#281
community control of police at this point in US history is never going to happen unless defunding happens first. unless you think a full blown revolution is just around the corner in which case,

#282
if you divide my city's 2021 cop budget by the number of cops we got, you find we're planning to spend nearly half a million dollars per porcita
#283
in my city one of the organizers mentioned that the cops get more than the education system
#284
city council members say they want to abolsih police
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/minneapolis-city-council-defund-police-george-floyd
#285
it's going to be very instructive to see what shape the pushback opposition to that will take. interesting times ahead
#286
Yesterday protesters in my current very bougie and stratified city of bristol toppled a statue of slaver edward colston and threw him into the harbour close to where his slaves ships docked. people are still whinging about how this should have been done democratically, when there's been pressure on the council for years to put his statue in a museum and rename colston hall, colston street, colston tower, multiple colston schools and abolish colston day, where people celebrate by eating a colston bun, and fuck all has come of it, which is unsurprising when people refer to him as a "divisive figure" and "philanthropist." I shouldn't be surprised at the number of people who flock to defend a 400 year old rich dead guy who murdered and sold humans for a living, but here we are.
#287
all this talk of outside agitators and

“It’s pretty clear the political will is here, and they can’t stop it,” said Williams, noting that even if police officers opposed the move, a vast majority of them live outside of Minneapolis and can’t vote on their elected leaders.

#288
#289

shriekingviolet posted:

it's going to be very instructive to see what shape the pushback opposition to that will take. interesting times ahead


I imagine that one of the main forms of pushback is going to be picking up the slogans and completely abandoning the intent during implementation - something along the lines of what happened in Camden. From what I've read Camden "abolished the police" but in actuality they just shifted all the city police resources into the county level policing. That was paired with all the reforms being pushed by liberal establishment - body/dash cams (increased surveillance), "community policing" (increased police presence in communities), more money for training (increased police funding), rewording the laws/rules ("this time we really mean it when we say cops killing people isn't allowed"). Everything police/prison abolitionists are against, being done in their name (so they will be discredited when it doesn't work) with the added benefit of making future changes even more difficult by shifting who is overseeing the police (the city of Camden is 17% white, the county of Camden is 65% white).

Edited by solidar ()

#290
for sure, this is part of amerika's overdue bourgeois revolution... if you trust the theory that police are part of a unique parasite class called the lumpen, that feed themselves by theft, instead of profit from commodity sale: then there's no contradiction, when a labor aristocrat holds up a radical sign to defund the police, or calls to destroy the prisons. or a company sends out an email w/ RIP george floyd. police violently leech 60% (in oakland) to 90% of a city's whole coffer. they contend for the same surplus as the bourgeoisie and labor aristos, and get their share by some uniquely disgusting, animal-like means. bourgeois parasites and our class of workers agree that police should be disbanded, taught useful job skills: more surplus for the rest, and no more knees on our necks. so the cfo of citibank can write a poem called 'i can't breathe' and speak for his class interest, white post-lumpen landowners can climb atop a gamestop w/AR-15s and speak for their class interest, white city wage-earners can want them gone, and speak for their class interests. bourgeois and workers both want a world without this thieving street gang.
#291
left and right unite and fi--oooh, ewww, hmm. well. just this once
#292
im sure there will be hellworld implications in the future and something possibly worse will fill the vacuum left by the dissolution of city PDs but i gotta tell you that for the moment at least i am riding very, very high thinking about how mad the cops are about this
#293

toyot posted:

for sure, this is part of amerika's overdue bourgeois revolution... if you trust the theory that police are part of a unique parasite class called the lumpen, that feed themselves by theft, instead of profit from commodity sale: then there's no contradiction, when a labor aristocrat holds up a radical sign to defund the police, or calls to destroy the prisons. or a company sends out an email w/ RIP george floyd. police violently leech 60% (in oakland) to 90% of a city's whole coffer. they contend for the same surplus as the bourgeoisie and labor aristos, and get their share by some uniquely disgusting, animal-like means. bourgeois parasites and our class of workers agree that police should be disbanded, taught useful job skills: more surplus for the rest, and no more knees on our necks. so the cfo of citibank can write a poem called 'i can't breathe' and speak for his class interest, white post-lumpen landowners can climb atop a gamestop w/AR-15s and speak for their class interest, white city wage-earners can want them gone, and speak for their class interests. bourgeois and workers both want a world without this thieving street gang.


part of the story of Camden is that they were hindered in making changes to the city police by the police union. dissolving the city police let them end run around unionized police salaries - the new county police hired were offered much lower salaries. they did unionize tho, so i'd guess the county cops will be demanding (and getting) their share of the profit soon.
i don't think the majority of any white class division in the US actually want the police gone. the bourgeois may be content to shift the police duties back onto mercenaries/private security, but only if that is cheaper and easier - doubtful since this arrangement lets them dodge criticism while they share poems and black out their social media accounts and they avoid much of the direct cost by avoiding taxes. some of these corporations even got white amerikkans out in the street doing unpaid labor for them after the protests. there does seem to be growing anti-police sentiment across the US public but calls for abolition seem rare/unpopular. imo the majority of white amerikkkans are still chasing the ideal good cops - perfect surveillance so they can find and catch anyone, perfect training and "non-lethal" weapons so they can arrest anyone without of "too much" violence, maybe make some robot cops so there is no implicit bias involved. They just want the police to handle their job more effectively and with a smile so that they don't have to even think or hear about it. I don't think they want to actually make a change to the arrangement of letting cops handle the front edge of the individual-level conflicts that arise from white supremacy and class society. I'm not sure they are even upset over the outsized slice of profits cops take - "they deserve good pay - they risk their lives for us."

Edited by solidar ()

#294
This is really showing the difference between liberal and radical groups on the ground, the radicals are calling for abolishment of police, community control, or defunding the police while liberals are treating this as a victory. In a sense, this can be understood as a victory because the liberals are scrambling to negotiate to sap power from the movement. I’m relatively optimistic on how things are trending so far
#295




#296
Black people kneel like this


White people kneel like this
#297


looks like the cops have turned to the FBI for help after the city PD false flag attack fell apart yesterday.
#298
nancy pelosi kneeling reminds me of every teen on tik tok dabbing to a 2 chains song from 2014
#299
Going by the state of her face I'd say she'd be very pleased to know she reminds anyone of a teenager
#300

pogfan1996 posted:

This is really showing the difference between liberal and radical groups on the ground, the radicals are calling for abolishment of police, community control, or defunding the police while liberals are treating this as a victory. In a sense, this can be understood as a victory because the liberals are scrambling to negotiate to sap power from the movement. I’m relatively optimistic on how things are trending so far



I was actually surprised at what happened in a protest in my city 2 days ago. There were a lot of bougie elements, people saying "please vote" and not many saying "ACAB" or "the system was built this way" so I didnt expect many to be that radical. But at the end of the march, there was a PSL organizer who said "we are not here despite the democrats, where are here because of them" and the crowd cheered. So I hope some people got the message.

#301
thats a very ambiguous message.
#302
Here's where the different leftist parties stand on the defunding the police, abolishing the police, and community control.

psl:
Initial statement: https://www.liberationnews.org/psl-statement-justice-for-george-floyd/

We cannot depend on the Federal Bureau of Investigations, which has begun to look into the killing, for justice. The FBI is a violent state institution that has been wielded as a weapon against the liberation movement of Black people in the United States. The FBI has never been fair and partial to the Black community. Real justice will be brought about when the people organize and fight for their own demands in the face of racist oppression by the U.S. capitalist state. The police will always fulfill their role of being shock troops for white supremacy and capitalism as long as it exists in this racist state.



A lot of their twitter accounts have been calling for defunding the police in various localities, but I haven't seen an organizational statement on where they land.

cpusa:
https://cpusa.org/party_voices/end-the-repression-in-dc/

We call on Mayor Bowser to heed the demands of Black Lives Matter DC as well as BYP100 DC to defund the DC police force, and to back up her dissenting rhetoric with truly dissenting actions. It is not too late for Mayor Bowser to get on the right side of this struggle and meet the demands of protesters in active opposition to a fascistic leader. We implore her to act swiftly in a real showing of solidarity with working class people of color by immediately committing to defund the police and re-route those funds to meaningful public services.



frso:
https://www.fightbacknews.org/2020/6/8/minneapolis-disband-defund-or-community-control-police

“These politicians know that nobody out in the streets for justice likes the police,” says VanPelt. “It’s easy to promise us abolition if you know it’s not in your power to deliver. But in the real world, you can’t just dismantle the police. This whole system of exploitation and white supremacy needs to be dismantled!”

Twin Cities Coalition for Justice 4 Jamar is fighting for community control of police and will formally re-present their proposal to the city council this week.



wwp:
articles going back to 2016 calling for defunding/abolishing the police, replacing with community services
https://www.workers.org/2016/07/26327/amp/

“The ongoing Movement for Black Lives is intensifying the challenge to the structural role of police in maintaining an oppressive system. As the movement against racist state police terror expands, that challenge is growing. In our campaign we say: Defund and disempower the police! On to disarming and abolishing the police!”



swp:
lots of whining about people breaking windows and making fun of them at protests, some choice quotes. they don't have any actual position on next steps but i never pass up an opportunity to make fun of trots
https://themilitant.com/2020/06/06/worldwide-protests-hit-cop-killing-of-george-floyd/

The destructive assaults “are a deadly obstacle to building the fight to end police violence and the struggle to defend working people,” Rosenfeld noted. He pointed out they unnecessarily “give the government a handle to blame protesters, not the cops and their ruthless brutality.” President Donald Trump seized on the looting to threaten to send the military to occupy cities across the country.
...
Hundreds of businesses and other buildings in the Twin Cities have been burned, looted or damaged. The government shut down all public transport. Many gas stations, grocery stores, banks and pharmacies are closed, imposing serious hardships on working people needing medicines, food and public transportation for work.
...
After four days of sizable protests and nights of looting and destruction organized by groups of anarchists, provocateurs and opportunists, Gov. Tim Walz imposed a curfew on both cities and organized the largest mobilization of the state’s National Guard since the second imperialist World War, along with State Police and other area cops.
...
“The killing of George Floyd was horrific,” Rottach told the Militant. “But to have people stripped of the service the post office provides, that hurts the community.”
...
Three young people from Martinsburg carried a sign at the May 29 protest here that read, “Let me kneel on your neck for seven minutes and see if you can breathe.” A few at the action taunted these youth, saying because they are Caucasian they didn’t have a place at the march. Undeterred, they replied that police brutality is their fight as well, winning support from many others who had joined the protest. They stayed.



DSA:
The DSA branches here have been posting lots of defund the police stuff, but the DSA as an organization doesn't believe in anything or stand for anything so whatever

IMT:
Basically their view is that violence is bad and you should join their party to create a real revolution, they claim that the current movement is leaderless and completely spontaneous.
https://socialistrevolution.org/uprising-shakes-the-us-reaping-the-whirlwind/

I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of groups, but as usual, the trots somehow have the worst take on this entire thing

Edited by pogfan1996 ()

#303
caps has been cancelled. also, cops have been cancelled
#304

pogfan1996 posted:

“The killing of George Floyd was horrific,” Rottach told the Militant. “But to have people stripped of the service the post office provides, that hurts the community.”


setting up a mailbox over trotsky's grave so that they'll get over the whole icepick thing

#305

pogfan1996 posted:

swp:


not sure what's funnier, "the militant dot com", or "The killing of George Floyd was horrific. But"

#306
“The deaths from the virus are horrific,” Rottach told the Militant. “But to have people stripped of their right to have a hair cut, that hurts the community."
#307
the military is currently deployed to the twin cities, guarding a statue of colombus that was taken down by native american activists. thank g*d the military is here to protect the precious symbols of amerika
#308
Taking down statues is the first step in denazification. Second step? distributing Euro-Amerikans throughout the the third world.
#309
Also any future communist revolution in North America is lucky that their Kronstadt, the inevitable ultra leftist revolt against proletariat power, will be looking to CHAZ as their guide.
#310

Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia posted:

not sure what's funnier, "the militant dot com", or "The killing of George Floyd was horrific. But"


Pathfinder Press has some interesting books about Cuba I want to read sometime. One is the translated memoirs of a Cuban military officer who commanded troops in Angola. Not sure about that other stuff though.

#311
i feel like i am missing something here. like my take is the cops retreated partly to let the protesters get it out of their system and partly to wait on the new shipment of tear gas and rubber bullets, as i read reports they were running low and the mayor was embarrassed they ignored her 30 day prohibition. so they leave the PD unlocked just in case the protesters wanna commit some telegenic arson and regroup in the meantime. apparently the people in the free zone are talking about this lasting into next year tho? but what is "this"?

i can't help but feel pretty skeptical of where this is all going. feel like we've been here plenty of times before.
#312
ok someone sent me this

https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the-demands-of-the-collective-black-voices-at-free-capitol-hill-to-the-government-of-seattle-ddaee51d3e47
#313
It's day 2 and people are getting roughed up by an Airbnb landlord turned judge dredd so I think skepticism is sensible
#314

overfire posted:

It's day 2 and people are getting roughed up by an Airbnb landlord turned judge dredd so I think skepticism is sensible



aha. felt like i was going a tad insane reading all the uncritical praise. and apparently they can't get rid of this instagram landlord because his faction has the most guns lol. anarchists never disappoint.

#315
Isn't this just Occupy 2?
#316

colddays posted:

Isn't this just Occupy 2?


yeah but some of them have guns now

#317

ghostpinballer posted:

overfire posted:


It's day 2 and people are getting roughed up by an Airbnb landlord turned judge dredd so I think skepticism is sensible



aha. felt like i was going a tad insane reading all the uncritical praise. and apparently they can't get rid of this instagram landlord because his faction has the most guns lol. anarchists never disappoint.



not to admonish you but reddit is not a news source on this. this red zone will last longer than people anticipate. and in the meantime we know what the FBI does against movements like this, same thing they did last time but in the new media, seed places like reddit with race scare stories, and find for the black nation some real ignorant whites living behind the barricades. and they're going to post it on reddit because they can buy 5,000 computers to upvote it to put a democratic veneer on it to better launder their shit.

i hope since occupy our class has studied all the simultaneous, total defeats of the occupied zones by police, and before setting up this future confrontation with police, have learned how to win against them militarily. i don't think anybody posting here has any idea but maybe some silent lurkers want an intellectual project to study for the next test, because if this is what your class is up to in this era it is going to need real help.

Edited by toyot ()

#318

ghostpinballer posted:

i feel like i am missing something here. like my take is the cops retreated partly to let the protesters get it out of their system and partly to wait on the new shipment of tear gas and rubber bullets, as i read reports they were running low and the mayor was embarrassed they ignored her 30 day prohibition. so they leave the PD unlocked just in case the protesters wanna commit some telegenic arson and regroup in the meantime. apparently the people in the free zone are talking about this lasting into next year tho? but what is "this"?

i can't help but feel pretty skeptical of where this is all going. feel like we've been here plenty of times before.


yeah afaik the cops backed off so people just kind of christened this area with the name, and some volunteers are distributing food or picking up trash... besides the fact that it continues to exist in the absence of police, the most impactful thing seems to be the "Autonomous Zone" branding setting off massive takes from people on all sides



combining it with the set of demands posted previously maybe it's like a bigger more coherent occupy?

Edited by ilmdge ()

#319
Have we not seen the spontaneous, leaderless thing happen many times within our lifetimes now and become pretty well-versed with the playbook and conclusion? I am a random Brit so I can't go and visit and my opinion really doesn't matter, but this looks like it has 2 weeks tops to me.
#320
I’m the biggest anarcho basher on the forum but if you’re going to parrot cop Nazi shit about Seattle for pseudo-Red cred then imo just log out instead. You’re welcome