#41
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
jacobin is cool because it is making liberals read about and discuss Marx which provides space for others to discuss Marx which is cool
#42
Post rating: +
the space creation stuff is junk when they shit all over, uh, actual marxists half the time
#43
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
i agree they need to do less of that
#44
Post rating: ~
it's necessary for them though, because sunkara does seem to want to be MSNBC's dial-a-socialist, and so he has to separate his Marxist Brand from theirs
#45
Post rating: +++++
like, why on earth do we want marxism being talked about among Liberal Elites, who gives a shit about them
#46
[account deactivated]
#47
Post rating: ~

jools posted:

like, why on earth do we want marxism being talked about among Liberal Elites, who gives a shit about them


at worst it doesn't matter, and it probably bleeds over to people that actually matter to some degree

#48
Post rating: +
i would honestly rather centerleft political-engaged people read jacobin rather than glenn greenwald and slate dot com like they actually do
#49
Post rating: ~

Lessons posted:

jools posted:

like, why on earth do we want marxism being talked about among Liberal Elites, who gives a shit about them

at worst it doesn't matter, and it probably bleeds over to people that actually matter to some degree



well the problem is the process of making it palatable to these babies removes a lot of the good parts

#50
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~

jools posted:

like, why on earth do we want marxism being talked about among Liberal Elites, who gives a shit about them



i dont, i said 'liberals'

#51
Post rating: ~
i mean come on, this is bullshit, why are they publishing crap like this http://jacobinmag.com/2013/05/foul-weather-friends/
#52
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
people i know who considered marxism dead before they were born are now reading something about it from an imperfect source. im happy about this and am probably not going to shit on those people about how they suck and should go away
#53
Post rating: +

jools posted:

Lessons posted:

jools posted:

like, why on earth do we want marxism being talked about among Liberal Elites, who gives a shit about them

at worst it doesn't matter, and it probably bleeds over to people that actually matter to some degree

well the problem is the process of making it palatable to these babies removes a lot of the good parts


like i said before, there's no class consciousness in america. there's no good parts to remove. idk about britain but they're very much a step up from anything you're likely to encounter over here.

#54
Post rating: ~
my point is more that this seems to be appealing to a class fragment that is likely not very large/relevant anyway (being middle class, educated, white, etc), and so making this kind of marxism the "mainstream view" is at best useless. like im not sure that jacobin have made people think marxism is Alive now or something, i think it's more that shit is pretty fucked so they'll be ready to take on these sorts of ideas from any source. given jacobin has some huge glaring problems, i'm quite happy to shit on it and suggest alternative things
#55
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
i can pretty easily imagine a jacobin that does what jacobin does w/o, like, kilpatrick writing that khamsek wants us all to take hostages right now. i write to them to that effect and i think their mistake comes from a belief that impoverished left-liberals arent ready to hear about some serious love & loss
#56
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +

jools posted:

like im not sure that jacobin have made people think marxism is Alive now or something, i think it's more that shit is pretty fucked so they'll be ready to take on these sorts of ideas from any source. given jacobin has some huge glaring problems, i'm quite happy to shit on it and suggest alternative things



1) i am definitely sure that some people take jacobin as a sign that marxism is Alive now and 2) i think you can lead people from jacobin to other things w/o telling them they suck for finding an easy way to hop on

#57
Post rating: ~
Too Mainstream
*pouts*
#58
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: +
W iait are we not supposed to have hostages right now. What do i do if i have one then
#59
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
i do agree with both of you that the situation is, "shit is so fucked that jacobin matters"
#60
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:

W iait are we not supposed to have hostages right now. What do i do if i have one then



Fuck and Destroy

#61
Post rating: +
btw heres a pic of the guy who wrote that article

#62
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
Its me!!!! Oh wait its not me
#63
Post rating: ~
i dont think you could ever afford that suit, hair, mole, and facial expression
#64
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: +
I'm rich bitch!!! Oh wait no I'm not
#65
Post rating: ~

jools posted:

my point is more that this seems to be appealing to a class fragment that is likely not very large/relevant anyway (being middle class, educated, white, etc), and so making this kind of marxism the "mainstream view" is at best useless. like im not sure that jacobin have made people think marxism is Alive now or something, i think it's more that shit is pretty fucked so they'll be ready to take on these sorts of ideas from any source. given jacobin has some huge glaring problems, i'm quite happy to shit on it and suggest alternative things


one hundred percent of america considers themselves middle class, this is what i keep telling you. maybe the alternative here is a focus on race, i have no idea, but as i keep repeating and you keep not getting the discourse is in the gutter here and i'm not inclined to totally dismiss people because theyre not Real Working Class Politics.

#66
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
What's wrong with glenn "shut the fuck up Glenn" Greenwald
#67
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i dont really care if 100% of america considers themselves middle class, that obviously just means in practice that "middle class" means literally anything at all. that's why i said "class fragment" - the section of the middle class jacobin appeals to is Irrelevant....
#68
Post rating: ~
and yeah, a focus on race would help a lot, instead of pushing the same fatuous henwoodisms
#69
Post rating: +

jools posted:

i dont really care if 100% of america considers themselves middle class, that obviously just means in practice that "middle class" means literally anything at all. that's why i said "class fragment" - the section of the middle class jacobin appeals to is Irrelevant....


this is true of left-leaning stuff here generally though. idk how to explain it man, you really can't get away from the stuff you're complaining about here and actually get anywhere. so it's essentially languish in obscurity or be imperfect, and the imperfect people actually do more on a practical level for socialism's cause than the microsects.

#70
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
i'm both imperfect and obscure.
#71
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~

roseweird posted:

because if truth is true then exposure to it is good

truth is bullshit

#72
Post rating: ~

Lessons posted:

jools posted:

i dont really care if 100% of america considers themselves middle class, that obviously just means in practice that "middle class" means literally anything at all. that's why i said "class fragment" - the section of the middle class jacobin appeals to is Irrelevant....

this is true of left-leaning stuff here generally though. idk how to explain it man, you really can't get away from the stuff you're complaining about here and actually get anywhere. so it's essentially languish in obscurity or be imperfect, and the imperfect people actually do more on a practical level for socialism's cause than the microsects.



I think this is true wrt USA except that jacobin and the microsects both do about the same on a practical level for socialism's cause imho

i'd imagine both jacobin and the microsects also turn out a bunch of weird left liberal people and burnouts respectively (perhaps both-ly)

e: I mean the PSL turned out corey ansel and i'm sure jacobin is responsible for some white college student yelling at all his friends about left keynesianism revolution or something so whatever, fuck everything

#73
Post rating: +
they're just some shitty magazine in Brooklyn, why is it dire to weigh in on The Jacobin Question in the context of politics. they don't "do" anything
#74
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~

animedad posted:

they're just some shitty magazine in Brooklyn, why is it dire to weigh in on The Jacobin Question in the context of politics. they don't "do" anything



okay but people i know read it and talk about it

#75
Post rating: ~

prikryl posted:

Lessons posted:

jools posted:

i dont really care if 100% of america considers themselves middle class, that obviously just means in practice that "middle class" means literally anything at all. that's why i said "class fragment" - the section of the middle class jacobin appeals to is Irrelevant....

this is true of left-leaning stuff here generally though. idk how to explain it man, you really can't get away from the stuff you're complaining about here and actually get anywhere. so it's essentially languish in obscurity or be imperfect, and the imperfect people actually do more on a practical level for socialism's cause than the microsects.

I think this is true wrt USA except that jacobin and the microsects both do about the same on a practical level for socialism's cause imho

i'd imagine both jacobin and the microsects also turn out a bunch of weird left liberal people and burnouts respectively (perhaps both-ly)

e: I mean the PSL turned out corey ansel and i'm sure jacobin is responsible for some white college student yelling at all his friends about left keynesianism revolution or something so whatever, fuck everything



lol ansel is ex-PSL? that guy is awful, what the fuck is his deal

#76
Post rating: +
also tbh i'm more worried about white college students yelling about multiculturalism, The Real Enemy
#77
Post rating: ~
Update: Jacobin changes name to Journal des Libres and occupies Jesuit monasteries as platforms for debate on revolutionary praxis.
#78
[account deactivated]
#79
[account deactivated]
#80
[account deactivated]