#481
i refuse to watch any pre-release materials and will thank you not to be tossing around spoilers like so many thermal detonators
#482
[account deactivated]
#483
was gonna make a joke about you being anti-materialist but it just wouldnt form
#484

discipline posted:

did she know who david duke was? I can't watch the show, I don't have enough internet


my guess is probably not

#485
i just think that even if you think third world nationalism is awesome (i dont really have an educated opinion here), the Actual KKK is really not that
#486

discipline posted:

did she know who david duke was? I can't watch the show, I don't have enough internet


a) She's been on the show at least twice in the past few years so she was definitely capable of typing his name into Google sometime during that period
b) She has a video on #GamerGate (lol) that include an Anders Breivik-inspired rant about "cultural marxism" so she is probably just a standard crypto-fascist.

#487
lol i never actually watched the gamergate video
#488
no time to talk, quick update: some people in iran have said some nasty things about jews. i propose we direct the left's attention toward that instead so we can more effectively combat american imperialism.
#489
hold on, transmission coming in: questionable racial rhetoric in this North Korea press release. we'll need to discuss that first.

boy, with all these distractions coming out of absolutely nowhere, i think we should take a break, so Let's all go out for some frosty chocolate milkshakes.
#490

daddyholes posted:

no time to talk, quick update: some people in iran have said some nasty things about jews. i propose we direct the left's attention toward that instead so we can more effectively combat american imperialism.


You have to start wrapping your mind around that fact you post on an internet forum and don't direct the left.

#491

daddyholes posted:

hold on, transmission coming in: questionable racial rhetoric in this North Korea press release. we'll need to discuss that first.

boy, with all these distractions coming out of absolutely nowhere, i think we should take a break, so Let's all go out for some frosty chocolate milkshakes.


This is completely disingenuous btw, you can claim any sort of intra-leftist criticism is a distraction and foreclose it entirely if you want, but in the actual real world crypto-fascist rants and Hitler FM appearances by people leftists are supposed to take seriously are actually perfectly legitimate grounds for criticism and not at all comparable to State Dept. propaganda about the DPRK or whatever.

#492
Well, I direct the left. I'm the Leader of the North American Marxist-Leninist Bolshevik Alliance, which is the principal pre-party organization of hyperleft eurohoxhaists. Lessons, you can be the Youth Liaison if you like.
#493

Lessons posted:

You have to start wrapping your mind around that fact you post on an internet forum and don't direct the left.



#494
geez not even i am pro assad enough to call that intra leftist criticism. in any case everyone seems to be stopping talking about it pretty quickly which is ideal and we can do that here too if you'd like.
#495

getfiscal posted:

Well, I direct the left. I'm the Leader of the North American Marxist-Leninist Bolshevik Alliance, which is the principal pre-party organization of hyperleft eurohoxhaists. Lessons, you can be the Youth Liaison if you like.


I'll make the website.

#496
my dad listens to crazy talk show radio in the morning and if instead of starting dinner by talking about angels or aliens he went "So, have you heard about The Lion Assad?" i'd be pretty stoked
#497
daddyholes is completely right hope this helps.
#498
i don't like nazis and i don't want to fight anymore. i'm so tired. i have le neighbors who DONT DRIP TAPS. wAter POURS from le wall outlets i guess "work from home" today will be "stand on the bumper of a fire truck and electrocute myself with my phone"

Posted from my Samsung John Carmack Special Edition IV-DMG
#499
people regularly get confused about what anti-imperialism is because they fundamentally refuse to accept the consequences of third worldism into their own ego. they believe that the first world left is not revolutionary but consider themselves exceptions, or think that they alone have unclouded access to "truth" and are therefore exempt from the wider discourse of first world propaganda. see right here where Thug Lessons distinguishes his own identical rhetoric from American propaganda despite the fact that he is an american, a white labor aristocrat, and a proven pro-imperialist because he's a "member of the left".

anti-imperialism is a simple understanding that without imperialism capitalism would stop growing and therefore die (or be forced into open warfare exposing its reactionary core). it is similar to the syndicalist idea that workers stopping working would by itself destroy capitalism. syndicalism failed because it neglected politics and the need for the party to not only sustain a general strike but overthrow the system. interestingly anti-imperialism has similar tactics (broad coalitions like ANSWER, emphasis on the largest population possible protesting like before Iraq) but has far lesser goals than syndicalism. it fully understands that anti-imperialism itself can never become a positive communist political project. all it can do is force the conditions of exploitation to return home and allow communist projects to develop in the third world without imperialist violence.

therefore who one allies with in the anti-imperialist struggle is irrelevant, as anti-imperialism is not even a political movement. it is simply a broad alliance that allows politics to begin developing without the distorting effects of imperialism on the first world labor aristocracy and the third world "survival" nationalist movements. it has no moral component and is specifically designed to appeal to as broad a base as possible. especially in america which was reactionary-isolationist for most of it's history and has only become fully militarized for endless war after world war II. it is an understanding that people like Thug Lessons cannot be progressive (myself as well) as long as the imperialist system exists, and that we are the same as David Duke except feel more guilt.
#500
rejecting complete anti-imperialism is like rejecting general strikes because they failed to make revolutions or rejecting the vanguard party because it has led to the restoration of capitalism under the nominally same party. rather it is the prerequisite to even beginning to think about revolution, the first stepping stone made for communists in the present by the historical experiences, failure and success of billions of oppressed people over centuries. stepping back instead of forward is the result of imperialist thinking and means one is a communist for ones own ego. therefore syrian girl is not a communist but has the potential to become one, while Thug Lessons will never be a communist despite reading hundreds of books on Marxism. that the overwhelming majority of the first world left rejects all the basic stepping stones set out by real revolutions and wishes to step on their own path shows their immense ego as well as the fundamental correctness of third worldism.
#501
I think that's a super philosophy, Will; that way you can go through your entire life without ever having to really know anybody...
#502
none of that has anything to do with why it's important to court neo-nazis in anti-imperialism movements.

also, saying that anti-imperialism is (or should be?) apolitical and simply focuses on the number of bodies and mass appeal of the messages ignores the real ruptures and distinctions that have occurred in the anti-war movement. for example, those who march with slogans like 'sanctions not war' or who want to condemn one war while keeping quiet about 'the good one' going on elsewhere. the split between ANSWER and UFPJ in the antiwar movement is indicative here.

you may say that the above are liberal co-opters who are not practicing 'true' anti-imperialism (and i would certainly agree), but this is exactly where politics are necessary to make those distinctions.
#503
the masses, and the masses alone, make world history. since i am one of seven billion people, i have virtually zero effect on world history even if expend a huge amount of effort on it, so it makes more sense to just read and talk to friends and enjoy the ride. of course, communism is just a way of organizing the economy and not really a philosophy in itself, so islam will probably take over, which is fine in my opinion. i'll be dead so whatever. good luck with all that, humanity.
#504

postposting posted:

none of that has anything to do with why it's important to court neo-nazis in anti-imperialism movements.

also, saying that anti-imperialism is (or should be?) apolitical and simply focuses on the number of bodies and mass appeal of the messages ignores the real ruptures and distinctions that have occurred in the anti-war movement. for example, those who march with slogans like 'sanctions not war' or who want to condemn one war while keeping quiet about 'the good one' going on elsewhere. the split between ANSWER and UFPJ in the antiwar movement is indicative here.

you may say that the above are liberal co-opters who are not practicing 'true' anti-imperialism (and i would certainly agree), but this is exactly where politics are necessary to make those distinctions.



nobody said you don't need politics, of course communists need politics. nobody would care about ANSWER if it wasnt a tactical front for the PSL (nor would it be as effective as a tactic). but thats the point, anti-imperialism is a tactic that works that precedes communist politics which is the realm of principled stands and sectarian splits. not all vanguard parties are communist but all communist parties are vanguards, not all terrors are revolutionary but all revolutionary states have terror, etc.

the point im making is that the split between ANSWER and UFPJ came because anti-imperialism had reached its limit and the time came for communist politics. you may think that's dumb because there was no communist revolution but the failure of the war on syria proves that the work has been done. the US can no longer invade countries to impose its will and thus the cold war between BRICS and the EU/USA is turning hot. the facade of democracy in the USA is gone and though its easy to get lost in the heart of imperialist propaganda the overwhelming majority of the world's imperialist sub-partners are turning their backs on the USA. I think its important to take a long view of these things even if that is precisely the failure of anti-war coalitions.

as for your other point, I agree its basically impossible to get rightists and liberals to oppose the "good" wars of sanctions, UN humanitarian work, oil and trade wars, etc and that any anti-imperialist needs to step into the realm of politics here. but rather than a matter of ideological disagreement, we need to rethink our concept of politics as changing what is acceptable (legible) rather than what is correct. I think the point of politics should be to make even neo-NAZIs and liberals debate within the terrain of anti-imperialism, so that for example even the neo-liberals and anti-india fascists in Nepal are forced to speak in the language of maoist revolution. im not saying to engage with neo-nazis, only that communists are the only ones who truly engage in politics as such and any other questions are a matter of tactics and real investigation into the present friends and enemies.

#505

But Steve Ault argues that some controversial positions have actually been useful to ANSWER. “They come up with a wedge issue to use against the other coalition, and they scream ‘racism,’” he says. “And they do it very well.”

The question of Palestine is currently ANSWER’s principal “wedge issue.” UFPJ’s own hedging on linking the struggles in Palestine and Iraq has served ANSWER well. In the prelude to the March 2004 rally in New York, ANSWER insisted on making an end to the occupation of Palestine a central demand of the demonstration. UFPJ balked, stating that while they agreed it was important to address Palestine, the main purpose of the march was to express broad opposition to the war in Iraq. ANSWER responded by circulating a letter online, signed by numerous Arab and Muslim groups, charging that it was “racist” of the antiwar movement not to give the Palestinian cause equal footing.
...
Ramey also admits that IAC’s “position on Milosevic isn’t something there is a lot of awareness of in the Muslim communities where ANSWER has been successful in organizing.”

Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, which works with ANSWER while not being an official member of the coalition, is aware of its position on Milosevic, and makes no bones about his disagreement. “I don’t support that line. I think Milosevic was a genocidal butcher. But we can work with people we have disagreements with.”
...
From a purely tactical standpoint, there may be some logic to de-emphasizing unpopular issues in the interests of building a broad front around a single issue (Iraq). But from a moral standpoint, attacking ANSWER’s positions on Palestine and Mumia rather than (or even in addition to) its stance on Milosevic and Tiananmen Square dangerously muddies the water. The prior two causes may be unpopular, but they are perfectly legitimate; in contrast, the Workers World positions on Bosnia and Tiananmen Square constitute defense of the indefensible.

Steve Ault recognizes this danger. “I work with communists, and I have no problem doing so,” he says. “My real problem with ANSWER is their process, or lack of it. Workers World gives communism a bad name. They use the charge of red-baiting to silence criticism in an unprincipled way. And much of the criticism against them comes from people arguably further to the left than they are.”



http://www.warresisters.org/nva/nva1105-1.htm

This whole article is great because it shows how 1st world communist politics work. Communist politics are sort of like trolling because communism is the only genuine political position, all others are negotiations within the liberal political paradigm. So you attack the guilt liberals have, you use broad based tactics to push specific radical issues, you play on the egos of first worlders to feel "bigger" than politics. It sorta reminds me of black bloc tactics which turn the theater of liberal demonstrations into violence in an attempt to provoke police violence and bring contradictions to the fore.

Liberals have no interest in ending imperialism, its in their class interest. You can either lie to them and get them to oppose imperialism without realizing it will destroy their own privilege until its too late or expose the truth, begin war, and bring out the inherent fascist in every liberal. Within that distinction the difference between a fascist and a liberal is only a matter of time.

#506
actually comrade stalin believed that many liberals and democrats were potential allies against fascism, see the popular front strategy that won power in many countries in eastern europe and east asia. if you think stalin and mao were stupid for allying with first world liberals on their terms please explain why.
#507

getfiscal posted:

actually comrade stalin believed that many liberals and democrats were potential allies against fascism, see the popular front strategy that won power in many countries in eastern europe and east asia. if you think stalin and mao were stupid for allying with first world liberals on their terms please explain why.



Stalin also allied with NAZI germany against the west. Mao allied with the KMT. I don't know how you can argue they had a principled position against fascism as inherently worse than liberalism, rather they had very pragmatic views of fascism as an aspect of liberalism, its inevitable failure and inter-imperialist war opening up space for communism.

#508

babyhueypnewton posted:

Stalin also allied with NAZI germany against the west. Mao allied with the KMT. I don't know how you can argue they had a principled position against fascism as inherently worse than liberalism, rather they had very pragmatic views of fascism as an aspect of liberalism, its inevitable failure and inter-imperialist war opening up space for communism.

i said they were potential allies against fascism, that you could split and divide the bourgeoisie and rally much of the lower ranks (the petty-bourgeoisie) to the revolution. the position that the bourgeoisie was reactionary as a bloc was the trotskyist position (and also various leftcoms), which is why they opposed the popular front policy. this isn't a matter of deep principle, it applies to situations where fascism (which is an extreme form of bourgeois rule) is the main problem, such that you can unite with liberal (bourgeois-democratic) parties to defend against fascism.

this might not apply as much in the contemporary situation, but that's because fascism is a reaction to insurgent proletarian rule, and proletarian rule is not considered a big immediate threat in many parts of the world. maybe a few places. the problem you identify is that most communist parties had difficulty shifting from anti-fascism to struggle against liberal-democratic capitalism, which is true enough, but the new left confronted those sorts of questions head-on (may 68, for example). i think most of the problem was material and connected to the leadership of the communist movement, which was devastated by the wars of liberation from 1940s onwards and wanted a breathing space to recover, which was used by the US and its allies to consolidate power, wreck socialism and divide up the world. this is a hiccup in the grand scheme of things, though. communism is inevitable.

#509

babyhueypnewton posted:

im not saying to engage with neo-nazis


maybe you aren't but im pretty sure this is exactly what superabound was saying

#510
stalin allied with nazi germany against the west - bhpn, expert on communism
#511
much like my comrade the great man of steel, i too choose fascism over liberalism
#512

Petrol posted:

Every one is missing the point here, which is, Syrian Partisan Girl is basically a spook, sponsored by CIA/MI6 (a la Brown Moses). Its pretty obvious. She does her best to tie the anti-imperialist (pro-Assad) cause to wacked out right wing western conspiracy causes celebres such as KKK and gamergate. The latter is actually the most telling imo, which is why i posted the youtube. If it doesnt ring any serious alarm bells that a supposed Authentic Syrian Pro-Assad Activist has time to make vlogs about "cultural marxism" and "ethics in game journalism" then i dont know what to fucking tell you.

Dont lump me in with them

#513
not a blog per se but its pretty cool to sit in the parapet of a gigantic tower made of all of my furniture sitting right in the middle of my living room. i made a little Kaaba down below to show solidarity. i guess this actually is a blog. well, here's a link to it: http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/post/265426/
#514
god jesus i pray to you take my posting hands so i may post no more amen
#515
i dont understand why anyone here ever took "syria girl" seriously when her whole shtick is a cloying ploy to use patriarchal ideals of femininity to titillate male viewers into listening to her crypto-fascist views about nationalism. what a surprise such a person has troubling views or endorsements about gender, race, and "cultural marxism". as if there arent any better spokeswomen for anti-imperialism in syria than someone using such a cynical method to grab attention. god i hate the internet.
#516
i thought she was cool because i saw her standing up against international intervention in syria. she seemed generally correct onthat point, so i thought she might be epic and good??? onc ei saw the gamergate video i realized she was either a fascist or cia
#517
everyone we dont like is facist or cia. this is not sarcasm it is the sober truth
#518
even if she was 100% correct on everything she said i'd still be turned off by her obviously manipulative and base presentation. but of course a person with some integrity wouldn't portray herself in an oversexualized manner in the first place for the sweet sweet viewcounts
#519

aerdil posted:

even if she was 100% correct on everything she said i'd still be turned off by her obviously manipulative and base presentation. but of course a person with some integrity wouldn't portray herself in an oversexualized manner in the first place for the sweet sweet viewcounts



yeah how come you need boobs before anyone will pay attention to you #mensrights

#520
[account deactivated]