#801

Caesura109 posted:

who wants to torture themselves?

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/7n2s34/iama_survivor_of_stalins_communist_dictatorship/?st=jbttjfmk&sh=a345c695

this guy seems a total hack, anyone know his background well?



that guy, he used to live in the same cul-de-sac. we'd always catch him putting his trash in our bins when his got too full, so we started leaving notes (polite at first, but increasingly stern) requesting he please not do that. at first we thought maybe he couldn't read my handwriting but it became clear he just didn't give a shit.

the tipping point was the day i noticed him doing it again while i was changing my guinea pig's bedding, so i walked outside to confront him. he got all incensed, and started shouting "GET THE FUCK" at me (???). anyway, after a loud and unproductive exchange, i pulled out the spray bottle i had been using to clean the cage (vinegar/water mix) and gave him a spritz in the face

he got so mad he knocked over all the bins and then wouldn't return greetings anymore. things just kinda escalated from there, even though i apologized, though I probably shouldn't have in retrospect because whatever he was putting in our pails was like fucking chum for a gang of really aggressive raccoons

long story short he called the police on us (noise complaints) a couple times over the next year. the first time i guess I was asking for it by blasting the internationale out a window while he was having a garden party, but that was to pay him back for spitting on the ground in front of my young niece (he went back into his house when he saw me coming out to holler at him). anyway i guess that emboldened him because the next time was completely gratuitous and obviously just harassment.

i can't prove anything, but i am like 90% sure that he kicked the panel on the side of my car, because that dent fucking wasn't there when i parked

basically steer clear, that guy is Bad News

#802
Looks like he also used the "slav brain pan can't handle not having an authoritarian" line
#803
https://imgur.com/a/gI9gj lol case closed
#804

AZ_IZ_OT posted:

tho, fuckin lol, he thinks Beria assassinated Stalin, never seen that one before


i think i remember seeing that in like a readers digest 'great mysteries of the 20th century' book where they talked about stalin's death

#805

Constantignoble posted:


my friend shared a driveway with grover furr for a while, apparently he's a very pleasant dude, didn't even mind his late night thrash band practices. QED communism is good

#806
*teleporting into thread in full red army cosplay* did someone just mention beria?
#807

neckwattle posted:

Constantignoble posted:

my friend shared a driveway with grover furr for a while, apparently he's a very pleasant dude, didn't even mind his late night thrash band practices. QED communism is good



I'm choosing to read this as saying Grover Furr has a thrash band and there's nothing you can do to change my mind

#808

lo posted:

AZ_IZ_OT posted:


tho, fuckin lol, he thinks Beria assassinated Stalin, never seen that one before


i think i remember seeing that in like a readers digest 'great mysteries of the 20th century' book where they talked about stalin's death


i think it's really cool that people can hold the thoughts "this man was a crazed completely irrational paranoiac who imagined secret murder conspiracies around every corner" and "btw same dude was killed by a secret murder conspiracy" at the same time and see no problems with that juxtaposition.

#809
Exodus - Scar Spangled Banner (feat. Grover Furr III)
#810
Blood Anus - Lets Kill Khruschev
#811


Edited by xipe ()

#812
I think some people here might recognize the inquisitive old man who shows up in the audience of this talk by Mr. Furr on Blood Lies.



This guy's channel looks like it has a few other Furr talks on it if anyone is interested.
#813
somebody make a parenti and furr yaoi and im set for life
#814


messages from soviet citizens & children buried in 1967 time capsules were dug up and had some poignant messages for us thrown back into the Capitalist dark ages

https://www.calvertjournal.com/articles/show/9371/soviet-time-capsules-comrades-1967-2017-russian-revolution-centenery
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftheins.ru%2Fobshestvo%2F78318&edit-text=&act=url

“You’ve never had to chant: ‘Shame on the Israeli aggressors!’, you’ve never had to protest the criminal war in Vietnam, read news about provocations in revolutionary Cuba. How far away these events are from you!"
...

“We paid a heavy price of millions of lives for our victory. And today, on 22 June 1969, on the 28th anniversary of the treacherous attack by Nazi Germany on our Soviet country, we address you, those who don’t know what war is. We urge you to remember and respect the memory of those who gave their lives in the fight for socialism, who died defending the freedom of the motherland and European nations from foreign invaders. Guard like sacred relics the monuments we have built to commemorate those who died.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/


4 part investigation into why the USSR is no longer with us:
http://www.invent-the-future.org/2017/11/why-doesnt-the-soviet-union-exist-any-more-part-1-introduction/
http://www.invent-the-future.org/2017/12/why-doesnt-the-soviet-union-exist-any-more-part-2-economic-stagnation/
http://www.invent-the-future.org/2017/12/why-doesnt-the-soviet-union-exist-any-more-part-3-ideological-deterioration-and-decaying-confidence/
http://www.invent-the-future.org/2017/12/why-doesnt-the-soviet-union-exist-any-more-part-4-imperialist-destabilisation-and-military-pressure/

Edited by xipe ()

#815
the great patriotic war and the inventions of khrushchev https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WS8cCjXDgdJaXFrkW9b1ldY3xlwiPPQ89AwZo53Amlk/edit
#816
wow post that to r/getmotivated
#817
http://www.stalkerzone.org/egor-yakovlev-germany-won-war-ussr-repeat-fate-native-americans/

But during my period of growing up (it coincided with the dismantlement of the country) in society and the media new opinions emerged – the evil intentions of the Third Reich began to be denied: the concept of a pre-emptive strike emerged, according to which Hitler simply preempted the insidious Stalin. Also the existence of the plan for the mass extermination of Soviet citizens was called into question. The events familiar since school – the destruction of Khatyn and Krasukha, the tragedy of prisoners of war, the blockade of Leningrad – were called "random excesses"...



some of the patterns that i see are:
whenever the nazis/holocaust is mentioned, bring up that "the soviets were worse" (and whenever any random fact about soviet life is brought up make sure to say the soviets were worse than the nazis)
sow confusion about nazi crimes: they didnt happen, they can be explained, they were done by the bad nazis not the good ones
say that the nazis were liberators, or that their ukrainian/baltic/caucasian collaborators were freedom fighters
use the evidence, imagery, testimony, name etc of the holocaust, but relabel it as holodomor or red holocaust
after confusing, comparing, and then replacing the holocaust, brand people who protest or bring up facts as 'genocide deniers'

thats in the west at least: i havent really seen how banderites or other nationalists defend this project if they are forced to use words and debate instead of violence or state power/ignoring dissent


Who was the main architect of the starvation plan?
The State Secretary of the Imperial Ministry of Food and Agriculture Herbert Backe. He divided the USSR into zones of affluence and consumption. The first included the chernozem territories of Ukraine and southern Russia, the second – forest areas with barren soil in North-Western and Central Russia. The plan was to block the arrival of food to zones of consumption and to starve primarily the urban population of these regions. Its implementation objectively would lead to the death of thirty million people. Hermann Göring, speaking about this to the Italian Foreign Minister Galeazzo Ciano, said: 'There is a need a reduce certain nations'

How was it supposed to be implemented in practice?
The city should be surrounded, the system of life-support destroyed by artillery and aircraft, access to food is blocked, the population is partly dying out, partly squeezed out to the East up to the Urals. I.e., two problems are solved at the same time. Firstly, resources are distributed in favor of Germany, and, secondly, the land is cleaned, on which it is possible to later settle German colonists. So it was like this that Backe and his co-author, the Wehrmacht General Georg Thomas, in 1941, imagined it.

Are you hinting at the blockade of Leningrad?
Also, yes. The blockade of Leningrad was part of this plan, it was an action planned in advance. It is openly stated in the 'Oldenburg' Memorandum dated 23rd May, 1941, to deprive the residents of the city on the Neva of food. Leningrad was the first in the plan of Backe. Moscow and other cities were supposed to be next. Here is one of the German directives: 'For all other cities there is a rule that before they are taken, they must be destroyed by artillery fire and aviation attacks, and the population must be forced to flee' The plan of Backe was not implemented in full because of the failure of the blitzkrieg, but it acted on the occupied territories of the Leningrad region, for example, in Pushkin. In the winter of 1941-42, there, almost half of the population died out due to the organized starvation, including the famous science fiction writer, author of 'Amphibian man' Aleksander Belyaev. The planned famine, when the population was 'locked' in the city without a supply of food, was also in the cities of the South of the country, in Kiev and Kharkov, where, in particular, the famous architect Beketov - the uncle of Aleksandr Blok - died from starvation.

#818
NYT March 1933
http://www.garethjones.org/soviet_articles/russians_hungry_not_starving.htm

RUSSIANS HUNGRY, BUT NOT STARVING
Deaths From Diseases Due to Malnutrition High, Yet the Soviet is Entrenched
LARGER CITIES HAVE FOOD
Ukraine, North Caucasus and Lower Volga Regions Suffer From Shortages.
KREMLIN'S 'DOOM' DENIED
Russian and Foreign Observers In Country See No Ground for Predications of Disaster
By WALTER DURANTY
Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES

MOSCOW, March 30---In the middle of the diplomatic duel between Great Britain and the Soviet Union over the accused British engineers there appears from a British source a big scare story in the American press about famine in the Soviet Union, with "thousands already dead and millions menaced by death and starvation."

Its author is Gareth Jones, who is a former secretary to David Lloyd George and who recently spent three weeks in the Soviet Union and reached the conclusion that the country was "on the verge of a terrific smash," as he told the writer.

Mr. Jones is a man of a keen and active mind, and he has taken the trouble to learn Russian, which he speaks with considerable fluency, but the writer thought Mr. Jones's judgment was somewhat hasty and asked him on what it was based. It appeared that he had made a forty-mile walk through villages in the neighborhood of Kharkov and had found conditions sad.

I suggested that that was a rather inadequate cross-section of a big country but nothing could shake his conviction of impending doom.

Predictions of Doom Frequent.

The number of times foreigners, especially Britons, have shaken rueful heads as they composed the Soviet Union's epitaph can scarcely be computed, and in point of fact it has done incalculable harm since the day when William C. Bullitt's able and honest account of the situation was shelved and negatived during the Versailles Peace Conference by reports that Admiral Kolchak, White Russian leader, had taken Kazan - which he never did - and that the Soviet power was "one the verge of an abyss."

Admiral Kolchak faded. Then General Denikin took Orel and the Soviet Government was on the verge of an abyss again, and General Yudenich "took" Petrograd. But where are Generals Denikin and Yudenich now?

A couple of years ago another British "eyewitness" reported a mutiny in the Moscow garrison and "rows of corpses neatly piled in Theatre Square," and only this week a British news agency revealed a revolt of the Soviet Fifty-fifth Regiment at Duria, on the Manchurian border. All bunk, of course.

This is not to mention a more regrettable incident of three years ago when an American correspondent discovered half of Ukraine flaming with rebellion and "proved" it by authentic documents eagerly proffered by Rumanians, which documents on examination appeared to relate to events of eight or ten years earlier.

Saw No One Dying

But to return to Mr. Jones. He told me there was virtually no bread in the villages he had visited and that the adults were haggard, guant and discouraged, but that he had seen no dead or dying animals or human beings.

I believed him because I knew it to be correct not only of some parts of the Ukraine but of sections of the North Caucasus and lower Volga regions and, for that matter, Kazakstan, where the attempt to change the stock-raising nomads of the type and the period of Abraham and Isaac into 1933 collective grain farmers has produced the most deplorable results.

It is all too true that the novelty and mismanagement of collective farming, plus the quite efficient conspiracy of Feodor M. Konar and his associates in agricultural commissariats, have made a mess of Soviet food production.

But---to put it brutally---you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs, and the Bolshevist leaders are just as indifferent to the casualties that may be involved in their drive toward socializaton as any General during the World War who ordered a costly attack in order to show his superiors that he and his division possessed the proper soldierly spirit. In fact, the Bolsheviki are more indifferent because they are animated by fanatical conviction.

Since I talked to Mr. Jones I have made exhaustive inquiries about this alleged famine situation. I have inquired in Soviet commissariats and in foreign embassies with their network of consuls, and I have tabulated information from Britons working as specialists and from my personal connections, Russian and foreign.

Disease Mortality Is High

All of this seems to me to be more trustworthy information than I could get by a brief trip through any one area. The Soviet Union is too big to permit a hasty study, and it is the foreign correspondent's job to present a whole picture, not a part of it. And here are the facts:

There is a serious shortage food shortage throughout the country, with occasional cases of well-managed State or collective farms. The big cities and the army are adequately supplied with food. There is no actual starvation or deaths from starvation, but there is widespread mortality from diseases due to malnutrition.

In short, conditions are definitely bad in certain sections- the Ukraine, North Caucasus and Lower Volga. The rest of the country is on short rations but nothing worse. These conditions are bad, but there is no famine.

The critical months in this country are February and March, after which a supply of eggs, milk and vegetables comes to supplement the shortage of bread - if, as now, there is a shortage of bread. In every Russian village food conditions will improve henceforth, but that will not answer one really vital question---What about the coming grain crop?

Upon that depends not the future of the Soviet power, which cannot and will not be smashed, but the future policy of the Kremlin. If through climatic conditions, as in 1921, the crop fails, then, indeed, Russia will be menaced by famine. If not, the present difficulties will be speedily forgotten.


See also April 1933 NYT:
http://www.garethjones.org/soviet_articles/soviet_industry_shows_big_gains.htm
#819
:rolleyes:

https://www.calvertjournal.com/opinion/show/9573/the-death-of-stalin-ministry-of-culture-censorship-farce
#820

xipe posted:

4 part investigation into why the USSR is no longer with us:
http://www.invent-the-future.org/2017/11/why-doesnt-the-soviet-union-exist-any-more-part-1-introduction/
http://www.invent-the-future.org/2017/12/why-doesnt-the-soviet-union-exist-any-more-part-2-economic-stagnation/
http://www.invent-the-future.org/2017/12/why-doesnt-the-soviet-union-exist-any-more-part-3-ideological-deterioration-and-decaying-confidence/
http://www.invent-the-future.org/2017/12/why-doesnt-the-soviet-union-exist-any-more-part-4-imperialist-destabilisation-and-military-pressure/



related:
https://gowans.wordpress.com/2012/12/21/do-publicly-owned-planned-economies-work/

#821
I hadnt known about this

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/09/timothy-snyders-lies/

ctrl+F furr
0 results

But it does say:

America is not a fascist country, at least not yet.

#822
Has any author really been far even as decided to write even go want to do look more lies?
#823


#824
https://freedomnews.org.uk/polish-president-and-pm-set-to-join-fascist-march-in-warsaw/
#825
in 2017 Grover furr revealed the evidence that trotsky collaberated with the nazis.

in 1933, diego rivera painted this:



at the rockafeller centre in new york, its called "Man at the Crossroads", many of you will be familiar with this alreadly, but lets take a closer look:



;)

#826
that marx sideeye
#827
i no rite, its funny
#828
the history of that mural & the Rockefellers is pretty weird
#829
Director of the Rockefeller center who is literally rockefeller: *crying* please stop
Rivera: And we'll put... Vladimir Ilyich Lenin... right here.
#830
Finally got around to listening to this Stalin episode on rev left radio. The guests are Justin and Jeremy from Proles of the Round Table. Most of it is really good however at about 51 minutes they start talking about the holodomor myth and the guests seem to suggest there was no famine at all. Grover Furr's line on this is that there was a famine but it was not intentional and he cites Mark Tauger's work among others. Justin and Jeremy IIRC don't mention Tauger but they do bring up other sources during the same time period which claim to have not witnessed a famine (maybe from Douglas Tottle). I don't have enough time to read through this thread again but was this ever discussed or resolved?
#831

Synergy posted:

Finally got around to listening to this Stalin episode on rev left radio. The guests are Justin and Jeremy from Proles of the Round Table. Most of it is really good however at about 51 minutes they start talking about the holodomor myth and the guests seem to suggest there was no famine at all. Grover Furr's line on this is that there was a famine but it was not intentional and he cites Mark Tauger's work among others. Justin and Jeremy IIRC don't mention Tauger but they do bring up other sources during the same time period which claim to have not witnessed a famine (maybe from Douglas Tottle). I don't have enough time to read through this thread again but was this ever discussed or resolved?


Yes.

#832

Synergy posted:

Finally got around to listening to this Stalin episode on rev left radio. The guests are Justin and Jeremy from Proles of the Round Table. Most of it is really good however at about 51 minutes they start talking about the holodomor myth and the guests seem to suggest there was no famine at all. Grover Furr's line on this is that there was a famine but it was not intentional and he cites Mark Tauger's work among others. Justin and Jeremy IIRC don't mention Tauger but they do bring up other sources during the same time period which claim to have not witnessed a famine (maybe from Douglas Tottle). I don't have enough time to read through this thread again but was this ever discussed or resolved?


There was definitely a famine and trying to pretend there wasn't is stupid and insane, sincere condolences to rev left radio and Yet Another Pair Of Podcast Dudes on being fuckups.

#833
It's cool that some people hear "Stop making shit up about Stalin" and take away the message "Make shit up about Stalin, but make sure its all Incredibly Good Things this time"
#834
liberal brain: Stalin signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact because the Bad Man did a Bad Thing just to Be Bad.

marxist brain: The USSR signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact as a defensive last resort after diplomatic negotiations with France and Britain for a preemptive strike against the Nazis were refused by the colonial powers.

scintillating podcaster brain: Stalin did nothing wrong, therefore we know that fascism is a mass hallucination and there was no Great Patriotic War. QED motherfuckers!!
#835
The only argument to be had about the famine, besides the death count, is how much blame to apportion to natural conditions and how much to policy. But it is indeed quite easy to dismiss the holodomor myth without denying historical facts such as "there was not enough food for a while and people suffered and died".
#836
millennia of bidecadal famine overcome in 1 generation, by collectivization and modern machinery. i need to finish books but i stopped halfway thru blood lies struck by the realization that the entire debate's so goddamn dumb. like the ukrainian people survived? so why didn't stalin try again 5 years later. why did the horseman come, basically, right on schedule. i got heat for the comparison but there WAS a man-made famine then halfway round the world a certain somewhere: