#16641
#16642

ultramega posted:

imagine putting donald trump in the same category of world-historical figure as napoleon or hegel. can't wait for the official hagiographies and soft-pedalled biopics.


#16643
This is morbid to note but I rent a place in a neighborhood full of elderly people who have been heading off to meet their maker at a steady clip. A company runs estate sales at most of these properties so I, like a horrible furniture vampire, have filled my pad with their furniture bought at affordable prices; an '80s vintage alarm clock, etc. Anyways you're usually guaranteed to see one of these presidential hagiographies sitting on a shelf. One guy went down in a plane crash (he was the pilot) and had his Bush books along with titles like "MiG Alley: Air War Over 'Nam" and the collected works of Tom Clancy.

#16644
odo and quark are gay.
#16645

ultramega posted:

imagine putting donald trump in the same category of world-historical figure as napoleon or hegel. can't wait for the official hagiographies and soft-pedalled biopics.



given the climate cliff-edge we're already half-over, trump is actually more significant by some distance than napoleon

#16646

psychicdriver posted:

odo and quark are gay.



bashir and garak are gay. dukat is gay for sisko but sisko is not gay for him. kira and dax, are gay. o'brien and bashir are straight but with mutual JO no eye contact

#16647

trakfactri posted:

This is morbid to note but I rent a place in a neighborhood full of elderly people who have been heading off to meet their maker at a steady clip. A company runs estate sales at most of these properties so I, like a horrible furniture vampire, have filled my pad with their furniture bought at affordable prices; an '80s vintage alarm clock, etc. Anyways you're usually guaranteed to see one of these presidential hagiographies sitting on a shelf. One guy went down in a plane crash (he was the pilot) and had his Bush books along with titles like "MiG Alley: Air War Over 'Nam" and the collected works of Tom Clancy.



i live near a surprisingly good secondhand book store and all the political hagiographies / autobiographies of obscure Australian politicians (who werent that obscure in their time of course) are the ones that never, ever, ever sell. like there's a Don Chipp autobio that's been sitting there for at least the 7 or so years i've been going there. kinda curious about some of them to be honest. i got a couple things written by Jim Cairns to satiate this curiosity but i doubt i'll ever actually read them.

#16648
reading about what the teens are up to, http://joshuacitarella.com/_pdf/Politigram_Post-left_2018_short.pdf
#16649

Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:

i live near a surprisingly good secondhand book store and all the political hagiographies / autobiographies of obscure Australian politicians (who werent that obscure in their time of course) are the ones that never, ever, ever sell. like there's a Don Chipp autobio that's been sitting there for at least the 7 or so years i've been going there. kinda curious about some of them to be honest. i got a couple things written by Jim Cairns to satiate this curiosity but i doubt i'll ever actually read them.


There's a bookstore like that in my area. The presidential hagiography business might be more of an American thing. Dunno really. I know this old-school Kennedy Democrat in her eighties and I remember seeing her rack of hagiographies and memoirs of the Kennedys, Clintons and Obama in her apartment. Mostly books about Frank Sinatra, though, which along with her love for Democrats means she idolizes white-collar criminals instead of blue-collar ones like the people who put up posters of Al Pacino in Scarface.

#16650

toyotathon posted:

reading about what the teens are up to, http://joshuacitarella.com/_pdf/Politigram_Post-left_2018_short.pdf



i'm not sure that any significant fraction of teenagers anywhere in the world would have any idea what this stuff is

#16651
really, that document reminds me more than anything of the "post-left" anarchist Internet circa 1999-2000, meaning, before today's teens were even born
#16652
#16653

cars posted:

really, that document reminds me more than anything of the "post-left" anarchist Internet circa 1999-2000, meaning, before today's teens were even born



it's so quaint lol

#16654
i'm really into debord and deleuze. you probably haven't heard of them, im such a hipster
#16655
Marge simpson is now my muse!
#16656

cars posted:

really, that document reminds me more than anything of the "post-left" anarchist Internet circa 1999-2000, meaning, before today's teens were even born


the retro angle

#16657

toyotathon posted:

reading about what the teens are up to, http://joshuacitarella.com/_pdf/Politigram_Post-left_2018_short.pdf


we've all been waiting for an explanation of the internet left by guys who have worms in their brain, and its finally here

#16658

psychicdriver posted:

cars posted:

really, that document reminds me more than anything of the "post-left" anarchist Internet circa 1999-2000, meaning, before today's teens were even born

the retro angle



they're even politically degenerate pro-pedophiles, though I suppose that's inevitable when you adopt lederhosen romance such as "deep green", primitivism, stirnerism, etc... first as tragedy, then as farce. Speaking of, you know who else was really into German romanticism,

#16659
theres some usenet community from 1988 linking to the rhizzone and laughing about how behind the times we are
#16660
the Recycle Bin of history
#16661

cars posted:

the Recycle Bin of history


dont think i'd ever seen it conceptualised this way well done

#16662
in two years these kids will suddenly discover Hardt & Negri lol.
#16663

kinch posted:

theres some usenet community from 1988 linking to the rhizzone and laughing about how behind the times we are


That's the charm, ya humbugs!

#16664

blinkandwheeze posted:

in two years these kids will suddenly discover Hardt & Negri lol.


#16665
https://files.ncas.org/ufosymposium/sagan.html

#16666
#16667

The New York Times, 05/10/2016: When Jimmy Kimmel asked Hillary Clinton in a late-night TV interview about U.F.O.s, she quickly corrected his terminology.

“You know, there’s a new name,” Mrs. Clinton said in the March appearance. “It’s unexplained aerial phenomenon,” she said. “U.A.P. That’s the latest nomenclature.”

Known for her grasp of policy, Mrs. Clinton has spoken at length in her presidential campaign on topics as diverse as Alzheimer’s research and military tensions in the South China Sea. But it is her unusual knowledge about extraterrestrials that has struck a small but committed cohort of voters.


“Hillary has embraced this issue with an absolutely unprecedented level of interest in American politics,” said Joseph G. Buchman, who has spent decades calling for government transparency about extraterrestrials.

Mrs. Clinton, a cautious candidate who often bemoans being the subject of Republican conspiracy theories, has shown surprising ease plunging into the discussion of the possibility of extraterrestrial beings.

She has said in recent interviews that as president she would release information about Area 51, the remote Air Force base in Nevada believed by some to be a secret hub where the government stores classified information about aliens and U.F.O.s.

In a radio interview last month, she said, “I want to open the files as much as we can.” Asked if she believed in U.F.O.s, Mrs. Clinton said: “I don’t know. I want to see what the information shows.” But she added, “There’s enough stories out there that I don’t think everybody is just sitting in their kitchen making them up.”


In 1996, Mrs. Clinton was ridiculed after Bob Woodward reported, in his book “The Choice,” that as first lady she had held discussions with her deceased role models, Eleanor Roosevelt and Mohandas K. Gandhi. The tabloid Weekly World News dreamed up sensational headlines about Mrs. Clinton’s adopting an alien baby and having a “U.F.O. love nest.”

The Clinton presidency also coincided with the hit television series “The X-Files” and movies like “Independence Day,” which gave way to an era of fascination with the existence of aliens and the possibility of a government cover-up.

Mr. Podesta , an “X-Files” fanatic, ran a fan club for the show in the Clinton White House. “The ‘X-Files’ fan club would like to invite you and Mulder to lunch at the White House. Don’t let the boss know,” he wrote in a 1998 email, referring to the show’s fictional F.B.I. agent Fox Mulder, according to White House documents. In 1999, Mr. Podesta had an “X-Files”-themed 50th birthday party that the Clintons attended.

When Mr. Podesta left the White House last year, he posted on Twitter: “Finally, my biggest failure of 2014: Once again not securing the #disclosure of the U.F.O. files. #thetruthisstilloutthere.”

Mr. Podesta declined to comment for this article.

Mrs. Clinton, who speaks frequently about her childhood aspirations to be a NASA astronaut, has been sympathetic to Mr. Podesta’s efforts.

In 1995, when she was photographed visiting Laurance S. Rockefeller, a billionaire philanthropist, in Jackson Hole, Wyo., she had tucked under her arm a copy of “Are We Alone?: Philosophical Implications of the Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life,” by Paul Davies.



Her interest in UFOs and communicating with spirits I thought was quirky ... and added personality. Very funky and '70s. Better than "Wall Street warhawk." Her campaign should've played it up more IMO.

#16668
I recommend that people read the Sagan/Shklovsky book, Intelligent Life in the Universe, published 1966. It's the book that's mentioned in the transcript I posted.

The Congressman in that transcript is technically wrong, because while I.S. Shklovsky and Carl Sagan were friends (Shklovsky is obviously the main inspiration for the USSR astronomer in Contact) and Sagan got a lot of shit for palling around with Communists, the book with their names on their cover isn't really a collaboration.

Instead, it's Paula Fern's English translation of Shklovsky's Universe, Life, Intelligence—published four years earlier by the USSR science press—with substantial interpolations by Sagan to update and comment on the material, all of which are set apart visually and unmistakably from the translated text by printed symbols used as brackets. Some of the contents are years out of date given later discoveries in planetary science, but those parts are easy for laypersons to spot, and it's a good, hard-nosed overview of both the topic and what questions experts wanted to investigate during the early years of planning exploratory space programs.

It's also pretty fun because Sagan and Shklovsky were fun guys who liked to get fucked up, so both they take a little time to discuss what they thought at the time to be the most plausible of the weirder and wilder speculations about extraterrestrial visitations in prehistory, though it's all very tongue-in-cheek given the UFO skepticism shared by Sagan and pretty much the entirety of Soviet Union academia, including Shklovsky. (Sagan talks about the possibility that a Sumerian fish-god was a visitor from another world, while Shklovsky discusses, in a pre-Mars-exploration context, how then-current estimations of the density of one of Mars's moons could be explained if it were a hollowed-out space station in disguise.)

A big reason I recommend the book is that it's hard to find texts like it in English outside of opportunistic excerpts from lurid post-Soviet-era journalism. But in Intelligent Life in the Universe, rather than cut a bunch of stuff aimed at a USSR audience from Shklovsky's existing text—including statements about the priorities of the U.S. space program that would have alarmed a lot of English-language readers in 1966—Sagan and Fern leave it all in there, and Sagan explains in his introduction that he figures people reading the book are smart enough to figure things out for themselves. That probably didn't do him a lot of favors among the Red-baiters after him who bothered to investigate his connections to his USSR colleagues in that much detail.
#16669

kinch posted:

i'm really into debord and deleuze. you probably haven't heard of them, im such a hipster



heard a guy at a party the other night emphatically repeating to a few different people 'in order for one to properly understand deleuze you have to read it at least three times! thrice!'

he was a real cool guy, wearing a dirty rubber paint smock and kurt kobain limited edition chuck taylors he's had since 2010(!!!!!!) which he also mentioned a lot. a real cool artist-maker-curator-creative

#16670
thrice
#16671
im reading a book about rewi alley, who was a new zealander who went to china in 1927 'to have a look at their revolution' and ended up staying there and being a important part of organising the industrial cooperative movement. its not an amazingly written book or anything like that but alley is an interesting guy, incredibly humble and modest and it gives an interesting picture of the period, especially all of the politicking involved in getting the cooperatives to work in the unified front government. whenever the author of book talks to rewi alley about something half the time alley is just like 'yeah that happened'. and doesn't really want to talk about it even when it's very significant stuff like meeting mao, which is sort of funny.
#16672
did anybody pick up the english translation of How The Red Sun Rose? thinkin about it but $70 is crazy
#16673
https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/2772-fredric-jameson-universal-conscription-and-the-citizens-army
#16674
i started reading postone's "Time, Labor and Social Domination: A Reinterpretation of Marx's Critical Theory" with a friend which seems mostly like someone trying to re-invent Capital by reading Grundrisse, and it just made me want to read Grundrisse thoroughly instead.
#16675
RIP Gene Wolfe

toyotathon posted:

When he saw me approaching the door of his tent, the drummer stopped his clamor. “Only an aes to see him. Two to speak with him. Three to be alone with him.”
“Alone for how long?” I asked as I selected three copper aes. A wry grin crossed the drummer’s face. “For as long as you wish.” I handed him his money and stepped inside.
It had been plain he had not thought I would want to stay long, and I expected a stench or something equally unpleasant. There was nothing beyond a slight odor as of hay curing. In the center of the tent, in a dust-spangled shaft of sunlight admitted by a vent in the canvas roof, was chained a man the color of pale jade. He wore a kilt of leaves, now fading; beside him stood a clay pot filled to the brim with clear water.
For a moment we were silent. I stood looking at him. He sat looking at the ground. “That’s not paint,” I said. “Nor do I think it dye. And you have no more hair than the man I saw dragged from the sealed house.”
He looked up at me, then down again. Even the whites of his eyes held a greenish tint.
I tried to bait him. “If you are truly vegetable, I would think your hair should be grass.”
“No.” He had a soft voice, saved from womanishness only by its depth.
“You are vegetable then? A speaking plant?”
“You are no countryman.”
“I left Nessus a few days ago.”
“With some education.”
I thought of Master Palaemon, then of Master Malrubius and my poor Thecla, and I shrugged. “I can read and write.”
“Yet you know nothing about me. I am not a talking vegetable, as you should be able to see. Even if a plant were to follow the one evolutionary way, out of some many millions, that leads to intelligence, it is impossible that it should duplicate in wood and leaf the form of a human being.”
“The same thing might be said of stones, yet there are statues.”
For all his aspect of despair (and his was a sadder face by far than my friend Jonas’s), something tugged at the corners of his lips. “That is well put. You have no scientific training, but you are better taught than you realize.”
“On the contrary, all my training has been scientific—although it had nothing to do with these fantastic speculations. What are you?”
“A great seer. A great liar, like every man whose foot is in a trap.”
“If you’ll tell me what you are, I’ll endeavor to help you.”
He looked at me, and it was as if some tall herb had opened eyes and shown a human face. “I believe you,” he said. “Why is it that you, of all the hundreds who come to this tent, know pity?”
“I know nothing of pity, but I have been imbued with a respect for justice, and I am well acquainted with the alcalde of this village. A green man is still a man; and if he is a slave, his master must show how he came to that state, and how he himself came into possession of him.”
The green man said, “I’m a fool, I suppose, to put any confidence in you. And yet I do. I am a free man, come from your own future to explore your age.”
“That is impossible.”
“The green color that puzzles your people so much is only what you call pond scum. We have altered it until it can live in our blood, and by its intervention have at last made our peace in humankind’s long struggle with the sun. In us, the tiny plants live and die, and our bodies feed from them and their dead and require no other nourishment. All the famines, and all the labor of growing food, are ended.”
“But you must have sun.”
“Yes,” the green man said. “And I have not enough here. Day is brighter in my age.”
That simple remark thrilled me in a way that nothing had since I had first glimpsed the unroofed chapel in the Broken Court of our Citadel. “Then the New Sun comes as prophesied,” I said, “and there is indeed a second life for Urth—if what you say is the truth.”
The green man threw back his head and laughed. Much later I was to hear the sound the alzabo makes as it ranges the snowswept tablelands of the high country; its laughter is horrible, but the green man’s was more terrible, and I drew away from him. “You’re not a human being,” I said. “Not now, if you ever were.”

#16676
"Wolfe is our Melville" - Ursula Le Guin
#16677
I have a sorta nebulous question. Does anyone have any suggestions for radical books dealing with something in the realm of bio/medical issues, anthropology, and feminism? my girlfriend wants suggestions (she is a med student and loves reading stuff about medicine) and i told her i would consult the zzone. she is getting into feminist literature (rn the second sex, and we're gonna read caliban and the witch at some point).
#16678
caliban hits all 3 of those w/ the colonial interaction in the andes and brazil like forcing women to follow behind their men on the way to the mines, and exporting the witch trial method to the southern americas, and women's methods for preserving banned culture in secret, transition of the medical profession in post black death era, and the focus of the book is a history of women in witch trial times and the class interaction (^ birthrate after black death) to keep the peasantry hungry again and grow the population to the limit.
#16679

toyotathon posted:

caliban hits all 3 of those w/ the colonial interaction in the andes and brazil like forcing women to follow behind their men on the way to the mines, and exporting the witch trial method to the southern americas, and women's methods for preserving banned culture in secret, transition of the medical profession in post black death era, and the focus of the book is a history of women in witch trial times and the class interaction (^ birthrate after black death) to keep the peasantry hungry again and grow the population to the limit.



thx for the response. makes me wanna read it all the more.

#16680
it doesnt have much in the way of feminism but "the dialectical biologist" is a great read that includes some good takes on cuba. Also good is "biology as ideology" which is by one of the authors of "the dialectical biologist" and is a more recent book/radio series as well as being more focused.