrant workers in the most shameless manner. But only reactionaries can shut their eyes to the progressive significance of this modern migration of nations. Emancipation from the yoke of capital is impossible without the further development of capitalism, and without the class struggle that is based on it. And it is into this struggle that capitalism is drawing the masses of the working people of the whole world, breaking down the musty, fusty habits of local life, breaking down national barriers and prejudices, uniting workers from all countries in huge factories and mines in America, Germany, and so forth.
The bourgeoisie incites the workers of one nation against those of another in the endeavour to keep them disunited. Class-conscious workers, realising that the break-down of all the national barriers by capitalism is inevitable and progressive, are trying to help to enlighten and organise their fellow-workers from the backward countries.
FAILAIDS posted:did anyone post this
6HiptoBhy7k
god what a cutie sammy is
