please, continue to misunderstand what i'm saying and please continue your little history lesson for me :)
shermanstick posted:oh really? breaks you say? i'll have to look into this since you seem to be an "inside source" on this
please, continue to misunderstand what i'm saying and please continue your little history lesson for me
The word you were looking for was "refute," not "misunderstand." hth
LandBeluga posted:That's ALWAYS been the way in hip-hop, it's not just "these days." The genesis of the genre was DJs isolating and extending the breaks they were feeling in tracks that were popular at the time, and you don't need me to tell you that. Bottom line, it's weird for you to say that "producers are trying to flip absolutely anything these days" when it's more or less been the rule throughout the genre's history. It's not something that's unique to any region at any time.
no, it hasn't always been that way. you couldn't just flip anything, you could only flip something you could find two copies of and worked on its own as a breakbeat (basically limiting that to easily available soul, funk or disco records) because the sampling technology didn't exist that could manipulate it effectively. people like kool herc were basically just mining their parents old record collections. even when sampling technology came around in an easily available form with the early e-mu shit that was severely limited by available sampling times so there was only a small amount of leeway you had to flip something unusual by manipulating it. that dj premier standard of introducing unconventional sample sources, like less beat oriented jazz records, really only came about because the akai mpc made it easier to do that shit. even then the standard wasn't anything, sampling has for a very long time stuck hard to conventions based around crate digging for very specific types of music that have aesthetics that are deeply entrenched in hiphops aesthetic and available in record stores, like weird soul 45s. with file sharing and easily available music software thanks to the internet its really only now when you can feasibly flip anything because any type of music you can think of is just a few clicks away
Edited by blinkandwheeze ()
shermanstick posted:im inuit motherfucker
ᑭᓇᐅᕙ? ᐋᕐᖄᐳᖅ
shennong posted:white people arguing about the correct way to enjoy hip hop itt
haha on the real tho this really doesn't have anything to do with privilege or race or whatever, i just think it's weird and reductive to understand any culture as a loose set of aesthetic signifiers or whatever instead of something tied to specific social contexts
blinkandwheeze posted:shennong posted:white people arguing about the correct way to enjoy hip hop itt
haha on the real tho this really doesn't have anything to do with privilege or race or whatever, i just think it's weird and reductive to understand any culture as a loose set of aesthetic signifiers or whatever instead of something tied to specific social contexts
it's bizarre that you feel the need to lecture someone who's actually involved in those specific social contexts producing & djing because they happen to have a different understanding of them than you
shennong posted:blinkandwheeze posted:shennong posted:white people arguing about the correct way to enjoy hip hop itt
haha on the real tho this really doesn't have anything to do with privilege or race or whatever, i just think it's weird and reductive to understand any culture as a loose set of aesthetic signifiers or whatever instead of something tied to specific social contexts
it's bizarre that you feel the need to lecture someone who's actually involved in those specific social contexts producing & djing because they happen to have a different understanding of them than you
i wasn't trying to lecture him, i didn't really have any problem with what landbeluga was saying until that last comment which i think is basically historically completely wrong, not just as a matter of personal perspective or understanding. sorry if we're speaking in a tone that's negative enough to suggest that, glue cru just gets riled up easy
blinkandwheeze posted:LandBeluga posted:That's ALWAYS been the way in hip-hop, it's not just "these days." The genesis of the genre was DJs isolating and extending the breaks they were feeling in tracks that were popular at the time, and you don't need me to tell you that. Bottom line, it's weird for you to say that "producers are trying to flip absolutely anything these days" when it's more or less been the rule throughout the genre's history. It's not something that's unique to any region at any time.
no, it hasn't always been that way. you couldn't just flip anything, you could only flip something you could find two copies of and worked on its own as a breakbeat (basically limiting that to easily available soul, funk or disco records) because the sampling technology didn't exist that could manipulate it effectively. people like kool herc were basically just mining their parents old record collections. even when sampling technology came around in an easily available form with the early e-mu shit that was severely limited by available sampling times so there was only a small amount of leeway you had to flip something unusual by manipulating it. that dj premier standard of introducing unconventional sample sources, like less beat oriented jazz records, really only came about because the akai mpc made it easier to do that shit. even then the standard wasn't anything, sampling has for a very long time stuck hard to conventions based around crate digging for very specific types of music that have aesthetics that are deeply entrenched in hiphops aesthetic and available in record stores, like weird soul 45s. with file sharing and easily available music software thanks to the internet its really only now when you can feasibly flip anything because any type of music you can think of is just a few clicks away
The principles are the same. To generalize, for pioneering DJs and producers it's always been about doing whatever they can conceive of with the sources and technology available. DJs back in the early days of hip-hop were fucking around with any music they could get their hands on, by the standards of their time and locale. There's nothing fundamentally different about a Huntsville producer in 2012 fucking with an indie rock or UK funky sample in Ableton via a Maschine versus a Bronx DJ in 1980 juggling a break from a rock record on two turntables. And if by "only now" you mean "only since over a decade ago" then I'm on-board with that last sentence. Yeah, piracy has gotten easier in the past decade, and music software has become more advanced, but nothing has changed significantly in the last 10 years.
shennong posted:blinkandwheeze posted:shennong posted:white people arguing about the correct way to enjoy hip hop itt
haha on the real tho this really doesn't have anything to do with privilege or race or whatever, i just think it's weird and reductive to understand any culture as a loose set of aesthetic signifiers or whatever instead of something tied to specific social contexts
it's bizarre that you feel the need to lecture someone who's actually involved in those specific social contexts producing & djing because they happen to have a different understanding of them than you
i need a good laugh, so why don't we just post whatever producing and djing thats happening so i can laugh at it and then the glue cru can move on (we run the hip-hop thread)
or ARE YALL TOO SOFT
LandBeluga posted:blinkandwheeze posted:LandBeluga posted:That's ALWAYS been the way in hip-hop, it's not just "these days." The genesis of the genre was DJs isolating and extending the breaks they were feeling in tracks that were popular at the time, and you don't need me to tell you that. Bottom line, it's weird for you to say that "producers are trying to flip absolutely anything these days" when it's more or less been the rule throughout the genre's history. It's not something that's unique to any region at any time.
no, it hasn't always been that way. you couldn't just flip anything, you could only flip something you could find two copies of and worked on its own as a breakbeat (basically limiting that to easily available soul, funk or disco records) because the sampling technology didn't exist that could manipulate it effectively. people like kool herc were basically just mining their parents old record collections. even when sampling technology came around in an easily available form with the early e-mu shit that was severely limited by available sampling times so there was only a small amount of leeway you had to flip something unusual by manipulating it. that dj premier standard of introducing unconventional sample sources, like less beat oriented jazz records, really only came about because the akai mpc made it easier to do that shit. even then the standard wasn't anything, sampling has for a very long time stuck hard to conventions based around crate digging for very specific types of music that have aesthetics that are deeply entrenched in hiphops aesthetic and available in record stores, like weird soul 45s. with file sharing and easily available music software thanks to the internet its really only now when you can feasibly flip anything because any type of music you can think of is just a few clicks away
The principles are the same. To generalize, for pioneering DJs and producers it's always been about doing whatever they can conceive of with the sources and technology available. DJs back in the early days of hip-hop were fucking around with any music they could get their hands on, by the standards of their time and locale. There's nothing fundamentally different about a Huntsville producer in 2012 fucking with an indie rock or UK funky sample in Ableton via a Maschine versus a Bronx DJ in 1980 juggling a break from a rock record on two turntables. And if by "only now" you mean "only since over a decade ago" then I'm on-board with that last sentence.
but that's kinda the point i'm making, you had to post a qualifier that you enjoy g-side despite this obvious or contemporary use of sampling which i don't think is necessary at all, they're just doing what folks have always done, and they do it very creatively and avoid falling into the traps that contemporary sample based production does (mining from already deeply entrenched sources and crate digging cultures). in any case, the technology has been available for the past decade or so but in recent years i think we've seen a revival of sample based production in scenes that have traditionally centered around synthesizer and drum machine workouts thanks to this easy availability, and block beattaz are a good example of that no?
blinkandwheeze posted:LandBeluga posted:blinkandwheeze posted:LandBeluga posted:That's ALWAYS been the way in hip-hop, it's not just "these days." The genesis of the genre was DJs isolating and extending the breaks they were feeling in tracks that were popular at the time, and you don't need me to tell you that. Bottom line, it's weird for you to say that "producers are trying to flip absolutely anything these days" when it's more or less been the rule throughout the genre's history. It's not something that's unique to any region at any time.
no, it hasn't always been that way. you couldn't just flip anything, you could only flip something you could find two copies of and worked on its own as a breakbeat (basically limiting that to easily available soul, funk or disco records) because the sampling technology didn't exist that could manipulate it effectively. people like kool herc were basically just mining their parents old record collections. even when sampling technology came around in an easily available form with the early e-mu shit that was severely limited by available sampling times so there was only a small amount of leeway you had to flip something unusual by manipulating it. that dj premier standard of introducing unconventional sample sources, like less beat oriented jazz records, really only came about because the akai mpc made it easier to do that shit. even then the standard wasn't anything, sampling has for a very long time stuck hard to conventions based around crate digging for very specific types of music that have aesthetics that are deeply entrenched in hiphops aesthetic and available in record stores, like weird soul 45s. with file sharing and easily available music software thanks to the internet its really only now when you can feasibly flip anything because any type of music you can think of is just a few clicks away
The principles are the same. To generalize, for pioneering DJs and producers it's always been about doing whatever they can conceive of with the sources and technology available. DJs back in the early days of hip-hop were fucking around with any music they could get their hands on, by the standards of their time and locale. There's nothing fundamentally different about a Huntsville producer in 2012 fucking with an indie rock or UK funky sample in Ableton via a Maschine versus a Bronx DJ in 1980 juggling a break from a rock record on two turntables. And if by "only now" you mean "only since over a decade ago" then I'm on-board with that last sentence.
but that's kinda the point i'm making, you had to post a qualifier that you enjoy g-side despite this obvious or contemporary use of sampling which i don't think is necessary at all, they're just doing what folks have always done, and they do it very creatively and avoid falling into the traps that contemporary sample based production does (mining from already deeply entrenched sources and crate digging cultures). in any case, the technology has been available for the past decade or so but in recent years i think we've seen a revival of sample based production in scenes that have traditionally centered around synthesizer and drum machine workouts thanks to this easy availability, and block beattaz are a good example of that no?
Sure, and all that Really Matters, especially when I'm trying to keep people on a dancefloor, is whether the result sounds good. Take Chicago juke. The sample sources are generally atrocious, it isn't technically innovative or interesting, but it sounds dope, and - speaking of hyperlocal scenes - it's the present manifestation of an insular evolution that has been going on for a couple of decades, and it's easy to be dismissive of it without knowing that. Ditto Bmore club, Nola bounce, and so on.
It's cool that you guys dog-piled on me for making a kind of joke about being a production snob, though.
blinkandwheeze posted:that's interesting you don't think footwork isn't technically innovative or interesting LandBeluga, that's what i've found most remarkable about that genre. those drum patterns don't fuck around and the sample flips are on some steve reich shit
I guess I can see how it sounds like it would be hard to do, but the technology that's out now makes most of the programming trivial imo. I've heard about Swizz Beats putting together beats in 10-15 minutes, and it wouldn't surprise me if Rashad, Earl, Roc et al make a lot of their beats within a similar time frame when inspiration hits.
this is why i listen to punk instead
blinkandwheeze posted:i don't think the time required to produce something is actually that correlative to technical innovation at all? like a footwork producer who bangs out a track a day might still be a thousand times more interesting, even if not of a better quality, than some ice cold dub techno producer or whatever who spends a week equalizing a kick drum
Maybe I unfairly conflated effort and innovation.
shermanstick posted:for someone who doesn't like juke or footwork, what do you consider to be the essential songs or albums to listen to (youtubes are encouraged)
A good starting point is the Bangs & Works and Ghettoteknitianz compilations on Project Mu. A couple of my favourites from them:
DJ Earl's Triple Threat EP is really good too:
And maybe listen to this mix by Rashad and Spinn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0hTcg695rEp
(wouldn't embed)
Venturing beyond Chicago, Patrice & Friends is one of my favourite juke projects:
Ironicwarcriminal posted:let me show u how to make that crack!
how to spend that money how to make that back
LandBeluga posted:Ironicwarcriminal posted:let me show u how to make that crack!
how to spend that money how to make that back
i don't like that song, it strikes me as an ode to exploitation and misogyny
Ironicwarcriminal posted:LandBeluga posted:Ironicwarcriminal posted:let me show u how to make that crack!
how to spend that money how to make that back
i don't like that song, it strikes me as an ode to exploitation and misogyny
Welcome to hip-hop.
LandBeluga posted:shermanstick posted:for someone who doesn't like juke or footwork, what do you consider to be the essential songs or albums to listen to (youtubes are encouraged)
A good starting point is the Bangs & Works and Ghettoteknitianz compilations on Project Mu. A couple of my favourites from them:
DJ Earl's Triple Threat EP is really good too:
i really dig heaven sent and the dj earl joint, i'll check it out, thx
And maybe listen to this mix by Rashad and Spinn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0hTcg695rEp
(wouldn't embed)
Venturing beyond Chicago, Patrice & Friends is one of my favourite juke projects: