Hitler posted:

yo krink, it's cool that you're casting doubt on the war march propaganda, but isn't the principled stance to oppose intervention even if assad uses chemical weapons? i guess that doesn't mean it isn't strategically viable to fight the propaganda war or w/e

the thing is that the UN considers systematic use of chemical weapons to be a crime against humanity that compels intervention. which is probably a sound principle and would probably be grounds for 'humanitarian intervention' if assad really were killing many thousands of people with it. the problem is more that the US has no moral high ground to launch that attack from, and it would probably make things a lot worse for everyone in syria, among other reasons.

Hitler posted:

yo krink, it's cool that you're casting doubt on the war march propaganda, but isn't the principled stance to oppose intervention even if assad uses chemical weapons?

yes, of course. intervention should be opposed even if it turns out assad's forces used chemical weapons.

that said, it makes perfect sense to focus on the fact that assad's chemical weapons use has not been conclusively proven and that launching a war based on the current evidence would be illogical in addition to being imperialist. the argument really overlaps with principled anti-interventionism by presenting the case that imperialist wars tend to be based on false assumptions and outright fabrication by their very nature.

elemennop posted:

getfiscal posted:

it's weird how americans sort of pretend that sewer lines and electrical are some sort of optional thing that you can fuck around with to annoy people. in reality when you hit those systems then like a billion people die.



well, not just like random people, but mostly people like my sickly grandfather who can't get treatment for his cancer, not like people of high military value.

'if i can't afford my medical treatment then why should Syrians' is a respectable and defensible position for an american to hold imo

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

elemennop posted:

getfiscal posted:

it's weird how americans sort of pretend that sewer lines and electrical are some sort of optional thing that you can fuck around with to annoy people. in reality when you hit those systems then like a billion people die.



well, not just like random people, but mostly people like my sickly grandfather who can't get treatment for his cancer, not like people of high military value.

'if i can't afford my medical treatment then why should Syrians' is a respectable and defensible position for an american to hold imo

can you not flippantly support the murder of innocent people even if it's "ironic" and really "Funny" and "cool"

Last Wednesday, in the hours after a horrific chemical attack east of Damascus, an official at the Syrian Ministry of Defense exchanged panicked phone calls with a leader of a chemical weapons unit, demanding answers for a nerve agent strike that killed more than 1,000 people. Those conversations were overheard by U.S. intelligence services, The Cable has learned. And that is the major reason why American officials now say they're certain that the attacks were the work of the Bashar al-Assad regime -- and why the U.S. military is likely to attack that regime in a matter of days.

But the intercept raises questions about culpability for the chemical massacre, even as it answers others: Was the attack on Aug. 21 the work of a Syrian officer overstepping his bounds? Or was the strike explicitly directed by senior members of the Assad regime? "It's unclear where control lies," one U.S. intelligence official told The Cable. "Is there just some sort of general blessing to use these things? Or are there explicit orders for each attack?"

Nor are U.S. analysts sure of the Syrian military's rationale for launching the strike -- if it had a rationale at all. Perhaps it was a lone general putting a long-standing battle plan in motion; perhaps it was a miscalculation by the Assad government. Whatever the reason, the attack has triggered worldwide outrage, and put the Obama administration on the brink of launching a strike of its own in Syria. "We don't know exactly why it happened," the intelligence official added. "We just know it was pretty fucking stupid."

American intelligence analysts are certain that chemical weapons were used on Aug. 21 -- the captured phone calls, combined with local doctors' accounts and video documentation of the tragedy -- are considered proof positive. That is why the U.S. government, from the president on down, has been unequivocal in its declarations that the Syrian military gassed thousands of civilians in the East Ghouta region.

is there any doubt that we're gonna bomb them at this point

Hitler posted:

"Is there just some sort of general blessing to use these things? Or are there explicit orders for each attack?"

they took a page out of the american military playbook and just told the guys "kill anything you see"

Hitler posted:

Was the attack on Aug. 21 the work of a Syrian officer overstepping his bounds?

he pulled a bunny calvin

MarxUltor posted:

as soon as they weren't jesus loving white people there was never any doubt that the united states of america would bomb them and kill them.

iraq 84-88. and its not just cuz tariq aziz was christian.

but really the only reason we'd be attacking is to level the playing field between rebels and govt so the bloodshed goes on longer leaving syria a non-actor for as long as possible. *hi5 for bloodshed*

Hitler posted:

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/27/exclusive_us_spies_say_intercepted_calls_prove_syrias_army_used_nerve_gas

Last Wednesday, in the hours after a horrific chemical attack east of Damascus, an official at the Syrian Ministry of Defense exchanged panicked phone calls with a leader of a chemical weapons unit, demanding answers for a nerve agent strike that killed more than 1,000 people. Those conversations were overheard by U.S. intelligence services, The Cable has learned. And that is the major reason why American officials now say they're certain that the attacks were the work of the Bashar al-Assad regime -- and why the U.S. military is likely to attack that regime in a matter of days.

But the intercept raises questions about culpability for the chemical massacre, even as it answers others: Was the attack on Aug. 21 the work of a Syrian officer overstepping his bounds? Or was the strike explicitly directed by senior members of the Assad regime? "It's unclear where control lies," one U.S. intelligence official told The Cable. "Is there just some sort of general blessing to use these things? Or are there explicit orders for each attack?"

Nor are U.S. analysts sure of the Syrian military's rationale for launching the strike -- if it had a rationale at all. Perhaps it was a lone general putting a long-standing battle plan in motion; perhaps it was a miscalculation by the Assad government. Whatever the reason, the attack has triggered worldwide outrage, and put the Obama administration on the brink of launching a strike of its own in Syria. "We don't know exactly why it happened," the intelligence official added. "We just know it was pretty fucking stupid."

American intelligence analysts are certain that chemical weapons were used on Aug. 21 -- the captured phone calls, combined with local doctors' accounts and video documentation of the tragedy -- are considered proof positive. That is why the U.S. government, from the president on down, has been unequivocal in its declarations that the Syrian military gassed thousands of civilians in the East Ghouta region.

i mean why WOULDNT Assad use the one thing that absolutely guarantees automatic American military intervention against him and assuring the utter impossibility of his victory, instead of simply continuing to use the massive fuel-air bombs which are actually much more effective at killing large numbers of his enemies while causing relatively little to no additional pearl-clutching international furor? its just good strategy

From: xXxTheLionAssadxXx@hushmail.com
To: JulianAssange@wikileaks.com
CC: Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, Al-Nusra, Muslim Brotherhood, jewhunter93

We did it. We used gas. I ordered the use of the gas. Me. I ordered my soldiers to use gas against those people. I did it, me did, i gas, me gas man, he i what did bad thing. This is a confession, and i DARE those American pussies to do anything about it!!!!

xxCraigxx posted:

Things are getting pretty syrias