#1161

cars posted:

the tension of these "friends" glistening thews foreshadows the intra-imperialist conflict to come, a lie more honest than truth itself.


cars stop i can only get so hrnotyy ;_;

#1162

cars posted:

yes, also Exorcist III is good even with the stupid tacked-on exorcist parts they forced Blatty to add, Fangoria nerds only ever remember the scene with the nurse's station but almost every other scene in that movie is as good or better


I watched this and liked it. But what do you mean by tacked on? The movie is called "Exorcist 3" so what was there going to be instead of exorcism? You're not making any sense!

#1163
start wreck discoball just ended season one and all the nerds are mad kirk's enterprise doesn't look like it's made of cardboard anymore
#1164

swampman posted:

cars posted:

yes, also Exorcist III is good even with the stupid tacked-on exorcist parts they forced Blatty to add, Fangoria nerds only ever remember the scene with the nurse's station but almost every other scene in that movie is as good or better

I watched this and liked it. But what do you mean by tacked on? The movie is called "Exorcist 3" so what was there going to be instead of exorcism? You're not making any sense!



Blatty called it "Legion" originally which works a lot better as a title. He hated Exorcist II (because it was bad) and didn't want his new movie associated with it. The studio first demanded the movie be called "Exorcist III", then later demanded that Blatty shoot and insert the scenes concerning the exorcism and the priest who performs it.

All of that added stuff draws attention away from a couple of key parts of the story, about how the multiplicity vs. the unity of evil doesn't change its presence in the world and how its ultimate presence remains ambiguous because of that paradox, unless someone risks joining "the dance" as both victim and perpetrator. Having the Devil show up in an extraneous scene is distracting and unnecessary; the Gemini Killer is both the Devil's servant and the Devil. The character refers to himself as both "I" and "we", but also tells Kinderman, concerning "The Master", "There is only one." Trying to wedge the exorcism scene into that concept detracts from it by differentiating Venamun and his Master, while most of the rest of the movie (including Dourif's amazing performance) emphasizes how neither Kinderman not the audience can draw that distinction with certainty, nor can Kinderman even prove the Devil's hand in the world to others.

#1165
But on the other h... if i'm watching a movie, i do want to see the devil get fucked up with thousands of points of holy damage. And also I don't think they ever say or imply "Oh this is no longer the gemini it's the Devil Now". Unless some of the other crazy shit like the woman crawling on ceiling was also forced in alongside the exorcism plot.

And I just gotta say it. Interesting to me that Black Panther is huge in the USA right now, while the Exorcist III is not. Very interesting.
#1166
One premise of the exorcist movies is that the Devil is from Hatra, Iraq
#1167
that is just one of the may things the exorcist series gets correct
#1168
and after his last tour he was discharged from the marines and went down to georgia. this is well established canon.
#1169

swampman posted:

And also I don't think they ever say or imply "Oh this is no longer the gemini it's the Devil Now".



they do though, in that scene possessed Karras says Have you come to save God's servant? Well, I must save mine. My son, the Gemini. He has work to do. which sets up this tiered conflict between Morning and the Devil over and above Kinderman and Gemini, and the movie would have been better off without it rather than the studio forcing Blatty back into reshoots post-production where it was impossible for him to even make Morning into a character involved in the movie's story.

Like if they wanted to keep sarcastic reviews and confused audiences from asking "where's the exorcism" the answer to that is probably not to prompt those people to orient their thinking toward how ineffective and boring the short exorcism scene was in this movie vs. "The Exorcist", and if you read the bad end of the polarized contemporary reviews of the movie that's exactly what happened

#1170
they also iirc use a mega close up of these big dumb brightly-colored eyes in that one scene on top of all the stunt gore. I guess the studio figured they needed that shot so half the audience would lean over to the other half and say, "That's Pazuzu from the first one. That's the devil this time and not the murderer guy" and it looks like gosh darn Where The Wild Things Are!!
#1171

cars posted:

they do though, in that scene possessed Karras says Have you come to save God's servant? Well, I must save mine. My son, the Gemini. He has work to do. which sets up this tiered conflict between Morning and the Devil over and above Kinderman and Gemini,


It's cool dude. The Holy Trinity can be really confusing.

#1172
I like the proposed ending that follows the book where the Gemini was gonna be wrested back down to Hell because the object of his hatred happened to die, which appeals to me more because the crux of the exorcism is always this circus trick where Satan who spends eternity planning human misery and who can do telekinesis and regenerate brains forgets to check to make sure the priest is really dead and put all their crucifixes down the toilet, I don't think it's right that Kinderman gets the better of the Devil, that's just how I fuckin feel.
#1173
yeah imo it's even weirder because suddenly Gemini is Jesus except the son of Satan? when all the "my father" stuff in the rest of the movie issues from the point of view of Gemini/Legion/the Devil looking up to God, filtered through Venamun being obsessed in life with shaming his evangelist father and that's why he's compelled to kill people with a foreshadowing initial. Even the daddy issues thing is one of the weaker angles to Gemini as a serial killer, and Blatty is smart enough not to dwell on it too much after the "K" part is set up as the thriller rule of the movie. But when Gemini says "I must go on killing daddy. I must shame him" he's not talking about the Devil obviously.

It almost seems like Blatty wanted to show contempt for the exorcism scene compared to how the rest of the movie was written, because that's the one little speech in the movie where, if you removed it from the context of what you see on the screen and only told people it was from a movie called "Exorcist III", they could probably guess correctly who's saying it. It's one step up from "Now I, the Devil, have arrived for the exorcism part", while most of the rest of the movie's dialogue would be impossible to parse without seeing it delivered, that or detailed description of what's happening on the screen.
#1174

swampman posted:

I like the proposed ending that follows the book where the Gemini was gonna be wrested back down to Hell because the object of his hatred happened to die, which appeals to me more because the crux of the exorcism is always this circus trick where Satan who spends eternity planning human misery and who can do telekinesis and regenerate brains forgets to check to make sure the priest is really dead and put all their crucifixes down the toilet, I don't think it's right that Kinderman gets the better of the Devil, that's just how I fuckin feel.



I don't think Kinderman does win necessarily. I think that's left ambiguous, with the last line of the movie being as ambivalent as the rest of its portrayals of Kinderman's experience of otherworldly good (minus the tacked-on crappy exorcism scene, funny how that keeps happening). It's never made completely clear that Karras's death is the will of God simply because it's a way to put an immediate stop to one single aspect of the Devil's influence in a world full of them, nor that either Kinderman or Karras necessarily do the right thing by working together to kill Karras at the point they do, which is a pretty thorny question in context of the particular religion used as context for the movie.

Like... from what the nurse overhears, Karras begs God to "save" God's "servant", and follows it up with "Kill it", which doesn't exactly sound like Karras is placing the value on the life of that servant that his faith would demand he do even in the valley of the shadow of death. Karras fears evil, which is why he's tormented by witnessing himself perform acts of evil. Karras wants to die, and in the end, Kinderman wants to kill him, and they're both convinced that means they "won", but it doesn't mean they did. There could have been another way, and Kinderman's not at all motivated to help Karras die because of some sort of divine moral calculus about saving God's children in the future. Kinderman cares about his family more than God's, which the movie rightly presents as only natural, but not necessarily as Godly or good.

Whether Kinderman and Karras "win" is an open question the movie hints at repeatedly earlier on, like in the scene describing the carp swimming up and down in the bathtub and the desire to simply kill it rather than look at it one more time because you know what's happening to it and what's going to happen to it and that you're going to be a part of it. In the movie's idea of things, the point of that scene isn't that it's God's will to kill the carp just because you're grossed out watching it continue to exist in that way. Disgust is not a holy reason to kill in the movie, and Kinderman precedes what he does with an anti-profession of faith, like he's reciting the liturgy of his own personal Black Mass: he professes belief only in disgust and that which causes disgust, and ultimately in the Worm at its root. It's a great scene for George C. Scott (who loved Blatty's vision for the movie dearly and championed it for the rest of his life, for whatever that tells anyone given Scott's own life) and it's one of the more interesting ways to present the idea that belief in the Devil does not equal faith in God.

That's what I mean about joining "the dance" as both victim and perpetrator: we don't know that Kinderman has to kill Karras to beat the Devil, if that's even possible in the world presented by the story. We know Kinderman "has" to kill Karras because of Kinderman's own self-interest, because Kinderman cannot take what's happening to Kinderman anymore, because the Gemini told Kinderman that Kinderman is part of the dance now, and simply by Kinderman contributing his surname to the family he loves, they're all part of the dance too... Gemini got to Kinderman.

So whether or not Karras and Kinderman "won" as they believe at the end, or whether the Gemini pressured Kinderman and Karras to damn their own souls through joint commission of a mortal sin which they wrongly believe to be a blessed act of God's mercy... the answer to that is not clear at all when the movie wraps up. If Karras was wrong about the whole thing before he encountered Kinderman again as Patient X, heck, if he was wrong about it when he tried to kill himself in "The Exorcist", which is an open question for the exact same reasons in the exact same context, then Karras is still wrong about it at the end of this movie, and that means he's going to Hell and now, he's probably dragged Kinderman down to Hell with him.

Edited by cars ()

#1175
this really heavy-handed propaganda made by a Polish NGO using the COD engine or something

#1176
Black Panther was hot garbage as expected, a shallow caricature of black liberation defeated by a bourgeois nationalist black elite with the help of a CIA agent, with the heroes resolve in the end being 'more aid to ghettos and also sharing new technologies with oppressor governments instead of channeling them to the oppressed'.
#1177
lmao i got to see this film
#1178
i feel like hollywood used it to see what it could get away with, in an environment of extremely confused US liberals. it got away with a CIA-backed afrikan monarch stabbing a pan-afrikan revolutionary. and then he buys condemned apartments in oakland for black STEM education. blackface on some george wallace shit gentrifier/slumlord shit or whatever
#1179
i think about this every time i watch the latest super hero film

Aime Cesaire posted:

First we must study how colonization works to decivilize the colonizer, to brutalize him in the true sense of the word, to degrade him, to awaken him to buried instincts, to covetousness, violence, race hatred, and moral relativism; and we must show that each time a head is cut off or an eye put out in Vietnam and in France they accept the fact, each time a little girl is raped and in France they accept the fact, each time a Madagascan is tortured and in France they accept the fact, civilization acquires another dead weight, a universal regression takes place, a gangrene sets in, a center of infection begins to spread; and that at the end of all these treaties that have been violated, all these lies that have been propagated, all these punitive expeditions that have been tolerated, all these prisoners who have been tied up and "interrogated, all these patriots who have been tortured, at the end of all the racial pride that has been encouraged, all the boastfulness that has been displayed, a poison has been instilled into the veins of Europe and, slowly but surely, the continent proceeds toward savagery.

#1180
black panther, wherein barack obama stabs malcolm x with CIA help
#1181
the comic is the far superior oeuvre, I think it's unconscionable that the movie franchise would change the original characters "Mobutu" and "Lumumba" for crass commercial reasons
#1182

Caesura109 posted:

Black Panther was hot garbage as expected, a shallow caricature of black liberation defeated by a bourgeois nationalist black elite with the help of a CIA agent, with the heroes resolve in the end being 'more aid to ghettos and also sharing new technologies with oppressor governments instead of channeling them to the oppressed'.


ahahahahaaaaaugh

#1183
#1184
It seems to me, we need more Patriots, and less Hate Riots
#1185

the comic is the far superior oeuvre



#1186
captain.... amerikkka
#1187
watched annihilation... way to somehow fuck up Stalker. end was cool tho.

A+ for inclusion of the alzabo from Sword of the Lictor. nothing even remotely alzabo-like in the southern reach trilogy. since Book of the New Sun is unfilmable, this will be its first and likely only appearance on the screen.
#1188

Caesura109 posted:

Black Panther was hot garbage as expected, a shallow caricature of black liberation defeated by a bourgeois nationalist black elite with the help of a CIA agent, with the heroes resolve in the end being 'more aid to ghettos and also sharing new technologies with oppressor governments instead of channeling them to the oppressed'.



i saw the movie and this is spot-on. the Kindly CIA Pal seemed especially out of place considering the setting has its own fictitious agencies like SHIELD to draw upon.

that said, there's a bit to temper it, too; the mentioned shallowness of the villain owes explicitly, in the text of the film, to the fact that he himself was a CIA-trained murderer, still working off their playbook. plus at this point the bar is so low in US mass culture that even introducing a discussion that makes no bones about the ubiquity, even banality, of imperialist destabilization tactics probably qualifies as a positive step.

anyway, film qua film, i'd still probably rate it as top-three material within the MCU to date

#1189
I was kinda shocked at how cynical it seemed, at one point the CIA agent is literally controlling a Wakanda drone and blowing shit up with it.
#1190
also the villian dies pretty heroically, and with a badass line. "bury me at sea, so i can join all my brothers who jumped off the ships, who'd rather die free than live as slaves".
#1191
Cloverfield Paradox: why does JK Abtams have money
#1192
http://englishrussia.com/2018/03/01/five-types-of-newest-weapons-putin-announced-today-including-laser-canons-and-more-videos/
#1193
i'm the guy who told them they could set themselves apart by making an illegible "R" for "Russia" out of the hammer and sickle instead of using ya like everyone else
#1194

swampman posted:

http://englishrussia.com/2018/03/01/five-types-of-newest-weapons-putin-announced-today-including-laser-canons-and-more-videos/


https://www.rt.com/op-ed/420325-putin-missiles-nuclear-russia/

#1195
Congratulations to the Hollywood Oscar's Academy for ending all sexism.
#1196
A fat man had a sandwich
#1197
I'm genuinely curious when the Academy Awards were turned over to comedy writers to craft a more faux-self-aware & saleable product. Like, was it in response to MTV's awards? I never noticed it happening
#1198
did you see Bana Alabed on stage at the Oscars? (wait for it...) she won Best Supporting Actress 😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭
#1199
thank god bana is fake. standing onstage staring blankly out at hollywood while common does a song about how brave you are would be much more upsetting if she was real
#1200

kornfan posted:

did you see Bana Alabed on stage at the Oscars? (wait for it...) she won Best Supporting Actress 😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭



hahah woah simmer down there who let this freak off the leash