sissyfuss posted:"access to opportunity"
speaks to the fact that our nazi underground is much better organized than their colleagues in the US tbh, with a broader base of support in government and amongst the police than anyone wants to admit tbh. it's a holdover from when the national front and BNP made inroads into the football firms in the 60s, 70s and 80s. the modern incarnation is the football lads alliance and EDL. its all incredibly embarrassing because it's british, but also legitimately terrifying because they can genuinely occupy and control public space when activated and the police won't/can't do shit. a lot of the ultras yesterday won't even really have known who was paying for the drinks, drugs, train fare, and laying on the coaches to bring them into london, and the uk press is fascist as fuck so they have no interest in finding out where the money is coming from either. and the met will always fall back and retreat when confronted with organized right wing white violence.
hearing a fair few london crews mobbed up and took down isolated groups of ultras as and when they could, which is good but also i won't be surprised if the pigs are putting more effort into finding them than investigating the ultras.
Edited by ghostpinballer ()
Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia posted:It was a little unsettling to see that reported widely in the press as merely the work of "soccer hooligans".
the bbc described the seig heiling in westminster as "protesters raising their arms".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-53031072?
we live in such a state of denial, it's all pervasive. we like to pretend this kind of social unrest is confined to america, so when it does flare up over here the response from the right and the media is pretty ferocious. when we last had widespread rioting and protests in 2011 over a racist police killing there were guardian journalists calling for the army to be deployed.
tears posted:colddays posted:
Isn't this just Occupy 2?
is this not far more rooted in exclusion of police from an area of space though, rather than about how the banks "stole our moneyTM"
To be clear, I think it's incredible regardless. I'd be there if I could. I should have worded it differently because I don't want to deride, but I'm curious about how this is different from Occupy in practice and strategy because that's going to be a better indicator of how it's going to develop and conclude than the reasons behind it. From what I've seen so far it doesn't seem like there's any real plan to exclude the police from this space other than continuing to occupy it, and exploiting the contradictions in the city and state that keep the cops from just taking the space by force. Eventually the city will order as much tear gas and skull crackings as necessary to get the precinct back.
And thinking out loud, it'd be futile for the CHAZ people to try to hold any particular ground indefinitely wouldn't it? It reminds me of what Mao wrote on guerilla warfare. Revolutions have often had to deal with this same problem of uneven forces. Maybe this is a very early lesson in urban revolutionary tactics in this country.
In terms of tactics re: police, as much shit as I liked to talk about the failures of the occupy ICE encampment I was at, it was a huge advance over the tactics of occupy wall street against police. Which were basically, let the police fuck up huge crowds of people, let them take stuff, let them stall marches and run the show generally. OWS improved on the logic of squatting by saying, capital has forbidden our quietly squatting in tiny groups in houses to solve the houseless crisis, so let's a thousand of us go noisily squat in the headquarters of capital so we will be heard. Then we learned that capital has no problem unleashing police on thousands of people in a public park who are simply pretending to squat. So then Occupy ICE advanced in a better direction. I had a conversation with a portland activist during the neo-nazi rallies and counterprotests that had occurred in the spring before Occupy ICE and we were discussing the impossibility of going and protesting at, say, the city jail, because the police would just rub you out for walking on their turf. A month later a police weak point was totally blockaded by anarchist teenagers with nothing but millions of pallets and collapsible chairs, and after that was broken up there were a few really scary protests (including one where an unknown agitator beat a city hall worker on the head with a skateboard) right at city hall. So now the squatting has moved to the people who control the police budget. I think defunding the police, even a shitty compromise budget reduction that leaves police intact, opens up room for advancement on all other fronts, including squatting of vacant property which is what we could have just all done in the first place. But no, we had to go through this embarrassing consensus-building four-layer crowd-reverb shit first
Edited by swampman ()
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/15/california-robert-fuller-hanging-death-invetigation posted:The FBI and the California attorney general’s office will monitor the investigation into the hanging death of a Black man in the south of the state, in one of two cases that have resurfaced fears of lynchings during a time of racial tensions and mistrust of law enforcement in the country.
Robert Fuller, 24, was found hanging from a tree near Palmdale city hall in the early hours of 10 June. The county medical examiner labeled the preliminary cause of death as suicide pending a full autopsy. But the office deferred that decision after community members demanded a full investigation in a contentious news briefing late last week.
...
Meanwhile, the family members of a 38-year-old man who died on 31 May in Victorville, California, are also raising questions about officials’ account of their relative’s death. Malcolm Harsch’s body was discovered 50 miles from Palmdale, hanging from a tree in front of the Victorville public library in San Bernardino county.
Harsch had been living at a nearby homeless encampment, the San Bernardino county sheriff’s department said in a statement. Encampment residents had cut him down and were rendering aid to him when department personnel arrived. The sheriff’s department “did not recover any evidence to suggest foul play” at the scene.
Harsch’s family feared that the coroner’s office, which did not conduct an autopsy until 12 days after his body was discovered, will dismiss his death as a suicide.
“Malcom Harsch was 6 ft 3in tall and was found with blood on his shirt, hung by a USB cord, just 4 hours after he was reportedly stopped by a Victorville police officer!” Harsch’s sister Harmonie Harsch posted on Facebook. “THIS WAS NOT A SUICIDE!”
ghostpinballer posted:so there was a fucking football casual riot in london and a few other cities here yesterday, ostensibly to protect "our statues" from BLM antifa whatever. a bunch of coked up skinny fat pink lads in boot cut jeans kicked the shit out of the met police in the middle of trafalgar square. total arrests: 5. five.
speaks to the fact that our nazi underground is much better organized than their colleagues in the US tbh, with a broader base of support in government and amongst the police than anyone wants to admit tbh. it's a holdover from when the national front and BNP made inroads into the football firms in the 60s, 70s and 80s. the modern incarnation is the football lads alliance and EDL. its all incredibly embarrassing because it's british, but also legitimately terrifying because they can genuinely occupy and control public space when activated and the police won't/can't do shit. a lot of the ultras yesterday won't even really have known who was paying for the drinks, drugs, train fare, and laying on the coaches to bring them into london, and the uk press is fascist as fuck so they have no interest in finding out where the money is coming from either. and the met will always fall back and retreat when confronted with organized right wing white violence.
hearing a fair few london crews mobbed up and took down isolated groups of ultras as and when they could, which is good but also i won't be surprised if the pigs are putting more effort into finding them than investigating the ultras.
Interesting post. It felt like the reaction started to cohere over the weekend... normally it doesn't take them that long... and saw some cases of white mobs popping up in the States. In Philly there were a group of guys who normally spend 2:00 in the afternoon smoking cigars on the sidewalk while looking up Mets statistics getting organized and carrying baseball bats. Probably worse happening that isn't getting reported. The other evening in Albuquerque a militia that colludes with cops popped up to flex on demonstrators taking down a statue of Juan de Oñate, a particularly vicious genocidaire. The son of a sheriff's deputy went in to start a fight and shot a protester when he began losing that fight. That stopped the statue from being removed, for a moment -- the city rushed to announce they're going to take it down anyways.
Also the guy who was shot lived.
But yeah... the Brit fash putting down mass on the street like that is concerning. I don't think the small group and individual actions like in Albuquerque have been working for them though. I sometimes check in on right-wing sites to see what they're saying -- I don't do it as much nowadays but I did for this -- and noticed an oscillation between a fanatical urge to kill among some and others who think it'll backfire and suggest doing nothing. They're still going to lose that statue though so if the goal was to prevent it from happening then the plan failed.
I think there's a definite class relationship involved here. It might be different for football ultras in Britain, don't know much about them, but a lot of these guys in the U.S. are pretty comfortable, middle-class white guys who live in the suburbs. For one most of these guys have never been a fight, let alone getting into a fight with multiple people and having to fight their way out. The force of events thrusts them into action and into radicalism but the form reflects their class background. They decide to act out individually or as part of small, elitist groups. They make political mistakes when their plans they dreamed up in the shower violently clash with a mass struggle that has those in power freaked out. That's why I'm less worried about individual actions -- as gruesome and bad as they can be -- as I am about them adjusting to put more mass on the ground. Not that I don't worry about the former but it's just a matter of scale.
I mean it's not that different from why we tell white people to listen to the black organizers when they show up, because we know that a decent number of these white people share a similar class background and they've just witnessed something brutal and awful or insane so they've "radicalized" and thrust themselves into the movement. And that can all be very inspiring but it can also be dangerous because black folks have been struggling against racial oppression and police oppression their whole lives, and a white middle-class leftist or liberal now getting the memo and flipping out, wanting to redeem themselves, etc. can cause problems. I think it's the difference between petit-bourgeois radicalism and mass struggle. You know it's nothing personal you just need to order them to do that so they shut the fuck up, listen, and get out of that individualistic mindset.
swampman posted:(including one where an unknown agitator beat a city hall worker on the head with a skateboard)
trakfactri posted:I think there's a definite class relationship involved here. It might be different for football ultras in Britain, don't know much about them, but a lot of these guys in the U.S. are pretty comfortable, middle-class white guys who live in the suburbs. For one most of these guys have never been a fight, let alone getting into a fight with multiple people and having to fight their way out. The force of events thrusts them into action and into radicalism but the form reflects their class background. They decide to act out individually or as part of small, elitist groups. They make political mistakes when their plans they dreamed up in the shower violently clash with a mass struggle that has those in power freaked out. That's why I'm less worried about individual actions -- as gruesome and bad as they can be -- as I am about them adjusting to put more mass on the ground. Not that I don't worry about the former but it's just a matter of scale.
mostly our ultras reflect more or less the same class make up as your alt right, white supremacist guys in the US, maybe they'll live on a council estate or something but most of them have 2 cars and lawn furniture, decent paying office/trade jobs, or are self-employed as tradesmen or whatever. maybe they'll supplement their income with low level drug dealing or car theft or something here and there. i saw some attempts from uk leftists this week to paint this as a "cry of the left behind" but honestly i don't find any value in that take. i just see a campaign of scorn, violence born of comfortable spite. they are the public manifestation of a worldview a lot of people in this country have, they just don't bother to march in london to express it. but yeh they're bored, spiteful, indulged by media and politicians to such an extent that our whole country has been thrown off balance and held back time and again so they get exactly what they want whenever they oink for it. there's a book called amongst the thugs (or something), by a guy called bill buford, american journalist who infiltrated some uk football firms in the 80s and saw first hand the overlap between the uk far-right, football crews, and sympathizers in the police etc. he's a lib but his take on them was quite prescient, he was shocked to discover how comfortable many of them were. he didn't realise he was describing what we'd today call the anglo alt right but the seeds were there. and growing up where i did i can confirm it mostly holds true. but the people mobilizing them have a very definite agenda and the cash/ability to turn these guys out in force.
edit: did not mean to go this long or incoherent, i think you get what i'm struggling towards tho
Edited by ghostpinballer ()
trakfactri posted:Gladio 2: Electric Boogaloo
https://i.ur.com/qJaM5jk.png
https://i.ur.com/6V4jkYo.png
CIA: "Oh shit, the real anti-government revolutionaries are starting to fuck up our fake anti-government revolution, better reinstate the Rule of Law and caring about Dead Cops again"
*Boogaloo Boy full of actual Revolutionary Energy and who has actually shot a gun or slept overnight in a tent even once in his entire life kills a cop*
Antifa kid: "noooooooo, not like thaaaaaat!"
trust fund commies mad at petit-bourgeois marketgoers being killed by revolutionary black hand agents
Cutting the #LAPD budget means longer responses to 911 calls; officers calling for backup won’t get it; rape, murder & assault investigations won’t occur or will take forever to complete. An arbitrary cut of $150m will have a huge impact on our community. https://t.co/OlvgVysxQz
— LAPPL (@LAPPL) June 8, 2020
i guess the first billion dollars is just for the pigs to roll out of bed in the morning and put on their uniforms
Superabound posted:Antifa kid whose dad has a net worth of $25 million dollars and might actually be Bill DeBlasio: "Kill the Police! Smash the System! Blue Lives Don't Matter!"
*Boogaloo Boy full of actual Revolutionary Energy and who has actually shot a gun or slept overnight in a tent even once in his entire life kills a cop*
Antifa kid: "noooooooo, not like thaaaaaat!"
lol
Superabound posted:*Boogaloo Boy full of actual Revolutionary Energy and who has actually shot a gun or slept overnight in a tent even once in his entire life kills a cop*
Hi mister, I don't believe we've met before, but I don't believe in shooting people. I think that's wrong.
Superabound posted:Antifa kid whose dad has a net worth of $25 million dollars and might actually be Bill DeBlasio: "Kill the Police! Smash the System! Blue Lives Don't Matter!"
*Boogaloo Boy full of actual Revolutionary Energy and who has actually shot a gun or slept overnight in a tent even once in his entire life kills a cop*
Antifa kid: "noooooooo, not like thaaaaaat!"
Heck, maybe the thousands of peaceful protesters at the anti police brutality marches are the real vigilantes
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/16/us/steven-carrillo-air-force-boogaloo.html posted:The sergeant had expressed his allegiance to the so-called boogaloo movement by writing with his own blood on the hood of a white Toyota Camry
ghostpinballer posted:so there was a fucking football casual riot in london and a few other cities here yesterday, ostensibly to protect "our statues" from BLM antifa whatever. a bunch of coked up skinny fat pink lads in boot cut jeans kicked the shit out of the met police in the middle of trafalgar square. total arrests: 5. five.
speaks to the fact that our nazi underground is much better organized than their colleagues in the US tbh, with a broader base of support in government and amongst the police than anyone wants to admit tbh. it's a holdover from when the national front and BNP made inroads into the football firms in the 60s, 70s and 80s. the modern incarnation is the football lads alliance and EDL. its all incredibly embarrassing because it's british, but also legitimately terrifying because they can genuinely occupy and control public space when activated and the police won't/can't do shit. a lot of the ultras yesterday won't even really have known who was paying for the drinks, drugs, train fare, and laying on the coaches to bring them into london, and the uk press is fascist as fuck so they have no interest in finding out where the money is coming from either. and the met will always fall back and retreat when confronted with organized right wing white violence.
hearing a fair few london crews mobbed up and took down isolated groups of ultras as and when they could, which is good but also i won't be surprised if the pigs are putting more effort into finding them than investigating the ultras.
lmfao this is child's play compared to the white supremacist organization in america. when covid hit, trump mobilized every armed white militia in every state to storm their state capitals with assault rifles, screaming nose to nose in cops' faces. they don't beat up the cops because they don't have to. they can take this country when ever they want. i remember back in 2014 when cliven bundy and his supporters scared off the entire FBI when he wouldn't pay his grazing fees (which he never paid and was exonerated for pointing his guns at all those cops.)
Edited by oilyechidna ()
oilyechidna posted:they aren't? he's talking about soccer goons, i'm talking about armies of brownshirts armed to the teeth and practically deputized by the police.
maybe your could make a virgin vs chad meme about it?
toyot posted:
seriously we need to teach these people labor skills. how could grown men build that lol
did they... glue it together...? with expanding foam...?