cyclonopedia & protracted people's war


cyclonopedia & protracted people's war
while following this book, or the conversation so far, a question may be beginning to appear in your darling heads - "well, blinkandwheeze, this is all very well and good. but how, if at all, does this pertain to the immortal science and shining path of marxism-leninism-mao tse tung thought?"

good and important question, comrades! but not an easy one to answer. i'll be circling it, i'm not very smart, so it will be unloading junk that i store in my brain. consider this a supplement to my previous post, if that was a how, this is a who, or maybe even a why. first, peter hallward marxplaining mister alain badiou:

The distinction of subject and object is thus nearly as absolute in Badiou's early work as in his later. In the early work, this distinction obtains above all in the (still dialectical) movement from the working class (as object) to the proletariat (as subject): the former is a function of "structural" relations and rivalries of place; the latter is the agent of unending "historical" displacement and struggle. Insofar as they are conditioned by their well-defined social and economic place, the working class are the mere object of history, not its subject or motor. As a class in the ordinary sociological sense, the workers lack any political "consistency"; they are confined within the specific "algebra" of place, within the inert isolation of the "object". As a unionized class the workers become capable of action, but of action confined to the cautious, subservient pursuit of an equilibrium within the existing structural arrangement of places. The workers become subject only when, guided by the party, they explode this arrangement. The subjective, or historical, "topology" of partisan antagonism explodes the static algebra of class. "In the proletariat, the working class has disappeared," writes Badiou. "Realized as vanishing cause, it consists in the party, whose existence has no other purpose than to suppress that which enabled this causality". Whereas every object stays in its place, every subject violates its place, "inasmuch as its essential virtue is to be disoriented. Subjectivation operates in the element of force whereby place ... finds itself altered". Before they erupt as masses, workers are classed as objects; subjectivation operates is then what purges class of its structural inertia. Mao's proletariat, the singular subject of history, "exists in purifying itself ". The proletariat is not that class which seeks an improvement of its place and, still less, that aims to usurp the place of the bourgeoisie; it is that force beyond class whose coming into existence destroys the very concept of place in general. The proletariat is the unique historical subject that overcomes and destroys its objective basis.


additionally, i keep thinking back to nick land's grotesquely reductive, violent, comic yet still suggestive thesis that islam is to negarestani what marxism is to bataille. but really, what is marxism to bataille? let's look at a slight abnormality, our friend writing in a very overtly political context, his popular front in the street -

We ask all those who, along with us, mean to pursue an action parallel to the one we see open before us how they wish to see the dictatorship of the working masses, how, first of all, they hope to realize the transformation of the defensive Popular Front into a Popular Front of combat.
As for us, we want to pose the question in a precise way. It seems to me personally that the only way to pose the question is the following: it is not really a question of knowing first of all what must be done, but what result must be envisioned. We know that the question of the takeover of power is now being posed. We know that, in all likelihood, the democratic regime, which struggles amidst mortal contradictions, cannot be saved.
The succession is open. We have many reasons to think that the Croix de Feu provide no response to the necessities resulting from the current situation- neither in their social content, the tenor of their program, nor in the personality of their chief. Their effective value seems to us in this respect to be situated far below that of the Italian Fascists or the German National Socialists.
The Popular Front in its present form is not, nor does it present itself, as an organized force within sight of taking power. It must thus be transformed, according to the plan of the socialist revolutionary Left, into a Popular Front of combat.
As for us, we say that this presupposes a renewal of political forms, a renewal possible in the present circumstances, when it seems that all revolutionary forces are called upon to fuse in an incandescent crucible. We are assured that insurrection is impossible for our adversaries. We believe that of the two hostile forces that will engage in the struggle for power, the fascists and the people, the force that gets the upper hand will be the one that shows itself most capable of dominating events and imposing an implacable power on its adversaries. What we demand is a coherent, disciplined organization, its entire will straining with enthusiasm toward popular power; this is the sense of responsibility that must devolve on those who tomorrow must be the masters, who must subordinate the system of production to human interests, who must impose silence, in their own country and at the same time throughout the world, on the nationalists' criminal and puerile passions.


the discipline, against puerile passions, becomes a foundation of a subjectivation towards negativity, the selfdestructive subject of an early badiou's mao. a negativity so often rejected in favor of the philosophy of life, life worship, whether in bataille himself, or bankrupt humanism, grossly romantic situationism, the deleuze-guattari virus, the multitude of negri & hardt. a negativity benjamin noys nobly, but desperately, attempts to reclaim - take a moment to read his poverty of vitalism. but in particular, look at a quotation from antonia birnbaum, a dismissal of what is essential in marx, this understanding of the revolutionary subject: 'the proletarian is nothing; it is this nothing contracted into the fury of negation'.

but how does this work? how does the living object, the working class, contract itself completely into a force of negation? how does this, escaping from the trap of vitalism, occur without, as noys draws attention to, an adolescent nihilism, a negation of 'reproductive futurism'? (noys also dismisses voluntary suicide, but isn't this what we expect of our revolutionary subject, the vanishing proletariat?)

so, let's look at cyclonopedia:

The inability to remember is usually associated with the paralytic symptoms of memory holes; in this case, the subject is not able to access the memory. If memory holes cause such accessibility problems for the subject, it is because they have been specifically designed for being accessed from the other side. In this sense, memory holes are accessible not for the subject and its integrated self but for that which is exterior to the subject and has no self (no one). If remembering is unrealistic and futile in terms of memory holes, then inversely memory holes are gates and access points; they conduct remembering and other modes of access towards a memory which belongs to the outside.

If memory holes are channels for trafficking data an retrieval from the other side, then each human or subjective attempt to recall involves an invocation of, or a stepping into the memories of, an outsider. Memory gaps, with their Space-Time lapses, function as a ( )hole complex through which nether entities seep through, rush toward our world; memory gaps are the instruments of their homecoming.


when the part-of-no-part reduces itself to nothingness, negarestani's no one, every event can be realized as an attack on bourgeois thought narratives, burrowing holes in bourgeois psychic domination. the negative event, the bourgeois memory hole, a zone of emergence.

back to bataille -

After February 16.
500,000 workers, defied by little cockroaches, invaded the streets and caused an immense uproar.
Comrades, who has the right to lay down the law?
This ALL-POWERFUL multitude, thus HUMAN OCEAN
Only this ocean of men in revolt can save the world from the nightmare of
impotence and carnage in which it sinks!


like a lovecraftian mass heralding the return of the Old Ones, a total sacrifice, a reduction to nothingness.

finally, cyclonopedia again:

They excavate tunnels in earth and lay their eggs within its pores; the larvae burrow through the earth's skin, migrating in the connective tissues, crust and strata, feeding on necrotic solids and surfaces. Burrowing sounds may be heard within the earth. Once they have finished infesting the earth's solid part, the larvae will cut breathing holes and press their headless tails against the surface for air. The larvae will continue to grow while boring out spinal cavities for the earth's body which will never be filled. As the larvae grow, they will enlarge the holes and come out of the ground.


maybe one day we will press our headless tails to the surface for air, maybe one day we can live, but for now, grab your miners hats with lights on them, so you can see in the dark, you're going digging

STOP WORSHIPING LIFE

Discussion of cyclonopedia & protracted people's war on tHE r H i z z o n E:

#1
oops double post!! but let me take this opportunity to say read this book with me please. Good Luck Iran.

Edited by blinkandwheeze ()

#2
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#3
wow! thats such a cool story!! thank you for sharing!!! four dimensions!!!

plz let this thread be designated middle east spacechat thank you, or else it may whither and die, with its blood on yuor hands
#4
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#5
[account deactivated]
#6
discipline we should get tea next time im in london
#7
[account deactivated]
#8
anyone know where i can get hollow land? aaarg one is out
#9

Prospero posted:
anyone know where i can get hollow land? aaarg one is out


here you go friend!!!

#10
thank youuuuu
#11

FrancoNero posted:
films like The Conversation



oh man i love that movie. so much hinging on the subtle inflection of a single word

i think a lot of the Lovecraft shit youre talking about relies on the idea that "reality isnt real", a fundamental truth which sits like a pea under mattress of the human mind and has been the genesis of creation for everything ranging from religion, to conspiracy theories, to quantum theory. Its something every human being instinctively knows to a certain degree, but most simply cant face or acknowledge head on. Its Lovecraft's treatment of all of human existence and civilization as nothing more than a thin scab over a giant unseen festering wound

#12
but how come nobody imposes over the fake reality a super-pleasant one? how come its always these alexjonesian "the air is poisoned, the conspiracy gods in mount olympus of washington are raping you in the spirit world" etc instead of "the bureau of diana is conspiring to make you laugh" and shit like that?

well i guess there are hippies that believe in fairies and benevolent aliens or some shit...
#13
because the inauthenticity of temporal existence is miserable and explanations for it must reflect that central fact
#14

discipline posted:
also worth noting the israelis also occupy palestinian electromagnetic frequencies, for god's sake



ive heard rumors the Wall contains a hidden Faraday cage to secretly trap the souls of recently murdered Palestinians during their first tastes of freedom

#15

Spoiler!

Edited by shennong ()

#16

Prospero posted:
but how come nobody imposes over the fake reality a super-pleasant one? how come its always these alexjonesian "the air is poisoned, the conspiracy gods in mount olympus of washington are raping you in the spirit world" etc instead of "the bureau of diana is conspiring to make you laugh" and shit like that?

well i guess there are hippies that believe in fairies and benevolent aliens or some shit...



the core reality would be so utterly removed from any orientatable human context that it would likely be infinitely more horrifying than whatever juvenile version of living hell that most of these rubes dream up for themselves. although the processes of the human mind would also necessarily change with the composition of the phenomenological strata they occupy, so things probably only seem so scary from across the fence

#17

Spoiler!

Edited by shennong ()

#18

Superabound posted:
i think a lot of the Lovecraft shit youre talking about relies on the idea that "reality isnt real", a fundamental truth which sits like a pea under mattress of the human mind and has been the genesis of creation for everything ranging from religion, to conspiracy theories, to quantum theory. Its something every human being instinctively knows to a certain degree, but most simply cant face or acknowledge head on. Its Lovecraft's treatment of all of human existence and civilization as nothing more than a thin scab over a giant unseen festering wound


this, i do not agree with. in lovecraft - negarestani in particular, too - i would say it is a more a case of "reality is realer than you could ever even imagine". lovecraft's scab, the material and structural field of human interaction, is not a farce, it's existent, but this existence is so inconsequential and temporary, on every perceivable level, in the face of the eternal cosmic abyss (and the unimaginable that exist beyond it).

what is farcical, what isn't real, is our fantasies, our semiotic field of ideological constructions, anything that hides from the gaze of our unspeakable reality. even our subconscious, our slumber, is no escape, there is the idea pervading through lovecraft's works that dreams are nothing more than a brief glimpse into another unbearable universe, venturing through our unimaginable fractured reality, past the unspeakable that exists between the cracks. it isn't that our experiences are the imaginary cloaking the real domain of the lurker at the threshold, it's that yog-sothoth pervades every single aspect of our reality. negarestani's qiyamah, total desert, isn't islamic. it's not a day of judgement, where we ultimately transcend the system of test and submission and ascend to some other state, what's unbearable in lovecraft and negarestani's apocalypticism is that there is no transcendence, no end, reality endures in all its horror. the return of the Old Ones simply transforms everything we hold dear into a playground for things unthinkable, reality continues as if we never even existed.

so that's where negarestani's apostasy comes in, muslims do not act in submission to Allah, this is nothing more than a fantasy, they are the unknowing servants of the Old Ones, dedicated to a process of reality we couldn't begin to understand. and that's the same for the deluded secularism of western technocapitalism, the same for any ideological construction, our thought games have no bearing on the totality of our existence, we're little more than vessels for forces that can't, on any level, be accounted for.

that's also where you get negarestani's fixation on the tellurian, this base materialism, this obsession with geography and archaeology. oil, dust, desert, even the sun, are capable of an agency comparable to and even exceeding any human. solarcapitalism is an important concept because it strips the connotations of that term entirely from the field of human activity or discourse. and then you also get his macabre fascination with corpses, the body, blood, violence, animality, rot, this is the truth of our existence. and you get his obsession with crypts, graves, (something you get in lovecraft too) and architecture (obviously in lovecraft as well, with his ancient cities of non-euclidean geometry). physical constructions, transformation of our environment, manipulation of solidus, whether that be the formation/reduction of building materials or our own bodies (think about the introductory parable about the piles of sun bleached bones) - these are the only traces it's possible for us to leave, even if these traces aren't anything more than a world-spanning necropolis

Superabound posted:
although the processes of the human mind would also necessarily change with the composition of the phenomenological strata they occupy, so things probably only seem so scary from across the fence


but then lovecraft would deny this. any glimpse of how things really are, our minds just shut down, even reading the mysterious texts of lovecraft's universe that hint at how things really are (and cyclonopedia obviously owes a lot, in terms of aesthetic at least, to these. i mean, essentially it's a horrific grimoire penned by a mad arab) is enough to turn you insane

this idea that we are even capable in any tiny insignificant way to dream up the unbearable totality of this existence is an anthropocentrism you don't find in lovecraft or negarestani, instead we have this purely antihumanist cosmicism. it's profoundly materialist, in a way that goes beyond simple vulgarity, into a totally excessive, sadeian materialism, more fascinated with blood and sand than it ever could be with any human ideal. it's your pea under the mattress, this disavowal of reality, that is summarily rejected by these thinkers. the kingdom of god, any aspiration of immanence or transcendence, any humanism, any universality, any aspiration to a meaning beyond the dirt of our existence, is a sad joke.

Edited by blinkandwheeze ()

#19
im making an effort to re-read 1st chapter since i didn't really "get" it very well and now im free from my other readings



#20
good stuff blink, putting it that way (and considering negarestani's mingling with the spec realist blogosphere krew) makes his position appear extremely aristotelian

which is interesting given that his next book is this: http://blog.urbanomic.com/cyclon/archives/2009/07/the_mortiloquis.html

thats his blog btw, lots of cool Blogs on it

like this:
http://blog.urbanomic.com/cyclon/archives/2010/12/pest_rationalis.html
http://blog.urbanomic.com/cyclon/archives/2009/04/instrumental_sp.html
http://blog.urbanomic.com/cyclon/archives/2008/11/speculative_rea.html (namedrops in the mouth of madness here)
#21
http://vimeo.com/8526611
#22

blinkandwheeze posted:



well i cant really comment on Negarestani because i havent actually read Cyclonopedia yet, but as far as Lovecraft and dreams are concerned with the ability to behold strange realities, you have the singular exception of King Kuranes, who essentially became the god of his own dream realm.

I think the horror that any outer sphere would inflict upon a human mind is primarily a factor of it belonging to a higher order universe. Its like the Flatland analogy thats been used a million times to explain extra spacial dimensions. That itself is an extremely common trope in Lovecraft's work: "impossible" angles shapes and colors that could not possibly rationally exist in our world. Its a higher order universe intruding upon our own. The horror and mind fracture comes from "peering across the veil", not necessarily EXISTING beyond the veil. This is our environment, we are adapted to it, in a universal sense, were are COMPRISED of it. The denizens of the other spheres are adapted to and comprised of things completely alien to use, but intimately familiar to them.

Its the fundamental inability, on a basic physical and existential level, of a lower-order-universe-residing being to understand a higher-order universe/higher-order simulation. The Outer Gods might as well have been computer programs interacting with a simulated universe.

And as far as inanimate objects acting with agency, the basic concepts of solipsism still apply: 100% inanimately acting in ways which could even CONCEIVABLY be retroactively described as having intelligent motive is pretty much completely indistinguishable from actual agency. Hell people use that argument every single day to use the clockwork-like order of the universe as a justification for belief in God. People think that just because something works, just because it efficiently achieves a "goal", that a conscious intelligence must be behind it, when it is clear that that usually means the opposite is more likely to be true.

#23
that lost herbs exhibition is so on point, damn, really beautiful, thanks for that. i was thinking the other day about the 'post-maoist' (badiou, zizek, balibar, etc.) and this particular sphere of speculative realism (negarestani, land) as being a platonic / aristotelian divide. his blog is really great, it's a shame he has a tendency to remove stuff, but i guess that adds to the mystique. that speculative realist cinema & literature post is really fantastic. i'd love to read something by pierre guyotat (remember eden, eden, eden being named negarestani's fav. book in the introduction to cyclon), but it's pretty difficult to find his stuff.

i'm really excited for the mortiloquist, a west to cyclonopedia's east is a really good idea. and in a sense it's a return to form of sorts, cyclonopedia has a really singular aesthetic, but it looks like it's going in the direction of some of his earlier writings (especially under his basilisk pseudonym, still buggin that i found that). it's really cool that he can keep this really coherent and singular artistic vision but still incorporate all these really unexpected and diverse influences, turning from islam via carpenter to de sade & viennese aktionism via body horror films, pretty dope.

has anyone here read houellebecq's lovecraft bio? it looks pretty cool
#24

Superabound posted:


but i think what you're missing is that the higher order universe here is not simply exterior to our own, it exists within and is in direct communication with the one we inhabit. that's where you get these zones of emergence, i mean the impossible angles and colours might not rationally exist here but they manage to regardless. lovecraft's unimaginable constructions can be found as much in the antarctic or a pacific island as they can in any dream universe. we do exist beyond the veil, or more accurately, what is beyond the veil exists within us. we aren't simply comprised of our own tellurian matter, and there are other spheres comprised of alien matter, but our own tellurian existence, everything that we are comprised of, is completely infiltrated by and connected to these forces that we can't understand. lovecraft's madness, this inability to realize a higher-order-universe, isn't just an inability to look at a sphere distinct from our own, this madness occurs completely in the mundane, it can be as simple as reading a book in your university library or wandering down a path you have no business being near. and you get a figure like nyarlathotep, who walks on the earth and directly interferes with and influences our actions. so whatever it is that we are comprised of is not a distinction from forces that are alien but can very well be completely attributable to them.

the agency i'm talking about isn't the same as possessing a conscious intelligence in any human sense, something related to an intelligent motivation, divine or not. think about the blood test scene in the thing. it's different from any retroactive attribution like you mention because we resign ourselves to the fact that we can't even conceive, on any level, what these motivations might be.

Edited by blinkandwheeze ()

#25
Spoiler!

Edited by shennong ()

#26
can we get this stupid shit out of my thread please.
#27

blinkandwheeze posted:
i was thinking the other day about the 'post-maoist' (badiou, zizek, balibar, etc.) and this particular sphere of speculative realism (negarestani, land) as being a platonic / aristotelian divide.



thats on point imo

has anyone here read houellebecq's lovecraft bio? it looks pretty cool



its the best houellebecq (which is to say that its worth reading, not garbage)

#28

blinkandwheeze posted:

Superabound posted:

but i think what you're missing is that the higher order universe here is not simply exterior to our own, it exists within and is in direct communication with the one we inhabit. that's where you get these zones of emergence, i mean the impossible angles and colours might not rationally exist here but they manage to regardless. lovecraft's unimaginable constructions can be found as much in the antarctic or a pacific island as they can in any dream universe. we do exist beyond the veil, or more accurately, what is beyond the veil exists within us. we aren't simply comprised of our own tellurian matter, and there are other spheres comprised of alien matter, but our own tellurian existence, everything that we are comprised of, is completely infiltrated by and connected to these forces that we can't understand. lovecraft's madness, this inability to realize a higher-order-universe, isn't just an inability to look at a sphere distinct from our own, this madness occurs completely in the mundane, it can be as simple as reading a book in your university library or wandering down a path you have no business being near. and you get a figure like nyarlathotep, who walks on the earth and directly interferes with and influences our actions. so whatever it is that we are comprised of is not a distinction from forces that are alien but can very well be completely attributable to them.

the agency i'm talking about isn't the same as possessing a conscious intelligence in any human sense, something related to an intelligent motivation, divine or not. think about the blood test scene in the thing. it's different from any retroactive attribution like you mention because we resign ourselves to the fact that we can't even conceive, on any level, what these motivations might be.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xExP1ThOcyg&t=2m6s

#29

blinkandwheeze posted:
can we get this stupid shit out of my thread please.


it is kinda embarassing how appropriate it is

#30

Prospero posted:
it is kinda embarassing how appropriate it is


honestly i'd rather stop talking about lovecraft entirely if you guys aren't reading cyclonopedia or aren't going to discuss it

babyfinland posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xExP1ThOcyg&t=2m6s


the sound on my laptop is broken atm what are u getting at & also why do u kno this video so well that u can pinpoint a relevant section ...

#31
It's Dawkins talking about how beautiful and true it is that the evolutionary process is unplanned and gives rise to the human brain which can understand its own makeup and the makeup of the universe.
#32
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#33

blinkandwheeze posted:

Superabound posted:

but i think what you're missing is that the higher order universe here is not simply exterior to our own, it exists within and is in direct communication with the one we inhabit. that's where you get these zones of emergence, i mean the impossible angles and colours might not rationally exist here but they manage to regardless. lovecraft's unimaginable constructions can be found as much in the antarctic or a pacific island as they can in any dream universe.



but those are almost always pale mockeries of other things and places, paeans and elegies to distant worlds and dead civilizations, alien technologies, prisons to hold nightmarish but inherently physical and organic lesser gods, etc. There is a clear distinction between the things that are simply 'out there', interstellar, alien but terrestrial, some things immensely powerful but still comparatively mundane and Euclidean, albeit usually still magical or paranormal--and the things beyond that, beyond our phenomenological universe, beyond any classification or understanding.

we do exist beyond the veil, or more accurately, what is beyond the veil exists within us. we aren't simply comprised of our own tellurian matter, and there are other spheres comprised of alien matter, but our own tellurian existence, everything that we are comprised of, is completely infiltrated by and connected to these forces that we can't understand. lovecraft's madness, this inability to realize a higher-order-universe, isn't just an inability to look at a sphere distinct from our own, this madness occurs completely in the mundane, it can be as simple as reading a book in your university library or wandering down a path you have no business being near.



true, but another major theme is the idea of all these things existing existing concurrently in superposition on top of one another. All these other realms are simultaneously distant and right on top of us, accessible though secret knowledge. it screams hyperdimensionality. Sometimes these things are accessible through some form of "science" as in From Beyond, proposing a realm invisible but ultimately tied to and "close" to ours in a sense, a realm that still relies somewhat on physical laws, a realm that is itself scientific, recognizable, and thus breachable by our own science, and physical objects. Things can simply "bleed" through from one to the other. But others are clearly more far away, more clearly alien and unknowable, completely separate from any form of matter or arrangment that would be familiar with a resident of our reality. But all these things still right on top of us. Different membranes, different layers, different levels of abstraction

and you get a figure like nyarlathotep



Nyarlathotep is a User Interface

who walks on the earth and directly interferes with and influences our actions. so whatever it is that we are comprised of is not a distinction from forces that are alien but can very well be completely attributable to them.



but that makes me wonder about how all of these other things can be so powerful, so alien and unknowable, so much bigger, so far removed from us, but then clearly interested in us. all logic should dictate that we would be completely insignificant to them, completely beneath consideration. the only explanation is that our reality is some kind of zoo or petri dish, that our lower-order universe is their creation (or the creation of a universe above theirs, with them as intermediaries or autonomous/regulating programs)

the agency i'm talking about isn't the same as possessing a conscious intelligence in any human sense, something related to an intelligent motivation, divine or not. think about the blood test scene in the thing. it's different from any retroactive attribution like you mention because we resign ourselves to the fact that we can't even conceive, on any level, what these motivations might be.



yes but what we are talking about is movement. physical movement, physical and chemical reactions. those are the only ways anything interacts with its environment. Thought is externally unknowable and thus irrelevant. Even the human brain itself evolved only as a means of more precisely and selectively coordinating movement. We dont have brains so we can "think", we dont have brains so that we can be smart or know more things, we dont have brains for us to take in more information, brains evolved to FILTER information. rather than reacting to every stimulus, the brain sets criteria and thresholds, for movement and reaction. all the brain is is a sophisticated movement coordinator. now of course The Thing was created on the screen with the specific intention that it be and appear to be a living organism with a motive: survive. But in its native form, it has no dialog, no voiceovers, no sense of thought. it merely reacts to stimulus, by moving. we believe it is alive because it moves in ways that we can ourselves apply a motive to. the same could conceivably be said of a magnet. an ignorant person might say that a magnet is alive, that electricity moves with a purpose. honestly ive taken a lot of allergy medicine and mid-scentence i kinda lost whatever point i was wanting to make but whatever, The Thing is awesome i bet the remake sucked. diphenhydramine is a sentient titty

#34
[account deactivated]
#35

Superabound posted:


look i think you're approaching this in completely the wrong way, you can't speculate on the logic of lovecraft's universe because it openly and ardently defies any logic of any fashion. and that means finding anything that could be potentially analogous in our own conceptions of reality - whether that's computer software, conceptual models of concurrent universes, or a kind of zoo, whatever. nyarlathotep isn't a user interface, because we can't even begin to understand what role nyarlathotep plays in any wider scheme of things, because there is nothing there that is perceivable to us in any way

and you're making a mistake by suggesting that these forces that are so unknowable and alien are removed from us, that's wrong. i'm not denying that things tellurian are only a glimpse of the vast unknowable cosmic abyss of lovecraft's mythos, but there is nothing human or euclidian about r'yleh. there are no lower-order or higher-order universes, there are no spaces of exclusion where the outer gods or old ones are not active, there is no hierarchy or absence, it's an unending and unimaginable mass of processes we can't even catch a sight of. the reason these forces so beyond us are so active in human affairs is because they are active in every affair. it's a farce that human thought is anything immanent or unknowable, it's limited and pathetic

i agree with you of course that all there exists is this movement, this constant flux, this base materialism. and that's why i think it's ridiculous and anthropocentric of you to bring any conception of consciousness or motivation into the equation. the monster in the thing acts in ways we can attribute a characteristic of resilience to, but it has no visible purpose or intentions, a question of sentience is even probably irrelevant. the same is true of negarestani's oil, we're talking about agency that exist outside any idea of sentience or consciousness

this lovecraftchat is lame and tangential, bordering on irrelevant, so please stop talking about it or whatever stupid shit or i'll start probating you guys because i can do that now apparently. read this book!!!!

Edited by blinkandwheeze ()

#36
[account deactivated]
#37
may be not interesting to anyone else but me but on page 15 (31 of the pdf) the burrowing snake family Typhlopidae is mentioned. my background is mostly in biology so i had to look it up



look how worm-like it is! convergent evolution in action

Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()

#38
is this thread still about cyclonopedia. because i read bacterial archaeology and some of exhumations while on spring break
#39
negarestani seems to use 'war machines' to refer literally to the machinic assemblages of actual warfare.... if deliberate thats ok i guess but otherwise i think it constitutes a p blatant misreading of d&g.... some of the stuff he says about the change in relationship between the war machine and the state is right on point though
#40
despite his obviously massive debt to them, i don't think there is any particular concrete fidelity to d&g in negarestani. his war machines, and the gog-magog axis, are pretty distinct from theirs, i think, but i'm no expert
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