#281
congratulations are in order to the cpgb-ml, on their tremendous success in organizing to defend the british proletariat from european imperialism. "everything under heaven is in chaos, the situation is excellent", as harpal brar might say right now. solidariy with our comrades set to seize power with their disciplined and prepared cadre and leaders of the imminient USSK
#282
If youre concerned about the universality of ppw, we can see how post-brexit plays out for Red Guards Ilfordshirehamboro
#283
the entire island is saying things like "oh man, this govt is a shambles, surely may will resign" hahaha yeah theresa may cares about being humiliated and useless; and will probably quit

#284
I would laugh at their misfortune but the Irish Free State government is already drawing up plans to man the border with "Irish" Army and police forces and drawing up plans to lockup everyone remotely associated with republicanism. Countdown to potential descent into militarized comprador fascism begins now
#285

drwhat posted:

ialdabaoth posted:

drwhat posted:

hello all, after watching footage live from parliament i would just like to take this thread out of the back closet to say that i hope every mp dies in brexit-induced food riots. thank you

sure but why wish for food riots too

i think no-deal has a nonzero chance of creating some


I saw a flow chart the other day where basically every path wound up ending in no deal. I believed it immediately. It's happening

#286
the fuck is "no deal"
#287

sovnarkoman posted:

the fuck is "no deal"


it's ok, it's impossible, the parliament voted for no no deal

#288
i think certin posters like myself dont actually understand what all happens to Eugland when it flops out the EU like a placenta into a birthing pool
#289

swampman posted:

i think certin posters like myself dont actually understand what all happens to Eugland when it flops out the EU like a placenta into a birthing pool


dies of complications easily preventable by modern medicine because they refused to give birth at a hospital.

#290
it becomes a real boy again, with a real beating heart and its very own portfolio of international trade agreements. (looks in portfolio and a single fly lazily buzzes out)

in the very long term for british workers it is possible that it might be better, due to domestic industry and a smaller labour pool, right, i think we have talked about the left case for trump brexit on this forum before (and also the various cases against globalism), but if you exit with no deal you have no treaties with other countries, and you are required (afaik) to charge them WTO tariff rates because WTO Says So. you go immediately from zero tariffs on many commodities to WTO levels, which on a lot of things is 40%. as far as i understand, the UK is bound by WTO to charge those tariffs and other countries are too, so the sudden price shock will hit farmers, workers, people who eat food, etc. on top of that capital is taking flight already and shutting down existing factories or cancelling plans to open new ones. there are definitely more people homeless already at least in my part of town.

the theoretical good way of doing this is to agree on a deal with the EU where you have at least a gradual transition period but this is impossible because the english hate the irish but also because the tories including theresa may are a bunch of babies throwing their own shit at each other and themselves.

i say the problem is the english hating the irish because the mps claim that the reason for rejecting the brexit deal is because there is one paragraph in the 600 pages that says, basically, due to the good friday agreement the uk must stay in a type of union with the eu until some new arrangement is made. (iirc this was asked for by the uk negotiators.) brexit mps say this is uh indentured servitude and permanent castration and england shall never be slaves or something.

and so, on top of that, in the case of no-deal, the irish border would need to be enforced, but that would also violate the good friday agreement and the ira will re-arm (some already have). some tories actually claim that they won't enforce an irish border and instead will force RoI to create special customs enforcement between themselves and the EU, but they don't say it very loudly and if they did it wouldn't go very well imo.

anyway, the shitlords in parliament have been unable to vote positively on anything, or even to propose any useful options over the past two years, other than "no no deal" (on Wednesday), the most useless gong show i have ever seen, and in favour of asking the EU for a delay (on Thursday), but they haven't figured out what positively-stated goal the delay would help them accomplish, and without one the EU will not agree to it. so no deal. so far.
#291

sovnarkoman posted:

the fuck is "no deal"


theresa may keeps saying "no deal" and theatrically crossing her arms until eventually it's time to open the briefcase she randomly selected at the start of the parliamentary brexit process and finds out it contains 50p and a crude drawing of a monkey

#292
also:
- price rises will likely be even more than tariff rates due to the inability of ports to handle the extra delays
- some people claim the UK will just charge 0% tariffs on everything from everywhere to balance it out but i don't think this has been looked at more than someone drawing diagrams on a napkin
- this may lead to the utter destruction of the tories as a political party though, in canada the conservative party got crushed to nothingness after introducing NAFTA, so it's possible (though the only available alternative was the liberals so eh)
#293
i am incredibly surprised that the left case for brexit is social chauvinism, just like the left case for remain
#294

Petrol posted:

sovnarkoman posted:

the fuck is "no deal"

theresa may keeps saying "no deal" and theatrically crossing her arms until eventually it's time to open the briefcase she randomly selected at the start of the parliamentary brexit process and finds out it contains 50p and a crude drawing of a monkey



#295

drwhat posted:

if you exit with no deal you have no treaties with other countries, and you are required (afaik) to charge them WTO tariff rates because WTO Says So. you go immediately from zero tariffs on many commodities to WTO levels, which on a lot of things is 40%. as far as i understand, the UK is bound by WTO to charge those tariffs and other countries are too,



that sounds like something that will be whisked away with magic unless the Brussels-orbiting bourgeoisie thinks they can use it to shift UK policy in their favor in a very short period of time. if not then a catchphrase will be invented to explain why it used to be like that but now that's going away because of Emergencies. like since when does stuff like this bow to the rule of law when it's whitey's neck in the noose.

#296
i think the deeply engrained classism in the uk means that it doesn't matter, it's a dispute among aristocrats and 40% is something they could argue about and pay it etc, and the working classes here will just eat dog food
#297
people who say brexit will destroy the tory party are being wildly optimistic tbh
#298
how effective do you uk people think the blarite 'antisemitism' stuff about corbyn is? i mean to me it seems like its all just media and wonk grandstanding rather than anything of real substance but i dont know if real life people not on the tv actually believe it or not.
#299

lo posted:

how effective do you uk people think the blarite 'antisemitism' stuff about corbyn is? i mean to me it seems like its all just media and wonk grandstanding rather than anything of real substance but i dont know if real life people not on the tv actually believe it or not.


i think the diehard corbyn voters tune it out but it's incredible to me how consistent and long-lived its been. at one of the worst moments in the past few weeks a number of labour MPs loudly quit the party over this stuff. it seems impossible to imagine they weren't incited to do so.

it's hard to notice lately through the brexit noise, but whenever that quiets down a notch you immediately see a bunch of op-eds about how labour has to deal with its antisemitism problem. continually citing nothing or one dissident blairite or something. (though one day on a disused corner of some bbc page i did see something like "tories have to deal with their anti-islamism problem", once)

i can't really tell as a still-outsider how much the media themselves believe it. tory rags will say anything. i guess (?) everyday UKers who grew up here are used to insane levels of bias in the media so maybe it has a smaller effect here, but i really get the feeling (not just because of this) that the establishment will do almost anything to keep corbyn out. fuck up brexit, fuck up parliament, bribe, steal, cheat, invent terrible shit in the news, whatever needs to be done. ultimately that is probably one of the biggest reasons brexit is this fucked up, tbh. if not for the threat of Literal British Stalin, the tories probably would have gotten rid of May and possibly gone along with an election even imo

#300
but of course this is all bourgeois garbage and fuck the whole thing.
#301

cars posted:

that sounds like something that will be whisked away with magic unless the Brussels-orbiting bourgeoisie thinks they can use it to shift UK policy in their favor in a very short period of time. if not then a catchphrase will be invented to explain why it used to be like that but now that's going away because of Emergencies. like since when does stuff like this bow to the rule of law when it's whitey's neck in the noose.


the idea that the UK will bow to the WTO sounds just slightly less foolish than the idea that the US would bow to the ICC

#302
Wasn't there some big israel scandal in the UK just a few years ago? Hmm maybe this is what I was remembering:

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/jewish-labour-movement-worked-israeli-embassy-spy posted:

“We work with Shai, we know him very well,” the group’s director Ella Rose admitted to an undercover reporter in 2016, a transcript of the conversation shows.

Shai Masot was the Israeli embassy spy forced out of the UK after an undercover Al Jazeera investigation last year exposed him plotting to “take down” a senior UK government minister.

In a transcript of a conversation Rose had with an Al Jazeera reporter who was using the pseudonym “Robin,” Rose admits to working closely with Masot both before and after she was appointed executive director of the Jewish Labour Movement.


lol they straight up caught israel pledging to take down pro-palestinian pols and now just a little over a year later they're taking down all the pro palestinian pols. i guess they decided it's fine if they can use it to run out corbyn

Edited by ilmdge ()

#303
#304

ilmdge posted:



ah, wrapped up in a tidy package then

#305
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/may-s-brexit-withdrawal-deal-rejected-a-3rd-time-in-parliament-1.5041410

#306
#307
i love that she dangled the promise of her resignation as a sweetener the third time and they were like "that's weird and honestly a little tempting but lol no"
#308

Petrol posted:

i love that she dangled the promise of her resignation as a sweetener the third time and they were like "that's weird and honestly a little tempting but lol no"



Funniest part is that had her deal passed she would’ve resigned, but now that it failed for the third time she will remain in office.

#309
it would be easy to simply point and laugh at may but it's much more satisfying to point and laugh at the entire british parliament for being so utterly broken
#310

Petrol posted:

it would be easy to simply point and laugh at may but it's much more satisfying to point and laugh at the entire british parliament for being so utterly broken


you know lately its been in vogue to poke at how absurdly stupid the american system is, and while that's totally fair, i think contemporary events in britain, australia, and canada, should remind us once again that the problem isn't the particular flavours and forms of capitalist liberal democracy, but the real actual content of all capitalist "democracy" itself

#311

Petrol posted:

it would be easy to simply point and laugh at may but it's much more satisfying to point and laugh at the entire british parliament for being so utterly broken



to be honest i think this whole spectre of "crisis" is something of a concoction in the face of parliament actually being vaguely democratic for once. these votes leading to impasse is representative of where the country is over brexit, and if it forces an election then so much the better.

it's same as various "crises" for the labour party because of its membership no longer being such a neutered passive door-knocking body.

#312
i've been wondering that sometimes. maybe all the no deal scary stories are exaggeration too, etc. but i find anyone anywhere saying it might be fine, except rees-mogg
#313
is it all... coming together?


#314
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jack-renshaw-paedophile-trial-neo-nazi-national-action-rosie-cooper-court-a8850936.html
#315
happy anniversary mates

#316


#317

shriekingviolet posted:

Petrol posted:

it would be easy to simply point and laugh at may but it's much more satisfying to point and laugh at the entire british parliament for being so utterly broken

you know lately its been in vogue to poke at how absurdly stupid the american system is, and while that's totally fair, i think contemporary events in britain, australia, and canada, should remind us once again that the problem isn't the particular flavours and forms of capitalist liberal democracy, but the real actual content of all capitalist "democracy" itself


I haven't quite got it figured out but I think it's an interesting series of events to develop in the core imperialist countries. Capital is not threatened, the working class has been defeated and hasn't recovered from the last crash anyways so there's no confidence there, and the only anti-imperialist states still out there are too isolated and weak to mount any kind of challenge. So what objective reason is there as far as the top bourg in Brussels, the City and on Wall Street are concerned to continue paying out rents to all the angry white yokels?

There ain't one. So this "right-wing populism" is really a compulsive freakout attempt to lock everything down "before it's too late." In other words, there's a goose and the golden eggs are the rents paid out to the yokels maintaining their dominant, superstructural position in the imperial core, but the goose is laying fewer golden eggs these days so the urge is to strangle the goose to death and ration what's left of the eggs. The goose is the base (also imperialism).

Edited by trakfactri ()

#318
they'll keep delaying it because a state of perpetually escalating tension with no resolving moment of catharsis suits everyone in london and brussels just fine tbh, the tories have more or less abdicated all responsibility for governing because brexit is a useful sucking void of nothing that channels popular energy away from fighting brutal mechanisms of austerity, the tories don't even grasp brexits utility for this consciously its more like an instinctive reptilian thing
#319

trakfactri posted:

shriekingviolet posted:

Petrol posted:

it would be easy to simply point and laugh at may but it's much more satisfying to point and laugh at the entire british parliament for being so utterly broken

you know lately its been in vogue to poke at how absurdly stupid the american system is, and while that's totally fair, i think contemporary events in britain, australia, and canada, should remind us once again that the problem isn't the particular flavours and forms of capitalist liberal democracy, but the real actual content of all capitalist "democracy" itself

I haven't quite got it figured out but I think it's an interesting series of events to develop in the core imperialist countries. Capital is not threatened, the working class has been defeated and hasn't recovered from the last crash anyways so there's no confidence there, and the only anti-imperialist states still out there are too isolated and weak to mount any kind of challenge. So what objective reason is there as far as the top bourg in Brussels, the City and on Wall Street are concerned to continue paying out rents to all the angry white yokels?

There ain't one. So this "right-wing populism" is really a compulsive freakout attempt to lock everything down "before it's too late." In other words, there's a goose and the golden eggs are the rents paid out to the yokels maintaining their dominant, superstructural position in the imperial core, but the goose is laying fewer golden eggs these days so the urge is to strangle the goose to death and ration what's left of the eggs. The goose is the base (also imperialism).



i can imagine some reasons like the need to have a stable(ish) domestic base, to have a pool for recruiting einsatzgruppen when need be and to have some sort of consumer base still around but not sure if these reasons are accurate or enough to justify such a sacrifice in the form of white-rent

#320

ghostpinballer posted:

a state of perpetually escalating tension with no resolving moment of catharsis


hmm it seems like constant revolutionizing of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones