NounsareVerbs posted:
Take literacy - across the U.S. on average at 17 years old,
1/2 of whites can comprehend text at their grade level
1/4 latino
1/5 blacks

at a college (13th) grade level
1/12 whites
1/50 latino
1/100 blacks

those are pretty scary statistics. obviously the best way to handle this is to go galt on the educational system. surely functionally illiterate inner city residents with fulltime jobs and no educational training will be able to ratchet them numbers up

Cycloneboy posted:

mangosteen posted:
i mean i personally don't know what kind of ein svei death camp your middle school was but it was there that i learned basic mastery of most of the skills i use on a daily basis such as reading, writing, non-algebraic math and basic science. if you went to school in the film adaptation of pink floyd's the wall then my apologies

funny, i remember going to first grade and being expected to know how to read already. bluh??

iirc most of the children i knew in first grade could read to some extent, but it wasn't until later that i think anybody was competent to read an actual book (ostensibly) for adults, which is what i am talking about. if you were a child prodigy then max grats on hiding it so well, i respect your humility

Cycloneboy posted:
NounsareVerbs posted:

If nobody can read at their grade level, doesn't that mean that the amount of reading for that grade level is actually lower?

Kids have actually gotten this much dumber over the past two decades.

And I wasn't trying to say public education is bad. I'm just saying that there is nothing ethically wrong with the idea of taking your child's education into your own hands if you have that actual capability - given the current state of the "system" and the impossibility of changing it.

Of course in practice a lot homeschoolers are for religious/neglect/molestation reasons.

mangosteen posted:
NounsareVerbs posted:
jobs that don't require training beyond a hs-diploma are a completely zero-sum game.


i'm not sure what you mean by this. could you clarify

I mean the available labor outweighs the demand so one person's advantage can only disadvantage another person. Of course the same thing is well underway for college-grads too.

Everything is broken and in need of complete re-visioning - including public education. In the meantime, I don't think it's essentially unethical for parents to take education into their own hands - but of course you have the OP and a lot of parents that do it "for all the wrong reasons."

mangosteen posted:
yeah i'm sure that kids are getting a better education from lurleen, the amazing GED-certified unemployed creationist burger king assistant manager than they are from a public institution however underfunded

the poor schools around here are even worse - since the state NCLB test focuses on reading/writing/math, science, social studies etc. have been dropped or you have "Coach" teaching them completely by-the-book verbatim out of the teachers edition so yea that's about effective a pedagogy as lurleen doing the same thing

also you skipped the part about the other kids slowing the whole lesson or generally requiring laxer standards, having an average teacher not specially prepared to deal with kids in the class that don't speak the language or are emotionally disturbed is the same level as homeschool one-on-one with lurleen

its also cute that you throw "creationist" in there like you won't get the same thing in public school, with a teacher giving a half a class lecture on why evolution needs to be taken with a grain of salt and has no testable scientific results in an AP Biology course

mangosteen posted:
when you grow up you're going to buy a motorcycle and the first time you take it out the vibration will cause your zombie cock to become hard and the process will be so confusing you will go over the high side in front of a party bus full of fratboys

i know what an erection is and masturbate frequently. did i just blow ur mind?

tapespeed posted:
the poor schools around here are even worse - since the state NCLB test focuses on reading/writing/math, science, social studies etc. have been dropped or you have "Coach" teaching them completely by-the-book verbatim out of the teachers edition so yea that's about effective a pedagogy as lurleen doing the same thing

also you skipped the part about the other kids slowing the whole lesson or generally requiring laxer standards, having an average teacher not specially prepared to deal with kids in the class that don't speak the language or are emotionally disturbed is the same level as homeschool one-on-one with lurleen

its also cute that you throw "creationist" in there like you won't get the same thing in public school, with a teacher giving a half a class lecture on why evolution needs to be taken with a grain of salt and has no testable scientific results in an AP Biology course

Edited by tapespeed (today 22:58:17)

plus in a homeschool setting nobody can call you a broken mongoloid who should have eaten a bullet years ago. for example

mangosteen posted:

NounsareVerbs posted:

Take literacy - across the U.S. on average at 17 years old,
1/2 of whites can comprehend text at their grade level
1/4 latino
1/5 blacks

at a college (13th) grade level
1/12 whites
1/50 latino
1/100 blacks

those are pretty scary statistics. obviously the best way to handle this is to go galt on the educational system. surely functionally illiterate inner city residents with fulltime jobs and no educational training will be able to ratchet them numbers up

to be quite honest, that's a poor argument

Edited by impretinent (Dec. 31, 2013 18:03:44)

Child-raising that is relentlessly authoritarian risks instilling what developmental psychologists call “ethical servility”: a failure to mature morally beyond the recognition of duties of obedience.

If you're worried about kids internalizing servility and obedience to authority for authorities for authorities' sake American public school is definitely off the table

lungfish posted:
It probably is wrong to drive a kid to suicide and then mock his death just because he was a flamer tbh

is that really why you think he killed himself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull posted:
The eggshell skull rule (or thin skull rule or you take your victim as you find him rule of the common law) is a well established legal doctrine used in some tort law systems, with a similar doctrine applicable to criminal law.

This rule holds one liable for all consequences resulting from his or her tortious (usually negligent) activities leading to an injury to another person, even if the victim suffers an unusually high level of damage (e.g. due to a pre-existing vulnerability or medical condition). The term implies that if a person had a skull as delicate as the shell of an egg, and a tortfeasor who was unaware of the condition injured that person's head, causing the skull unexpectedly to break, the defendant would be held liable for all damages resulting from the wrongful contact, even if
1. such damages were not reasonably foreseeable, or
2. the tortfeasor did not intend to cause such a severe injury.

imo bullying a person until he commits suicide should be viewed as murder.

discipline posted:
bullying is really awful and can cause a lot of pain and suffering. some kids could kill themselves in serious bully situations that escalated to physical or sexual violence. bullying mixed with depression or other disorders is a dangerous mix too. but tbh I've known a lot of kids who were bullied (including myself) and we didn't kill ourselves. I've also known people who killed themselves and it was never about bullying. maybe things have changed nowadays. but there's bullying and then there's assault. there's bullying and then harassment or stalking. I mean those are totally different things from making fun of someone because they read manga.

that's really why I posted that "eggshell skull" thing. some people are highly sensitive. if you are bullying\harassing someone it is your responsibility to make sure you're doing it to the kind of person who won't crack down and do something stupid.