#121

Gibbonstrength posted:

maybe im biased because he hates sam harris


this is like those three white guys in LA who each independently claim to be the Sole Inheritor of the Very Secret Authentic Ninjitsu Teachings, and each one hates the other two and will rant about how they are obvious ridiculous frauds

#122
those guys love each other except for minor differences & have a virtually identical audience, whatever hate anyone perceives is imaginary or performative
#123
same
#124
That was re: peterson & harris by the way i do not know anything about the rich LA ninjitsu tradition sadly.
#125
the brothers karamazov but jordan peterson is father zosima and joe rogan is the narrator
#126

blinkandwheeze posted:

those guys love each other except for minor differences & have a virtually identical audience, whatever hate anyone perceives is imaginary or performative



i have to disagree because harris' angle is that he doesn't need to provide facts or arguments or anything resembling those to make his case. its simply self-evident due to "reason" that his entire case (religion+Muslims is behind everything) is correct. peterson is making a seperate case by whipping out evopsych and cog psych material and basing his claims on that sort of pseudoscience. i dont think they lvoe each other or have similar goals even

#127
peterson does this far more explicitly than harris does in his constant appeals to a contorted half-understood jamesian pragmatism which explicitly elevates mythic & archetypal cultural narratives to a status of validity equal to and in excess of scientific claims. the refusal of harris' resort to reason isn't a resort to a simpler naive scientism but specifically the elevation of a mythic irrationalism as a foundation for empirically unintelligible claims. his invocation of paper thin evopsych material functions in the same way harris or his ilk doing so does, a haphazard ex post facto effort to adopt a vague veneer of serious scholarship

the idea that he simply pursues a juvenile scientism is strange to me because his open and explicit rejection of scientific realism is probably the most defining and novel distinguishing feature of his work

#128

blinkandwheeze posted:

those guys love each other except for minor differences & have a virtually identical audience,


...they hate each other to death because one gets ten dollars more a month on their patreon and the other one got published in that journal they got rejected from, have you never talked to an academic

#129
Sam Harris is an academic??
#130
he has a podcast doesnt he?
#131

Dimashq posted:

Interesting that rap only began to permeate white culture (culminating in SoundCloud rap) with the development of trap




#132

shriekingviolet posted:

this is like those three white guys in LA who each independently claim to be the Sole Inheritor of the Very Secret Authentic Ninjitsu Teachings, and each one hates the other two and will rant about how they are obvious ridiculous frauds



i'm all in on "Ashida Kim" because he lives with his mom in Florida and says the first ninjas were trained on the lost continent of Atlantis

#133
The fundamental underpinning of all these people like Peterson's arguments is that there are successful and unsuccessful societies, and that the only successful ones, as proved by history are liberal democratic bourgeois capitalist states (with, of course, white settler dominance of political power).

I've only seen a little of his twaddle just on how socialism never works and Marxists are all just delusional egomaniacs who say "it'll work next time!" This is the Marxism that is "Marxism" for a lot of liberals and whatever blend of right wing putz there is. The Marxist who says "well sure socialism hasn't worked in the past, but that's because we just haven't done it the right way!"

I genuinely think these Marxists are so enormously destructive and dangerous that it's difficult to articulate how much I think they are. They give these huge openings to people like Peterson to just say "socialism doesn't work. Socialism doesn't create 'good' societies." They never have to engage with the realities and achievements of the Soviet Union, Communist China (pre-restoration) etc. Just, "it never works."

I think if someone engaged with Peterson seriously on this subject it would be enormously helpful. I would wager that Peterson knows nothing about what life was or is like in any socialist state. He'll of course soon descend into babble about the 20 million Stalin killed! Or the 70 million Mao killed! I don't know the number that's been settled on yet. Or maybe he'll babble that the Nazis are socialists, that the Gulags were death camps.

But what I can tell you for certain is that he knows nothing about the public health projects of the Soviet Union, how wage compensation was determined, and how purchasing power rose.

He might rant about the Stasi if cornered, but could he tell you that the German Democratic Republic outpaced the average income of the U.K.?

I think the only way to get rid of these fucking liars is to demonstrate seriatim how they lie & lie & lie about the reality of socialist society. If Peterson hates socialism so much, then why do 76% of people over 65 in the Soviet Union say that it ending was a bad thing? Huh, what do you say to that bucko? You can't just reply to ever single clear fact and figure that demonstrates that socialism works, every time, with more bullshit about how the creative fever dreams of early man created universally true archetypes.
#134
Well apparently he's going to debate Zizek in New York in the fall. Of course, the two might end up agreeing re: 20th century socialism... but there's a chance Slavoj might embarass peterson
#135
I went to Reddit and found their subreddit and found their posts, i take back what i said, they are a cult
#136
.
#137

shriekingviolet posted:

Gibbonstrength posted:

maybe im biased because he hates sam harris

this is like those three white guys in LA who each independently claim to be the Sole Inheritor of the Very Secret Authentic Ninjitsu Teachings, and each one hates the other two and will rant about how they are obvious ridiculous frauds



are you talking about the Wu-Tang Clan? because theyre from nyc, and theyre not white, and there are more than three of them, and they actually ARE the inheritors of the Very Secret Authentic Ninjitsu Teachings, and hate is a strong word, they really only have mild beef with each other

#138
look at the comments for any article that's mildly critical of him. also see the occasional socmed madlib thinkbrain speaktoids along the lines of "how is he a rightwinger he hasn't said anything about corn subsidies or interning everyone darker than a paper bag"
#139

babyhueypnewton posted:

mugabe_glasses posted:

psychological coping mechanisms that our society needs more than anything is psychological flexibility - an acceptance of uncertainty.

I agree with the other stuff but the science of dialectical materialism is true and applies to all material reality, the call to "accept uncertainty" is a reactionary defeatist attitude which the margins of the petty-bourgeois left (who claim leadership of the occupied internal colonies) in the heart of neoliberal empire have clung to. Peterson is merely the defense against that by claiming capitalism is true and complete but it's packaged for the formerly ascendant white male petty-bourgeois, a class that is already in terminal decline. He is notable only because he has to vocalize white male settlerism which means it's already dead rather than hegemonic as common sense. Both deconstruction and it's reaction are corpses though they may take academia as we know it with them. Probably for the best.



I don't understand this point about how accepting uncertainty is reactionary, can you elaborate

#140
I think there is a reactionary element of buying into the idea that there's no way to guarantee social safety nets, that uncertainty has been the default position since human history and just buying into the idea that there are no ways to address inequality or whatever proponents of markets try to peddle. I don't know if that's what you're reacting to when I say that, but I think even with anything close to an ideal society, uncertainty is inherent in our existence, and a lot of our cultural drive to dominate and control (especially for those of us in the core of the empire) come down to a pathological inability to sit with uncertainty
#141
i think that the significant problem with harris and peterson is that they embody the age-old inferiority complex of psychology/-iatry as a soft or hard science...to me, what is more dangerous than anything they have said or done is that they, but particularly harris, have become a lantern for inferior/sinister/greedy/outright stupid clinicians, med researchers, pharmaceutical lobbyists etc. beyond reddit, they work to satisfy the desires of a peer-reviewed edition of buzzfeed, and allow NIH-funded research psychiatrists to say 'this guy was involved with harvard/stanford/whatever, and he says that you are your illness and that your genetic makeup, something i don't even understand, limits your capacity for well-being and betterment. try xanax.'.

i mean harris started out as an english major, took mdma and decided to piss off for a decade to embrance the coexist movement in southeast asia. if he had come from anywhere but hollywood, he would be walking around YMCAs saying "i've been to greece, i love greek food. i'm a foodie.".

instead though, he went to stanford and came from a family with a lot of connections. now he's still the same 19 year old, but thirty years later with a chip on his shoulder and takes his inability to find god out through reductive, objectifying neuroscience
#142
is this the part of the zone where i become schizophrenic
#143
does anybody have harris' phd thesis or know where to find it
#144

toyotathon posted:

does anybody have harris' phd thesis or know where to find it



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2748718/?tool=pubmed

#145
thank you that was even worse than i imagined
#146
primary battery for analysis is doing semi- complete readings of fMRI studies lol
#147
There is very little distinction between them except that one of them feeds of the arrogance of adolescent white boys who think in terms of The Western Man versus 'fundies' and the other one feeds off depressed adolescent white boys who think in terms of The Western Man versus the impending transsexual Muslim NKVD

Ideologically the main parts that matter about their views is that

1. They justify imperialism
2. They justify reaction against social justice
3. They are too idealist to be materialist because it sells better to give easy answers
#148
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/comments/81m0u9/zizek_irl/
#149
Mjust saw a ten second clip of Peterson explaining to a guy that women and men working in the same workplace is causing society to deteriorate. just like the other Fash Lite figures he'll just dig his own grave when the pathologies that underly his worldview crop up. Maybe he'll be forgotten for a while and then start a podcast that a small circle of semi-political undergrads will listen to, like Harris did.
#150

Belphegor posted:

Rule 10 Be precise in your speech



he does not even follow his own rules, pathetic.

#151
he doesnt clean his room either
#152
paul joseph watson created a video about how soy feminizes men and it got over 50k likes. i don't know if i can get shocked by the utter stupidity of reactionaries anymore.
#153

misanthropic_rage posted:

paul joseph watson created a video about how soy feminizes men and it got over 50k likes. i don't know if i can get shocked by the utter stupidity of reactionaries anymore.


In all seriousness i have no idea how these shut-ins tolerate that guy. He is extremely unwatchable. I used to watch infowars for a laugh and he ruined it. His lips flap like slugs and his voice is like being slowly hosed down with baby shit

#154
likes aren't real
#155
i eat a decent amount of soy and i have more visible muscle mass wearing a boston hellwinter coat than any altright man i have ever seen. unless...what if i was a testosterone werewolf without soy...
#156
as far as i know peterson will occasionally say something mind-bendingly stupid. a good take-down of him would just involve digging through dozens of hours of boring lectures to find the real nuggets. viewpoint making the point that he's never cracked open any of these political theory or philosophy books is correct, but neither have most people, so its not the most effective rebuttal (even though it should be).

in the same way that linking to sam harris waffling and remaining on the fence about buddhist re-incarnation is pretty damning, linking to j peterson talking about how ancient chinese art is actually a representation of dna would probably at least plant a few seeds of doubt.

Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()

#157
ah i see cars and againstthemoon already covered the viewpoint thing
#158
haha there appears to be 4+ hours of podcast debates and discussion between harris and peterson.
#159
i heard a clip from that a while ago. harris asked how novels could be of any value since "there are no facts in them," and you could tell by the ensuing silence that even peterson was a little taken aback.
#160
link?? thats hilarious