babyfinland posted:by "not running away fast enough" do you mean approaching zimmerman and then sitting on his chest and hitting him in the face
no
55% black acquittals vs. 53% white on stand your ground
Edited by Superabound ()
swampman posted:The blue bar in the "white on black column" cannot be the average of the SYG and non-SYG sets, while also being less than each sets' respective average.... right?
sorry, cant help you there. i dont *see* color
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/18/bill-cosby-tv-dad-says-no-way-proving-george-zimme/
SariBari posted:you can't prove that a rapey fucking asshole who had only reported 5 other black males in the past was racist. proof's in the puddin'!!!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/18/bill-cosby-tv-dad-says-no-way-proving-george-zimme/
"By the time you are 12 you could be having sex with your grandmother"- Actual Bill Cosby quote.
The sequestration of the jury that ultimately acquitted George Zimmerman cost Florida taxpayers about $33,000 and allowed jurors creature comforts such as dinner at Outback Steakhouse, a bowling excursion and a trip to the Ripley's Believe It or Not! museum.
The Seminole County sheriff's office said in a statement that during the sequestration, "Jurors had individual rooms and convened regularly in a suite for meals and to socialize."
The all-female jury of six was sequestered beginning on Friday, June 21, and spent 22 nights at the Marriott in Lake Mary, Fla.
"Jurors watched television and movies, exercised at the hotel fitness center, and spent weekends being visited by family and friends," the sheriff's statement said, noting that jurors could also request visits from members of the religious community. Anyone visiting members of the jury were asked to sign an agreement indicating they would not discuss the case with the jury member.
Most breakfasts and dinners were provided through the hotel. Jurors dined out a couple of times: at Outback Steakhouse in Sanford and at Amigo's in Altamonte Springs. Dinner was also brought in from Giovanni's in Lake Mary. Lunches typically took place at the courthouse with lunch brought in from area restaurants. The group went out for lunch twice, both times to Senior Tequila's in Winter Springs.
"Jurors also enjoyed several evening and weekend excursions to include bowling, shopping at the Volusia Mall, a day and dinner in St. Augustine (to include a visit to the Ripley's Believe It or Not Museum), manicures and pedicures, and watching fireworks on the fourth of July," the sheriff's office reported. "Jurors also went to the movies to see "World War Z" and "The Lone Ranger. All movies viewed were preapproved by the court."
Lawyers and legal experts said that although some of the expenses — such as pedicures — might initially seem luxurious, the cost and the amenities provided were not unreasonable.
"It certainly seems reasonable to me that a woman would desire a bit of personal grooming over 22 days," said Randy Reep, a Florida attorney. "Going to the movies and having basic levels of entertainment — I cannot see Ripley's to be extravagant — seems very reasonable over three weeks."
Reep added, "These women of course are not criminals, yet we took them from their families. While we did not say this then, now it is clear, half of the country is going to very vocally find fault with your dedicated effort. A Bloomin Onion at Outback would not adequately reimburse these women for the bitterness" some will level at them for their jury service.
Elizabeth Parker, a Florida criminal defense attorney and former assistant state prosecutor, said the $33,000 total cost sounds fair.
"When a jury is sequestered for a significant amount of time, like in this case, a judge has to be mindful of how their isolation from the outside world could affect them and could potentially affect their ability to be fair and impartial," Parker said.
"Allowing the woman to get manicures and pedicures or enjoying other activities is important to the mental well-being of these jurors who are in a very stressful situation. Imagine four weeks of being confined to a courtroom all day and a hotel room at night and on the weekend, without any freedom or independence."
Robert Hirschhorn, a jury consultant who was instrumental in helping George Zimmerman's defense team pick an all-female jury, said $33,000 in sequestration fees seemed low to him. The cost was a "small price to pay for the enormity of the task the jurors undertook," Hirschhorn said.
"They left their husbands, their children, their friends, their jobs, they were essentially 'imprisoned' for three weeks," he said of the jurors. "They could not watch what they wanted on TV, listen to the radio, read what they want in the newspaper or surf the Web."
With no court on weekends or holidays, jurors needed things to do, he added.
"Almost every sequestered jury gets some type of field trip to pass the time and distract them from the enormity of the task before them," Hirschhorn said.
then again im also a fan of extrajudicial killing based on the flimsiest of evidence so idk
HenryKrinkle posted:Superabound posted:
HenryKrinkle posted:
thanks to the SYG law Zimmerman is probably immune from civil lawsuits.
can they invoke SYG when it wasnt even claimed or used as a part of the previous trial?
actually, it was in the jury instructions.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/15/2301621/why-stand-your-ground-is-central-to-george-zimmermans-case-after-all/
http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Jury-Instructions
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
Hmmm nope wrong again Krink.
Some people have insisted that SYG was applied in the case as a defense through Judge Nelson’s jury instructions. This is understandable given the fact that the jury instructions state that there is no duty to retreat. The jury was told that if Zimmerman “was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed .”
However, the common law does not impose a duty to retreat. It preexisted the SYG law in most states. If it didn’t, hundreds of thousands of cases of self-defense would have had different results after people defended themselves rather than flee. Indeed, this is a point that I often made in opposing these laws: you already have the right to defend yourself and not to retreat. There are slight difference in the jury instruction among the states, including Florida, but the Zimmerman instructions reflected the general common law standard for self-defense and the justified use of force. If the President was referring to the no duty to retreat rule in his call for reform, he would have to change not the SYG laws but the common law in the majority of states. This has been a rule either through statute or common law for a long time. The change would require citizens to retreat or flee when attacked in most cases or lose the defense in the use of lethal force.
There has been much to do about the inclusion of an instruction that “If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find George Zimmerman not guilty.” That is also found in many states though some states have different burdens of proof. That is not a reflection of SYG immunity but a state preference in self-defense cases generally. As noted above, the legislation that included the immunity provision also adopted the common law rule on self-defense. You have no duty of retreat in many states that do not have a formal SYG law. Many people who may not like the immunity provision (barring criminal prosecution) would likely support the common law rule that, once attacked, you do not have to flee in order to claim self-defense in the use of lethal force. Note that in cases of non-lethal force, there is no such rule even in retreat states and, under the common law, you must still show that your use of lethal force was commensurate with the threat.
Moreover, the jury verdict seemed to reflect its view of the fact in relation to the main charge of the instructions (a standard charge) on self defense that a defendant is “justified in using deadly force if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.” That is a standard that is used in the same basic form by all states that I know of.
This case turns on classic self-defense....
Moreover, for those who read the entire blog, the point was that the no retreat language in the instruction is not the invention of the SYG law but rather a common law rule (though Florida did once have a retreat rule). No retreat is the common law rule and the SYG language comes from common law cases. While the wording may differ from state to state, most states have always recognized the right to defend yourself without having an obligation to flee or retreat in the face of an attack.
There has been much to do about the inclusion of an instruction that “If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find George Zimmerman not guilty.”
so is this a state-specific thing? i was under the impression that in any affirmative defense case the burden was not "reasonable doubt" but "preponderance of the evidence or clear and convincing evidence", and that it was held by the defense, not the prosecution
roseweird posted:well zimmerman probably should have been on trial for being a racist community watch volunteer who stalked a black kid for no reason other than that he doesn't like black kids but the problem is that is not technically illegal. like, the trial was about whether what he did was technically self-defense, legally speaking, and i guess under florida law it was, but the trial should have been about why he seemed so eager to get an opportunity to use his gun in self-defense, since he was driving around at night, carrying a gun, looking for (black) people
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/ADD---ADHD/Can-adderall-cause-paranoia/show/402513
By cactus19 | Jan 12, 2008
Well for the last couple of months, I've just noticed that I become really paranoid in public, more specifically, times that I may feel threatened or nervous. An example of the worst it gets: I carry a knife everywhere I go, I made it a habit a while ago for cutting boxes at work and because I'd have to walk home after work, but that was over the summer, and I quit because of school. So there's no need for a knife, but I still feel like I need some form of protection. I've even kept it in my front coat pocket so I could grab it easily if needed-- the weird thing is that I get that feeling even when I'm just around friends who act a little suspicious. Or just walking somewhere, or when I'm out somewhere and a group of people are walking by.... At home, if I'm the only person there and it seems like a car is parked outside waiting, or people are standing on the sidewalk infront of the house, ANY suspicious activity, I usually grab a gun and can't concentrate on whatever I'm doing cause I'm too busy listening for a door to open or something....
I wanted to explain that first, so here's all the facts and stuff:
Switched from Ritalin to Adderall (adderrall) about 4 months ago, started on 20mg XR. I stopped noticing the effects of it, and told my psychiatrist, and she gave me a scrip for 10mg IR to take with the XR. Then about a month ago I mentioned that I've been getting distracted easily at school, so now I'm on 30mg XR/10mg IR everyday. For the record, I'm 6'1"/220 lbs, a pretty big guy... I only say that cause I know body weight has alot to do with med dosages.
Other medications: clonazepam (not daily, only as needed for anxiety... usually like 3 or 4 days out of the week) -- Ambien for sleep obviously
I exercise almost every day, smoke some pot at night occasionally- sometimes recreationally and sometimes just to get to sleep. I take vitamins, fish oil when I remember, sometimes take pepcid or whatever is around the house for heartburn... No medical problems besides sleep and occasional social anxiety, but the anxiety has gone down alot over the last year. Except for the incidences I'm talking about. And I only see my psychiatrist for medication refills/check-ins, it's only a 20 minute appointment and I never have anything big to talk about, but I only started seeing a psychiatrist b/c of the anxiety last year, which like I said, has gone down alot.
But these paranoia attack-type things are alot different than anxiety, I get alot of adrenaline when I feel like this... and I tend to try to get somewhere where I feel safer, which is making very bad changes in my social life. I feel like telling my psychiatrist next time I have an appt. but I don't want it to be mistaken for depression or anything... I took all types of anti-depressants for anxiety, and none helped, all of them made things worse, until she bumped me up to a benzodiazepine... So I reallllllllly don't want to be put on antidepressants of any type, eh... I'm not really sure how to describe but whatever.
I mean can the adderall (adderrall) cause these types of side-effects? And if not, what could be? I guess I also need to know if this is something to get checked out immediately, I have no clue how serious this is....
Thanks-
cactus19
Jan 17, 2008
To: all
well thanks for the responses....
I do exercise alot actually, I know 220 sounds overweight but I've been lifting for about 5 years (im 17). And I get cardio when I can, lol to say the least, running in arizona isnt that fun. But I skateboard pretty often and play dance dance revolution obsessively in spare-time.
As for the knife, I really don't know why I carry it anymore, when I worked I had good reason for it cuz of boxes and alot of other things. And I would assume 6'1"/220lbs is a little intimidating to most people so in my mind, I know I don't need a knife.. and I've been in plenty of fights and never lost, but my most recent fight (4-5 months ago) was a 2-on-1 which I guess might be why I feel I need a weapon... a few of my friends have been jumped and put into the hospital over stupid s***, and I don't like that to happen. If people I'm hanging out with are arguing (the kind that looks like it'll end up in a fight) I always get between them and shut em up.
But it's not always just my safety that i'm paranoid about, I feel like I can't trust anyone at anytime... Not even my best friend or my parents, I'm always thinking that somebody will steal from me, start a fight, start talkin s***, all kinds of stupid stuff that makes no sense to me when I get home and think about it.
I'm wondering if the clonazepam could have something to do with it... cause I've been using it for about 10 months, off/on, and now I usually only take it on weekdays when I go to school. So idk maybe the monday-friday use causes withdrawals on saturday/sunday? I really dont know but im pretty sure paranoia is a benzo withdrawal symptom.
and ive been thinking alot about the adderall (adderrall), and if it really is causing these problems, i guess im gonna stop, but I really dont want to. It's sort of helped me get over a couple sleep disorders, temporarily atleast (delayed sleep phase syndrome, insomnia that's been on/off for 3 years, and mild obstructive sleep apnea)... The sleep apnea I think went away on its own, I honestly don't know b/c even if I did wake up in the middle of the night, I wouldnt remember it b/c of the ambien. my delayed circadian rhythm is extremely confusing for me and a neurologist that specializes in sleep medicine, all I've found that works temporarily is either marijuana or heavy sedation (i used to take 20mg ambien), and still occasionally take diphenhydramine HCI with the ambien if i can't get to sleep after an hour of laying in bed.
hah alot of information, but the point I was trying to get across is that the "crash" or come-down from the adderall (adderrall) almost always makes me tired at night, which really hasnt happened over the last couple years, except of course after starting on adderall (adderrall). And like i said, i exercise as well, so that helps my body be tired as well as my mind.
and in all honesty, i can't concentrate in school for 1 minute without some kind of stimulant, I used to take ritalin but that was definitely interfering with sleep, and i didnt feel concerta at all, so after those 2, adderall (adderrall) helped in many ways. My school record has been terrible until i started on it, and that's something I don't want to risk, unless it does become serious.
hmm and i called the psychiatrists office today, they said my appt is 2 weeks from today, so not much help.
Avatar_n_tn
cactus19
Feb 10, 2008
To: whomever
well, things arent getting any better, in fact, its indescribable now..
i've been extremely paranoid about everything to the point where i cant do anything without thinking "what if" + 'every possible scenario for every possible situation'.... not just things that are illegal or things my parents wouldnt like, or things that might have a consequence, i mean everything i do, at every second.
and tonight didnt help much, either it was a deliberate attack, or possibly a prank, but somebody decided to pound on our front door then run away. and ever since, every car that drives by the house, every one of our pets that makes a noise, every appliance that turns on/off, every noise or scenario i can imagine, scares the living hell out of me, and makes my body pump adrenaline non-stop, which has been going on since 11pm, and its now 5:30am and i havent been able to even close my eyes when i try to get to sleep.
i took an ambien at 10, planning on going to bed, but that didn't make me feel sleepy at all. i do feel tired, but my brain is going nuts and i cant shut it off, then my heart starts racing whenever i hear something. and ive taken 3mg of clonazepam (i have a prescription, its not illegal incase you were wondering) so far tonight, but those havent helped at all. and 3mg is alot, after downing 3mg i shouldnt even care if somebody was holding a gun to my head... but, everything is scaring me. and any noise at all, loud or soft, makes me sort of jolt and completely drop whatever i was doing.
and i feel trapped in my bedroom, so after my parents/brother went to bed, i've been patrolling the house with a .45ACP every time i hear a somewhat loud/strange noise, thinking it's somebody breaking into the house. so i check every inch of the house, carefully peek out every window to see if anyones outside, then go back to my room and try to sleep. but then 10-20 minutes later, i have to repeat the entire thing. its almost like im afraid to fall asleep because i think something is gonna happen while im asleep. if i dont do my 'patrol' (this has only happened tonight by the way), i increasingly feel trapped and doomed, and it seems like the only way to survive is to take out "the people" that are "after" me.
im sure theres more, but i cant remember, i havent slept in 22 hours and my brain is only concentrating on my surroundings.
so basically its been an anxiety/panic attack thats lasted 6 hours or something like that, ive noticed that a blood vessel in my eyelid is twitching (only happens when i take too much adderall (adderrall) when im incredibly tired, and also happened the couple of times i tried cocaine last year)... all of which confuses me.
but the strangest thing is, the panic attacks get extremely unbearable and i become practically insane for 5-10 minutes. for instance, i called my best friend and started accusing him of doing that thing earlier tonight, and barely spoke clear english the whole conversation, and i was a total ******* to him, which is now making me feel like ****. and another instance tonight, i posted a myspace bulletin that was about 5 paragraphs explaining how i'd kill anyone who tries to do that again, and a bunch of other stuff, but one of my friends replied to the bulletin, and i didnt even remember writing it.... but i deleted it after a couple hours when i went back on the computer... but i re-read it before deleting it and it makes my anxiety skyrocket thinking about how my friends probably think im insane and i doubt most of them will talk to me again (assuming they read the bulletin)...
the worst part, honestly, is that it feels like i'm losing it... and by "it", i mean my mind. I honestly feel like I'm going insane, and theres no way i can have a normal life if things continue like this, which has obviously only gotten worse and worse everyday. but i know crazy people don't know they're crazy, so im even more confused and worried.
i try to think positive and do deep breathing and all kinds of techniques to reduce anxiety, but nothing affects me at all. i try the 'mindstate' of "oh well thats b.s., nothing like that would happen, chill out, stop worrying, that can't happen, honestly what are the odds of that happening, etc.... but none of that does anything, my mind just reverts back to doom mode.
and i hate to say it, but tonight ive been feeling like i HAVE to end this one way or another, but its impossible to "stop" a non-existant threat. and then i get brief thoughts of just stopping this altogether... by that i mean suicide. but i'm catholic, and i obviously believe that i'd go to hell for eternity if i did. but its unbearable....... ive never contemplated suicide, and i deep-down and 100% against it and highly doubt i ever would, but these moments just throw all that out the window and make it seem like a simple solution.....please dont be concerned about that, i just mentioned it because im worried that (since these attacks constantly increase), maybe one day i'll jsut completely break down and go into an insane state once again, and even do it.... im so confused, honestly. and im a tough guy, ive had alot of struggles in my life that ive fought through by myself, not only alone, but friends, peers, and parents making it worse. and while writing this, ive shed a few tears while thinking about my current state.... its embarrassing for me to say, but thinking about this makes me wonder whats gonna happen, and i get the feeling that the outcome will be quite unfavorable.
i really need help, please, if you read this, say something, really anything. i do apologize though if some of this is hard to understand, but im pretty sedated at the moment, sleep deprived, and cant concentrate worth s**t . if i ever fall asleep, hopefully ill feel better in the morning.
(ps. my psychiatrist only does 20 min. apptmnts so i dont really get to discuss everything with her, or sometimes just dont remember to bring something up. but if i wanted to really talk about something with a long story and many questions (from both of us), it really isnt possible in 20 minutes. but i feel i need some kindof professional help, although i dont want to be put on antipsychotics of any type, and i've taken antidepressants but i didnt really like that too much, but i guess i could try it again and see... idk.
I DONT KNOWWWW
sorry
Superabound posted:There has been much to do about the inclusion of an instruction that “If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find George Zimmerman not guilty.”
so is this a state-specific thing? i was under the impression that in any affirmative defense case the burden was not "reasonable doubt" but "preponderance of the evidence or clear and convincing evidence", and that it was held by the defense, not the prosecution
yes, it is state specific and can go either way, depending on the state and the defense. prosecutors can be held to the burden of disproving an affirmative defense beyond a reasonable doubt after the defense provides a scintilla of evidence or the defendant can be held to proving the affirmative defense by a preponderance or clear and convincing evidence
roseweird posted:superabound why did you post all that about adderall, it's a sad story, i hope cactus19 is ok
cactus19 is alive and well, having been found Not Guilty by a 6 person jury of his victim's natural born enemies
Superabound posted:
my expertise
oh well, zimmerman is still a free man, still in stanford, and like a boss, still not staying in his car until the
police arrive
roseweird posted:i also believe there is a meaningful connection between stimulant use and aggression, i don't think adderall made zimmerman specifically paranoid about black men though
what is the meaningfulness of specificity re: amphetamine psychosis induced murder
harass posted:
my expertiseand extensive trainingin statistical analysis allows me to observe this graph is a piece of shit and should hang in the propaganda hall of shame. comparing a large sample against a tiny one will produce extremes and is well within the statistical margin of error.
oh well, zimmerman is still a free man, still in stanford, and like a boss, still not staying in his car until the
observe my balls
roseweird posted:Superabound posted:what is the meaningfulness of specificity re: amphetamine psychosis induced murder
well you can ask, "would trayvon martin be alive if george zimmerman was not fucked up on amphetamines?" and i think the answer is probably "yes", but if you ask "would trayvon martin be alive if george zimmerman was fucked up on amphetamines but locked himself in his room playing sims 3 on his laptop 19 hours per day instead of obsessing over black men" then the answer is also "yes".
sooo....mandatory imprisonment for all drug users?
harass posted:
my expertiseand extensive trainingin statistical analysis allows me to observe this graph is a piece of shit and should hang in the propaganda hall of shame. comparing a large sample against a tiny one will produce extremes and is well within the statistical margin of error.
oh well, zimmerman is still a free man, still in stanford, and like a boss, still not staying in his car until the
cry abou oh wait you already are
Superabound posted:harass posted:
my expertiseand extensive trainingin statistical analysis allows me to observe this graph is a piece of shit and should hang in the propaganda hall of shame. comparing a large sample against a tiny one will produce extremes and is well within the statistical margin of error.
oh well, zimmerman is still a free man, still in stanford, and like a boss, still not staying in his car until theobserve my balls
present them
i possess expertise and extensive training in observational physics