#121
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its... stochastically balanced
#122
[account deactivated]
#123
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slumlord posted:

Lessons posted:

the point isn't that the game is always winnable or perfectly balanced, it's that it's a complex chaotic system and with practice people have learned to manipulate it so that they can win 5, 10, 30 times in a row, like someone looking at the equation for a lorenz system then sketching it 99% accurately by hand

this is true of most hard / complicated games though?


ugh... no, that metric doesn't even make sense for most other games. winning 30 times in a row in football or chess doesn't have the same significance. dcss is a game where +99% of games are losses, so winning 30 times in a row is like the the (apparent but not actual) equivalent of a basketball team scoring 30 times in a row without letting the opposing team make a basket, or a million-to-one shot winning the kentucky derby. and for video games, who gives a shit if you win Skyrim 30 times in row, besides maybe your psychiatrist? obviously there are parallels and common aspects with mastery in other games but if you're not going to take it on its own terms it's useless to even try and understand how.

#124
Post rating: ~
you just wrote a whole paragraph just to explaining that "game is hard" but lol

Lessons posted:

who gives a shit if you win Skyrim 30 times in row



who gives a shit if you win crawl 30 times in a row?

#125
[account deactivated]
#126
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roseweird posted:

other skyrim nerds don't care if you beat skyrim 30 times in a row



speaking with the authority of experience ahahahahha Yes

#127
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i haven't beaten crawl 30 times in a row, in face no one has, the record is 22 games. the best i've done is 4.
#128
Kurdt
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delete all posts itt other than gjoeys, then lock & goldmine
#129
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roseweird posted:

i love crawl but i can't believe there is a 4-page thread on crawl on a marxist forum, that is pretty sad yall



lol this forum isnt marxist

#130
Post rating: +
thsi forum is dwarf fortress itself what with all the doors and snake pits and mushroom farms and rooms full of rotting freaks and bad gateways
#131
[account deactivated]
#132
mt.real
Post rating: +
crawl is one of the things that helped me realize the only thing i find interesting about video games is the huge chaotically complex system aspect and (a) i'm not even very good at them, i just like to play with them and (b) there are only like 5-10 games that fit that description, period

so now i can be content knowing i don't really like video games, i just like insane weird complexity, and i don't really bother with video games anymore. but i still want dwarf fortress to achieve sentience
#133
[account deactivated]
#134
[account deactivated]
#135
[account deactivated]
#136
corey "of "fail aids" fame"
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can i pplay this on my iphone. i like angry birds
#137
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im playing mtg:shandalar because i'm cool and featured on the cover of this month's men's journal, and people like me
#138
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drwhat posted:

crawl is one of the things that helped me realize the only thing i find interesting about video games is the huge chaotically complex system aspect and (a) i'm not even very good at them, i just like to play with them and (b) there are only like 5-10 games that fit that description, period

so now i can be content knowing i don't really like video games, i just like insane weird complexity, and i don't really bother with video games anymore. but i still want dwarf fortress to achieve sentience


what are the other 4-9

#139
[account deactivated]
#140
mt.real
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tpaine posted:

play vagrant story dr. what


i did, i remember it being really cool at the time. but that time was a while ago

#141
UNUSUALY COOL
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play go, where kimonos, cut yourself and ball
#142
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play wargame. it's Really Good & plane expansion just came out.

10 v 10 multiplayer fulda gap no rush gg no re kthx



Edited by prikryl ()

#143
[account deactivated]
#144
mt.real
Post rating: ~

slumlord posted:

what are the other 4-9



well i guess all these things have to come down to there being a large complex system that, over time, you can get good enough at seeing all the edge cases and possibilities that you're able to manage it better and better and better each time without actually ever knowing the real math involved (if it's even surfaced/knowable)

so for example civilization 4 + fall from heaven 2 mod, it's big, it's unwieldy, it's complex, it's kind of broken, but i like it
same with alpha centauri
dwarf fortress obviously (especially when you set down on a terrifying glacier)
air traffic control simulators (but the ones that are realistic enough are also insane to learn, as you might expect)
racing simulators, imo, are the same sort of thing on a smaller scale. there are lots of small factors to worry about which add up, you almost always know when/why you fucked up, and you get better and better with many many repetitions.despite having largely renounced video games i will play the shit out of the next forza probably

#145
[account deactivated]
#146
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lol ffh2.
#147
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I play exclusively mapgames and thief these days. And I might cut out the mapgames because I run out of 'huh that was neat' moments really fast with each new expansion. Its kind of weird how unpatched or un-expanded paradox games are basically unplayable because of how annoying and shallow they are. Which I realize is part of their business plan, but compare that to company of heroes which was near perfect with only two sides and actually got slightly worse with the Brit expansion.
#148
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#149
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this:

#150
[account deactivated]
#151
mt.real
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roseweird posted:

drwhat i read all that sad nerd stuff you wrote up there and



was really expecting that to end with "now you're gonna get what's coming to you"

#152
Post rating: +

drwhat posted:

crawl is one of the things that helped me realize the only thing i find interesting about video games is the huge chaotically complex system aspect and (a) i'm not even very good at them, i just like to play with them and (b) there are only like 5-10 games that fit that description, period

so now i can be content knowing i don't really like video games, i just like insane weird complexity, and i don't really bother with video games anymore. but i still want dwarf fortress to achieve sentience



#153
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i love complex chaotic systems/simulations and as a game designer i want to make them, but instead i'm making nondigital games where you knock stuff over. which gets the chaos without all the programming.
#154
[account deactivated]
#155
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corey posted:

can i pplay this on my iphone. i like angry birds


i think there actually is an android app lol

#156
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NoFreeWill posted:

i love complex chaotic systems/simulations and as a game designer i want to make them, but instead i'm making nondigital games where you knock stuff over. which gets the chaos without all the programming.

oh you're that guy lol.

#157
political car tune
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bideogames!
#158
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NoFreeWill posted:

i love complex chaotic systems/simulations and as a game designer i want to make them, but instead i'm making nondigital games where you knock stuff over. which gets the chaos without all the programming.

you mean bowling

#159
political car tune
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#160
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I like stupid realistic MILSIMs and Mapgames and Moba and if I can ruin other people's fun on top of not having any im in gamer heaven