I wasn't suggesting DSA was Trotskyist, just suggesting ISO is small.

The main Trotskyist faction in France was grouped around the Communist Revolutionary League (LCR) which was mostly Mandelite. Cliffites don't really exist in France as a significant tendency. The presidential candidate in 2007 for the LCR (Besancenot) got 1.5 million votes. They ended up trying a refoundation project called the New Anticapitalist Party. There are also other notable tendencies which can get 1-2% of the national vote and are 'semi-clandestine' (such as "Worker's Struggle") and actually organize in expectation of a revolution but are seen as strange by most people outside of them. These groups don't try to influence the Socialist Party, which they see as a fraud. Some (significant) splinter groups do try to influence the Communist Party or join the Left Front (which won about 10% last presidential election I think). I think "state capitalist" theories in France are much more commonly associated with Maoism.

In Latin America, it is more diverse but Cliffites aren't a significant tendency anywhere, the less orthodox Trotskyists tended to be supporters of guerrilla war instead. (Well, the mainline Trotskyists turned to guerrilla war but gave up on it, with these groups sticking to it.) The Trotskyists in countries like Brazil tend to be more divided by orientation to "pink tide" parties. Like there are groups that operate in PT, groups that help lead or support PSOL, etc. The most interesting work being done by these groups, in my mind, is the nitty-gritty neighborhood and workplace organizing. Unfortunately sometimes this becomes formulaic and dogmatic, like shouting at people to demand a worker's state, but a lot of the time it is like... oh the government reclaimed a factory, let's get a job there and help people build a democratic workplace, then spread that demand. In Venezuela there is an incredible ferment of these radical Chavista groups. A poster on here once noted that these groups will spend large amounts of time in open conflict with PSUV politicians and the police but then generally turn out for the PSUV in election campaigns to "continue the process". I don't think all or even many of these groups identify as Trotskyist but that is where Trotskyists tend to focus their energy, which I think is a good thing. In my opinion, that sort of ferment all jumbled up between different types of critical/dissident communists is where the future is anyway.
assad is using barrel bombs on the rebels and thats why we need to intervene, with the good, humanitarian type of bomb
If you look at a lot of those more orthodox groups like getfiscal mentioned, when it comes to imperialism, their commentary basically runs along the lines of "imperialism is bad, the only solution is Trotskyist popular committees"

Their program for action in cases like Libya consists of campaigning to embargo Libyan goods and campaigning for asset freezes.
[account deactivated]
Mandel was sort of a master-theorist type so he wrote a large amount of stuff and some of it is good. I haven't read much of it. The best things I've read are simple histories of Marx's own work and method. His partisan defences of Trotsky tend to be very formulaic but were influential in solidifying a lot of myths on the 'democratic left' for better or worse. His economic work is what he is most famous for, which is what they mean by 'Luxemburgist', because he argued that capitalism was an interconnected world system that expands in long waves, which was related to the wider discussions about business cycles. I have no way of understanding that yet.

He also wrote books that were sort of contrarian takes on major historical events, like a history of the second world war which said it was a number of semi-autonomous wars, most of them inter-imperialist, the only justifiable one being the defence of the Soviet Union.

getfiscal posted:

That was informative. Thank you, Donald-kun. Obviously, as a true Marxist-Leninist, I disagree with your remarks about the future of communism, but there is still time for you to come round before you face the gulag.

Also, to others: someone wrote an article about Ernst Thaelmann in Jacobin recently and it essentially recited every Trotskyist point of faith about German communism to the point that it extended into innuendo which had no real place in even a partisan article and McCaine and other people made fun of it and I think the Jacobin editors got mad in real life and accused everyone of being insane Stalinists. So I restate our offer: Anyone who Jacobin picks to debate Grover Furr in Yankee Stadium on September 11th.
Mandel's Late Capitalism is pretty good and I also think his criticism of 'state capitalism' is good. Though I am biased because I came to his work through Fredric Jameson rather than some search for the anti-Stalin truth so I can toss out the worst aspects of his trotism. Not sure why you would want to read a bunch of trot polemics which were outdated when they were written.
I intend to read everything ever written. The English language ones alone are taking forever.
damn lol


An incident that occurred in February of this year may serve as an example of what lies ahead. Engaged in heavy clashes with rebel forces near the town of Harbinafsah, militia leader Ahmed Ismail called on his fellow warlord in the neighboring town of Baarin for desperately needed reinforcements. Fadi Qaribish, head of the Baarins armed men, rudely refused the request. The following day, feeling betrayed and with a local ceasefire having taken effect, Ismail turned his guns against Qaribish. Before long, he was joined by detachments from Hama’s air force intelligence, looking to support their preferred client and squash the insubordinate militant. But Qaribish successfully fought off the combined attack and subsequently established his own checkpoints along the roads in the area, cutting into Ismail’s smuggling routes to the rebel pocket. The regime has not dared bother Baarin since.


Edited by Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia ()

sigh i mean not like anyone here needs this link http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p25s02-cogn.html
[account deactivated]
"Their lives ended before they had really begun."

No harm, no foul.

[account deactivated]
[account deactivated]
[account deactivated]
[account deactivated]


HenryKrinkle posted:

Hell YEah babey, the white hats!

i wonder if they could use any highly skilled tradespersyns to safely and efficiently install electrical systems at any point after all this is over.
the deal between the US and Russia seems bigger than previous ones, also notable because theyre actually calling out al nusra despite the rebranding
"Well we couldnt find any al-nusra since they changed the name," America said, "and we're not paying the restocking fee on all these fucking bombs..."

The "everyone gets a puppy" orphanage creeps into the pilot's view at the edge of the horizon.
new rebel coalition, who th
thank you lion assad for standing up to the imperialism of warmonger putin

Hmm, I hope Russia nukes the shit out of Syria, and then me

Panopticon posted:

thank you lion assad for standing up to the imperialism of warmonger putin

the tone of that ecfr paper is pretty ridiculous, "those darn syrians are just so attached to a centralized state that provides services, a stable environment, and has defended the society from foreign attack, why wont they just let neoliberal regionalism do its thing"


Panopticon posted:

thank you lion assad for standing up to the imperialism of warmonger putin


"I would like to thank {...} Jeremy Shapiro {...} whose
input and advice have been invaluable in the course of my
work on this paper"

yes that is Jeremy Shapiro "senior fellow in the Project on International Order and Strategy and the Center on the United States and Europe at Brookings Institute"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-syria-idUSKCN11J0EY fuck off i srael
ahhh fuck
It's not even their own ceasefire, but they just can't help themselves
haha is this real

i guess it is

It's all part of teh plan mes amis. Wheels within wheels....