Sometimes I feel like the left wing critics of the Israeli occupation perhaps downplay or ignore how much of an issue anti-semitic ideology is. The same leftists who are so willing to demonstrate how the legacy of slavery still has an impact on black Americans today are less sensitive when Zionists bring up the Hamas charter in a debate.
Or sometimes there's a dismissal or implied justification for their anti-semitic ideology because of their poor educational opportunities and their unique situation of being occupied by a self-identified Jewish military force that generates anti-semitic feelings.
However, it should still be as clear that anti-semitism is not justified or negligible here anymore than it is when a white American feels justified in their racism when they are mugged by a gang of black men listening to rap music.
This is the unmoving point that Israel will not budge from, and I don't think that's unreasonable of them.
1. sewers
2. 90s pop music
3. the rule of law
once they have these things, then we can start talking about anti-semitism
babyfinland posted:who cares
Israeli Jews are kinda sensitive, you might say "triggered", by "kill all the jews" rhetoric.
Obviously they are going too far and doing immoral things to the palestinian people, but perhaps, since they (the israelis) are the party in power, it's useful to try to acknowledge their frame of reference, wherein anyone using that kind of rhetoric is NOT to be taken lightly.
sometimes oppressed groups lash out and do Bad Things. however, it's not the slightest bit similar to Nazi or white supremacist anti-Semitism since it reflects real grievances from an underclass instead of scapegoating from already privileged racists. there are some reactionary Islamic militants out there who genuinely hate Jews just as they hate Muslims who don't agree w/ their extremist brand of Islam, but those guys tend to be dependent upon the CIA & GCC for their funding and thus focus more on undermining counter-hegemonic regimes rather than targeting Israel or Jews.
plus bringing up Hamas' 1988 charter is quite dumb since its leaders have openly asserted their willingness to accept a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders (an overly generous concession to Zionism imho). by contrast, look at Likud's charter.
Edited by HenryKrinkle ()
thanks
The_Boourns_Identity posted:Even if you think the claims of anti-semitism are just an excuse used by the zionists, couldn't we at least recognize that it's a useful and powerful excuse given the historical context and the supporters of palestinians should keep that in mind and try not to give the Israeli's any more ideological ammunition to justify their occupation.
cry about it
littlegreenpills posted:I literally yelled "Anti Semite!" at some pro Israel counterdemonstraters just now but unfortunately the counter counter demonstrators thought I mean them and I had to run for it oops
you tell em, L.D.
littlegreenpills posted:I literally yelled "Anti Semite!" at some pro Israel counterdemonstraters just now but unfortunately the counter counter demonstrators thought I mean them and I had to run for it oops
best not to get involved. those people have been fighting for centuries.
HenryKrinkle posted:complaining about "anti-Semitism" from occupied Palestinians and marginalized Muslims in Europe is basically the equivalent of Drudge/Breitbart fearmongering about "flash mobs" and "knock-out games," accept the former is considered acceptable by liberals.
sometimes oppressed groups lash out and do Bad Things. however, it's not the slightest bit similar to Nazi or white supremacist anti-Semitism since it reflects real grievances from an underclass and instead of scapegoating from already privileged racists. there are some reactionary Islamic militants out there who genuinely hate Jews just as they hate Muslims who don't agree w/ their extremist brand of Islam, but those guys tend to be dependent upon the CIA & GCC for their funding and thus focus more on undermining counter-hegemonic regimes rather than targeting Israel or Jews.
plus bringing up Hamas' 1988 charter is quite dumb since its leaders have has openly asserted their willingness to accept a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders (an overly generous concession to Zionism imho). by contrast, look at Likud's charter.
except unlike the fears from white americans that groups of black teens were going to punch them, which totally ran contrary to the entire historical and cultural experience of white domination, the Jewish fears of anti-semitism and extermination rhetoric is firmly rooted in a real and recent historical trauma.
Themselves posted:im always like should i make the spergy badly written stoned effort post but then the cyber-spirit of lucidity and brevity comes in
thanks
do you always submit to the cyber spirit?
getfiscal posted:well, as a christian, i accept child sacrifice in at least one special case.
Kierkegaard is that you?
if altemeyer's concept of authoritarianism is correct, perhaps we need a hawk lobby on the same side as a dove lobby on every issue, so that after being softened up by logic and empathy, the authoritarians on the other side can be brought over with screams of "death to israel"
Agnus_Dei posted:i do not support violence but i support the rights of the people of palestine and i denounce anti-semitism
Dude, bad ass.
conec posted:i rung my dad yesterday nd he asked if i`d been following news lately and i said ya sure nd he was like well what do u think of these isis people nd i was like idk theyre pretty bad i guess and hes like yeah theyre killing christians theyre real real bad and i was like yeah and taking women slaves and he changed subject and was like well where do you stand on the whole israel palestine sh`d and i was just like oh u know me i dont really have any beliefs of my own trying to back out of the conversation nd he was like well ive decided for you and you support israel and i was like ok.
hmm. okay. personally i think israel has been too hard on hamas. like, bombing schools and such. it's messed up. i respect your new opinion though.
libelous_slander posted:my favorite thing about WW2 is that Israel continues ethnic genocide despite having been victims of genocide
as i said on my podcast, on this prison planet you either fuck them or get fucked.
getfiscal posted:libelous_slander posted:my favorite thing about WW2 is that Israel continues ethnic genocide despite having been victims of genocide
as i said on my podcast, on this prison planet you either fuck them or get fucked.
this reminds of a Star Trek: Deep Space 9 episode,
The_Boourns_Identity posted:HenryKrinkle posted:complaining about "anti-Semitism" from occupied Palestinians and marginalized Muslims in Europe is basically the equivalent of Drudge/Breitbart fearmongering about "flash mobs" and "knock-out games," accept the former is considered acceptable by liberals.
sometimes oppressed groups lash out and do Bad Things. however, it's not the slightest bit similar to Nazi or white supremacist anti-Semitism since it reflects real grievances from an underclass and instead of scapegoating from already privileged racists. there are some reactionary Islamic militants out there who genuinely hate Jews just as they hate Muslims who don't agree w/ their extremist brand of Islam, but those guys tend to be dependent upon the CIA & GCC for their funding and thus focus more on undermining counter-hegemonic regimes rather than targeting Israel or Jews.
plus bringing up Hamas' 1988 charter is quite dumb since its leaders have has openly asserted their willingness to accept a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders (an overly generous concession to Zionism imho). by contrast, look at Likud's charter.except unlike the fears from white americans that groups of black teens were going to punch them, which totally ran contrary to the entire historical and cultural experience of white domination, the Jewish fears of anti-semitism and extermination rhetoric is firmly rooted in a real and recent historical trauma.
jockeying for the most authentic fear, eh? sounds ~reasonable~ and ~progressive~