The final scene with Worf curb-stomping Quark was brutal but really drove home the point in regards to built up tension, and the horrific reality of all the death and destruction caused by the war.
in ds9 s5/e13 sisko straight up causes an ecocidal event, scores of refugees, all to live out the heavy-handed and overt jalvert counter-fantasy, and the episode ends on a clear - not implicit, but *didactic* - high note
dax straight up smiles like she just got off worf's murderous dong
cars posted:Dax is at the office with Kira and is like, Hey, um so, does it really, like, change a person to murder someone?
didn't her previous hosts kill people? you'd think she'd have a pretty good idea by that point
Synergy posted:didn't her previous hosts kill people? you'd think she'd have a pretty good idea by that point
Whatever was convenient. One of the Dax hosts was a pilot and was apparently saw a decent amount of ground combat at some point, but that second part wasn't invented by the writers until the point in the show where Jadzia's dead, and he's portrayed briefly before that as a carefree epicurean. The Klingon-kin guy was "in battle" a whole bunch I guess, he did swear an oath to cut a guy's heart out and eat it and apparently Jon Colicos believed him, but that's likewise mostly ignored until after Terry Farrell leaves the show. The next season had a story about a one-off murder of passion by a host whose memories were suppressed in other hosts until Jadzia accepts then into herself in a hippie hot tub ritual, but it's a crap episode where she doesn't have any impact on the plot otherwise so later they decided that guy was Hannibal Lecter and kind of had his own locked apartment inside the worm.
The writers are vague from episode to episode about how directly the worm people experience the memories of past lives, in the normal way that Star Trek handles sci-fi concepts, again, it's whatever they need to tell that episode's story. But since Dax became less gnomic and more dynamic starting with the '60s Klingons episode—mainly because that let Farrell earn her main-cast paycheck by acting instead of just smiling or frowning cryptically at other actors in stories supposedly involving her character—most of what Jadzia calls up is like, blood knowledge on how to keep it real with the Klingons, or that she still wants to cuddle her worm person ex-wife. A lot of it was comedy because Farrell has good timing, a weirdly important thing for a Star Trek cast to have, because they like to do comedy but often the jokes aren't funny as written. Deep Space Nine probably had more aggregate comedy talent used more effectively than any other Star Trek thing, though the movies Nicholas Meyer worked on come close. But yeah not a lot of room for musing about how many people Dax had shot.
When Farrell got fed up with one of the bigwigs talking nonstop about her bust size and left to join Ted Danson's latest sitcom, the showrunners went ahead and cleared out their backlog of stories about how several lifetimes of memories would make you a traumatized basket-case. They dumped the new Dax role on Nicole De Boer, whose resume at that point was mostly Kids in the Hall and Cube. She does fine with it, she's talented, but her character when she's first introduced is supposed to be a highly effective and professional psychotherapist who's suddenly regressed into an emotionally unstable child, because they randomly stuck the worm in her for the epic win so it wouldn't die when Jadzia did. Since we never met the person Ezri was before, that angle didn't work, they mostly forget about it and she becomes a perky motormouth '90s-girl character who solves family mysteries and says uncomfortable things to people in between mental breakdowns. So Ezri's the one who gets trained in murderer-murdering by the leering Hannibal Lecter personality, and she's the one in the Battle of Khe Sanh episode musing about how she used to be all these battle-hardened people who played every role in the platoon so now she's a dissociative manic pixie Delta Force or something.
i couldn't stop laughing at Janeway immediately putting the Maquis crew in top leadership roles on the ship
Quality goes bimodal a little while after that, good episodes mixed with just plain terrible ones. The show overall improves again at the very last episode of season 5, when everyone shakes off the better show they could have made in a season-bridging two-parter, and goes on to turn the show into a movie-of-the-week action-comedy, where there are probably fewer good episodes but the average episode isn't nearly as bad as it used to be.
Fan consensus is that season 4 is the best, but I think seasons 5, 6 and 7 are better because they seem to accept the show's gone off the rails.
VOYAGER EPISODES that are GOOD OR OKAY, from a list I made for someone a while back ('GOOD OR OKAY VOYAGER EPISODES'):
⚫ "Heroes and Demons", season 1 (this is just Beowulf with Picardo playing Beowulf)
⚫ "Meld", season 2 (guest-star Brad Dourif)
⚫ "Future's End, pts. 1 & 2", season 3 (guest-star Ed Begley, Jr.)
⚫ "Warlord", season 3 (so-so episode where Lien is allowed to play an interesting character)
⚫ "Macrocosm", season 3 (this is just ALIENS with Mulgrew playing Ripley)
⚫ "Worst-Case Scenario", season 3 (the show takes the piss out of itself over ignoring that half its crew are anti-Starfleet terrorists)
⚫ "Distant Origin", season 3 ('90s version of a '60s Star Trek episode)
⚫ "Scorpion, pt. 1", season 3, and "Scorpion, pt. 2" and "The Gift", season 4 (TV movie introducing Ryan's character, padded out by boring stuff)
⚫ "The Raven", season 4 (PTSD episode about Ryan's character, padded out by boring stuff)
⚫ "Year of Hell, pts. 1 and 2", season 4 (the show takes the piss out of itself over how Voyager still looks like a health spa waiting room after 3+ years sans maintenance)
⚫ "Hunters" and "Prey", season 4 (this is just PREDATOR if the Predators talked, mixed with another decent episode about Ryan's character)
⚫ "The Killing Game, pts. 1 and 2", season 4 (see previous item, add WWII stuff that Mulgrew has fun with, also Garrett Wang is finally given something to do)
○○○ This episode has Ryan's GOAT scene on Voyager, an exchange where her character wields her sadsack, fan-pandering trauma like a sledgehammer
⚫ "Living Witness", season 4 (Picardo-centric show about history as a science; the cast portray their characters as most of the aliens they meet probably see them)
⚫ "Demon", season 4 (TV-friendly body horror)
⚫ "Hope and Fear", season 4 (Ryan/Mulgrew episode about someone trying to make the crew pay for insane reckless endangerment)
⚫ "Extreme Risk", season 5 (Roxann Dawson PTSD episode that sort-of ties into Deep Space Nine)
⚫ "Timeless", season 5 (Garrett Wang PTSD episode, have you noticed a trend yet)
⚫ "Infinite Regress", season 5 (Ryan has to play a bunch of Star Trek aliens about which she knew nothing beforehand, and succeeds)
⚫ "Thirty Days", season 5 (Robert Duncan McNeill goes to jail)
⚫ "Counterpoint", season 5 (silly, but just a good episode for Mulgrew)
⚫ "Latent Image", season 5 (Picardo episode, every character except Picardo's and Ryan's shares a writer-inserted backstory where they're incredibly evil)
⚫ "Bride of Chaotica!", season 5 (fun little episode for everyone on the cast, could have turned out terrible but instead it's good)
⚫ "Bliss", season 5 (Ryan/Picardo episode where everyone else fucks off)
⚫ "Dark Frontier", season 5 (hammy, melodramatic Ryan episode, would be terrible with a lesser actor in the role)
⚫ "Course: Oblivion", season 5 (a sequel to one of the episodes on this list but I won't tell you which one!!)
⚫ "Think Tank", season 5 (guest star George Costanza)
⚫ "Relativity", season 5 (Ryan-centric adventure featuring Mulgrew, sequel to "Future's End", actually kind of funny by intent instead of on accident)
⚫ "Equinox, pt. 1", season 5, and "Equinox, pt. 2", season 6 (the show kills off the better version of itself it can never be)
⚫ "Barge of the Dead", season 6 (weird Roxann Dawson episode about death & Hell, written by Ron Moore, who joined Voyager and quit immediately)
⚫ "Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy", season 6 (Picardo comedy episode)
⚫ "The Voyager Conspiracy", season 6 (Ryan episode that serves as a critical assessment of the show up to that point)
○○○ This is probably my favorite episode, but it only works where it does, in the second-to-last season
⚫ "Pathfinder", season 6 (Next Generation sequel show)
⚫ "Blink of an Eye", season 6 (Picardo tragedy episode)
⚫ "Virtuoso", season 6 (Picardo tragicomedy episode)
⚫ "Tsunkatse", season 6 (bizarrely good Ryan-centric Bloodsport episode, guest starring Dwayne Johnson)
⚫ "Collective", season 6 (Ryan's character becomes a mom)
⚫ "Ashes to Ashes", season 6 (Garrett Wang episode that almost pulls off a high-concept premise about life & death)
⚫ "Child's Play", season 6 (sequel to "Collective", Ryan's character continues to be a mom)
⚫ "Good Shepherd", season 6 (episode about the clock-punchers on Voyager who found themselves stranded for years with their insane bosses)
⚫ "Live Fast and Prosper", season 6 (the show takes the piss out of the entire Star Trek franchise as a commercial enterprise)
⚫ "Life Line", season 6 (Picardo-centric sequel to "Pathfinder")
⚫ "Drive", season 7 (Voyager enters a shuttlecraft in a race and the show abandons what remains of its series premise)
⚫ "Body and Soul", season 7 (Ryan/Picardo episode, the show takes the piss out of the way it sold its best actor to Star Trek fans)
⚫ "Flesh and Blood, pts. 1 and 2", season 7 (sequel to "The Killing Game" that undermines the entire political slant of Star Trek)
⚫ "Shattered", season 7 (after 6+ years of practice, the show metastasizes into self-consuming auto-critique)
⚫ "Prophecy", season 7 (weird Roxann Dawson Klingon episode)
⚫ "The Void", season 7 (posthumous twitch of the "Equinox" show-that-never-was)
⚫ "Workforce, pts. 1 and 2", season 7 (a show about alienation that even kind of works in places??)
⚫ "Human Error", season 7 (the show invents a love story for Ryan's character way too late, a sizzle reel for her post-Voyager career)
⚫ "Author, Author", season 7 (this is just a Data episode from Next Generation with Picardo playing Data)
⚫ "Renaissance Man", season 7 (Picardo/Mulgrew comedy sequel to "Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy")
⚫ "Endgame", season 7 (the show ends as it should, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing)
...so anyway, enjoy watching Star Trek: Voyager, like, up to two-fifths of the time maybe.
Edited by cars ()
cars posted:VOYAGER EPISODES that are GOOD OR OKAY, from a list I made for someone a while back ('GOOD OR OKAY VOYAGER EPISODES'):
⚫
If I whittled that Voyager list down to just truly good episodes, it would be much shorter, but since Voyager's also the only Star Trek show where most of the best episodes are blatantly about itself as a project or Star Trek as a franchise, nearly every item would have the disclaimer, "you have to watch _____ and _____ to get it". Which is as damning a critique as you can make about a show that stubbornly rejected serialized story arcs at the same time Deep Space Nine embraced them.
damoj posted:i just need to know if this skit is better or worse than most episodes of voyager
haven't watched it yet but the answer is "better"
It's a great episode only if you know enough to accept how bad the show is and why, and I don't know that anyone needs to figure that out on purpose.
Edited by Populares ()
suffice it to say this show isn't as historically materialist as it could be
cars posted:I wouldn't call it socialist
it's interesting to see how many star trek characters fetishize bourgeois historical settings in the holodeck. it's never liberation movements like the black panthers or w/e, always just white fantasy positions of power
Synergy posted:cars posted:
I wouldn't call it socialist
it's interesting to see how many star trek characters fetishize bourgeois historical settings in the holodeck. it's never liberation movements like the black panthers or w/e, always just white fantasy positions of power
the closest thing you get is the fictional Bell riots, and of course that's all portrayed as a mistake, as if Fred Hampton fell onto a cop's bullet because of time travel or whatever
Botany Bay
Nuclear-powered vessel of the DY-100 class, which was Earth's standard interplanetary transport of the late 20th century. Named after an infamous Australian penal colony, the S.S. Botany Bay was converted into a "sleeper ship" and launched in 1996 with refugees from the Eugenics Wars, namely Khan Noonien Singh and his band of genetically-bred "supermen." The launch was kept secret in order to not alarm a war-weary population that the tyrant who controlled more than one-fourth of the planet from 1992-96 was still alive. After being defeated in Earth's Eugenics Wars, Khan and his followers hoped to find another world to conquer and rule.
cars posted:Deep Space Nine may be a good anime.
"Deep Space Nine is the best of all animes" -Rhizzone poster "shriekingviolet"