getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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As atonement with baby finland here's a real thread.
The NDP is a federal Canadian political party that is home to most of Canada's left-wing. It originated from democratic socialist roots and today is a moderate center-left party. In the May 2011 general election, it won 30% of the popular vote and a third of seats in the House of Commons. This was largely because of the popularity of its leader, Jack Layton, in particular in Quebec, where the party won the large majority of seats, devastating the once-popular Bloc Quebecois. This "orange surge" also displaced the Liberal Party of Canada, which has become a small third-place moderate party presently under a former Ontario NDP leader (Bob Rae). The NDP is now the Official Opposition against Harper's Conservative majority government.
The NDP has never led a government in Canada, but it has controlled many provinces. Some of these are considered well-run moderate governments, like in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and now Nova Scotia. Others, like British Columbia and Ontario, are largely seen as problematic due to mistakes in governing. The NDP currently holds power in Manitoba and Nova Scotia, and is the official opposition in Saskatchewan and British Columbia In Ontario, they are currently polling around 20% in the ongoing election campaign.
From March 2003 until quite recently, Jack Layton was leader of the federal party, and led the NDP from around 20-odd seats to over 100 in four election campaigns (due to minority governments, there were four elections in less than a decade). Jack Layton died of cancer and is being replaced in a March 2012 convention which will be one-member-one-vote. It is expected that the next leader will speak French well given that the party is now powerful in Quebec and because of the demands on a Prime Minister. Layton's widow, Olivia Chow, has said she will stay out of the race. The next federal election will probably be in spring of 2015.
Probable issues in the race:
- Whether the NDP should merge with the Liberals to present a united left against the Conservatives.
- Whether the NDP should shift left or right to win power.
- Relationship between the NDP and the labour movement.
- Relationship between Quebec and Canada.
- Stance on military and war, such as the Libya intervention.
- Proper response to government austerity.
- Stance on whether the NDP should identify as "socialist" in party documents (it currently does).
So far, only one candidate has officially announced, and that is Brian Topp, who is presently President of the NDP. He is a campaign strategist and political insider who worked for people like former NDP leader Ed Broadbent and Premier Ray Romanow in Saskatchewan. Broadbent endorsed him at his launch today. Topp recently said that the PASOK government in Greece is an example of a government he supports, which suggests to me that he is on the right of the party, which includes many anticuts people. Topp is not a sitting MP, and has no direct electoral or governing experience.
Another candidate from the relative right of the party is Thomas Mulcair, who was instrumental in the Quebec "orange wave" and was the party's first recent MP in Quebec. He formerly worked (tensely) under the Liberal Party of Quebec as a Minister of the Environment. He pushed a very pro-Quebec agenda under Layton and was his Quebec lieutenant. Given the vast size of the Quebec caucus, this might contribute to his possible victory, especially because it is one-member-one-vote so he doesn't have to span the country.
It is likely that there will be a candidate who will run on a pro-cooperation-with-Liberals platform. Pat Martin, on the right of the party, supports this move and will run as this candidate if no one else does.
Peggy Nash is a possible candidate formerly of the labour movement that might seek to run as the main center-left candidate in the race. She said she is considering it. A number of minor and relatively young other MPs might also run from the somewhat center-left. There will probably also be a minor socialist candidate, but most self-described socialists will probably adhere to a bigger campaign.
The NDP is a federal Canadian political party that is home to most of Canada's left-wing. It originated from democratic socialist roots and today is a moderate center-left party. In the May 2011 general election, it won 30% of the popular vote and a third of seats in the House of Commons. This was largely because of the popularity of its leader, Jack Layton, in particular in Quebec, where the party won the large majority of seats, devastating the once-popular Bloc Quebecois. This "orange surge" also displaced the Liberal Party of Canada, which has become a small third-place moderate party presently under a former Ontario NDP leader (Bob Rae). The NDP is now the Official Opposition against Harper's Conservative majority government.
The NDP has never led a government in Canada, but it has controlled many provinces. Some of these are considered well-run moderate governments, like in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and now Nova Scotia. Others, like British Columbia and Ontario, are largely seen as problematic due to mistakes in governing. The NDP currently holds power in Manitoba and Nova Scotia, and is the official opposition in Saskatchewan and British Columbia In Ontario, they are currently polling around 20% in the ongoing election campaign.
From March 2003 until quite recently, Jack Layton was leader of the federal party, and led the NDP from around 20-odd seats to over 100 in four election campaigns (due to minority governments, there were four elections in less than a decade). Jack Layton died of cancer and is being replaced in a March 2012 convention which will be one-member-one-vote. It is expected that the next leader will speak French well given that the party is now powerful in Quebec and because of the demands on a Prime Minister. Layton's widow, Olivia Chow, has said she will stay out of the race. The next federal election will probably be in spring of 2015.
Probable issues in the race:
- Whether the NDP should merge with the Liberals to present a united left against the Conservatives.
- Whether the NDP should shift left or right to win power.
- Relationship between the NDP and the labour movement.
- Relationship between Quebec and Canada.
- Stance on military and war, such as the Libya intervention.
- Proper response to government austerity.
- Stance on whether the NDP should identify as "socialist" in party documents (it currently does).
So far, only one candidate has officially announced, and that is Brian Topp, who is presently President of the NDP. He is a campaign strategist and political insider who worked for people like former NDP leader Ed Broadbent and Premier Ray Romanow in Saskatchewan. Broadbent endorsed him at his launch today. Topp recently said that the PASOK government in Greece is an example of a government he supports, which suggests to me that he is on the right of the party, which includes many anticuts people. Topp is not a sitting MP, and has no direct electoral or governing experience.
Another candidate from the relative right of the party is Thomas Mulcair, who was instrumental in the Quebec "orange wave" and was the party's first recent MP in Quebec. He formerly worked (tensely) under the Liberal Party of Quebec as a Minister of the Environment. He pushed a very pro-Quebec agenda under Layton and was his Quebec lieutenant. Given the vast size of the Quebec caucus, this might contribute to his possible victory, especially because it is one-member-one-vote so he doesn't have to span the country.
It is likely that there will be a candidate who will run on a pro-cooperation-with-Liberals platform. Pat Martin, on the right of the party, supports this move and will run as this candidate if no one else does.
Peggy Nash is a possible candidate formerly of the labour movement that might seek to run as the main center-left candidate in the race. She said she is considering it. A number of minor and relatively young other MPs might also run from the somewhat center-left. There will probably also be a minor socialist candidate, but most self-described socialists will probably adhere to a bigger campaign.
badcrumble
badcrumble
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Getfiscal, can I publish this on the front page? You have to edit it and check the box that makes it publishable, so if so, please do so and say the word. Pity reply, btw.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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naw i don't really wanna frontpage it but thanks
and thanks for the pity reply
and thanks for the pity reply
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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NDP releases rules:
- The next leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada will be selected at a leadership convention in Toronto on March 24, 2012.
- All NDP members as of February 18, 2012 will be eligible to vote. It will be a one-member one-vote election. The NDP Federal Council did not revisit the decision of the 2006 NDP convention that established one-member one-vote.
- Each leadership candidate must also pay a registration fee of $15,000 to the New Democratic Party.
- The spending limit for this leadership race will be $500,000 per candidate.
(to compare, the liberal party of canada set a $3.4 million spending cap in their 2006 leadership campaign, and a $50,000 entrance fee.)
- The next leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada will be selected at a leadership convention in Toronto on March 24, 2012.
- All NDP members as of February 18, 2012 will be eligible to vote. It will be a one-member one-vote election. The NDP Federal Council did not revisit the decision of the 2006 NDP convention that established one-member one-vote.
- Each leadership candidate must also pay a registration fee of $15,000 to the New Democratic Party.
- The spending limit for this leadership race will be $500,000 per candidate.
(to compare, the liberal party of canada set a $3.4 million spending cap in their 2006 leadership campaign, and a $50,000 entrance fee.)
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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If I had to seriously pick a candidate today based on things like:
- possibility of winning leadership
- leans to the left of the party (doesn't support austerity)
- bilingual
- strong life and political experience
- can plausibly hold quebec in the ndp fold
Then welp I have no idea. Mulcair is probably the safest candidate but he would probably pull even closer to the center. I think Brian Topp is probably a terrible choice. The only person I think could beat those two is maybe Peggy Nash or as a wildcard, Romeo Saganash. It'd be pretty cool having a leader of the opposition who was Cree. Just imagine the seething racism.
- possibility of winning leadership
- leans to the left of the party (doesn't support austerity)
- bilingual
- strong life and political experience
- can plausibly hold quebec in the ndp fold
Then welp I have no idea. Mulcair is probably the safest candidate but he would probably pull even closer to the center. I think Brian Topp is probably a terrible choice. The only person I think could beat those two is maybe Peggy Nash or as a wildcard, Romeo Saganash. It'd be pretty cool having a leader of the opposition who was Cree. Just imagine the seething racism.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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Here's Brian Topp saying that the NDP is part of a sensible third-way alternative like Greek PASOK, UK New Labour, German SPD
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/brian-topp/from-vancouver-to-athens-sensible-alternatives-to-conservative-misrule/article2083405/page2/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/brian-topp/from-vancouver-to-athens-sensible-alternatives-to-conservative-misrule/article2083405/page2/
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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damn saganash endorsed brian topp sigh
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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mulcair was endorsed by 4 quebec mps today although he is building his campaign before he launches.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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Found this from today:
Thomas Mulcair révéla une des raisons pour lesquelles il est très solidaire du peuple juif et de l’État d’Israël.
“Ma femme, Catherine Pinhas, née en France et dont la famille est d’origine turque, est une descendante des Sépharades expulsés d’Espagne en 1492. Nous, quand on pense à 1492, on pense à Christophe Colomb et à son arrivée en Amérique. Mais, pour les Juifs sépharades, 1492 évoque leur expulsion d’Espagne par les Rois catholiques. Un des gestes les plus gracieux que j’ai vus en politique au cours de ma vie a eu lieu, en 1992, quand le Roi Juan Carlos Ier d’Espagne est allé demander pardon aux Juifs dans une synagogue de Madrid. Mes beaux-parents sont des survivants de l’Holocauste. Leur histoire fait partie de mon quotidien. C’est pourquoi je suis un ardent supporter de toutes les instances et de toutes les circonstances d’Israël.”
Thomas Mulcair révéla une des raisons pour lesquelles il est très solidaire du peuple juif et de l’État d’Israël.
“Ma femme, Catherine Pinhas, née en France et dont la famille est d’origine turque, est une descendante des Sépharades expulsés d’Espagne en 1492. Nous, quand on pense à 1492, on pense à Christophe Colomb et à son arrivée en Amérique. Mais, pour les Juifs sépharades, 1492 évoque leur expulsion d’Espagne par les Rois catholiques. Un des gestes les plus gracieux que j’ai vus en politique au cours de ma vie a eu lieu, en 1992, quand le Roi Juan Carlos Ier d’Espagne est allé demander pardon aux Juifs dans une synagogue de Madrid. Mes beaux-parents sont des survivants de l’Holocauste. Leur histoire fait partie de mon quotidien. C’est pourquoi je suis un ardent supporter de toutes les instances et de toutes les circonstances d’Israël.”
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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Saganash apparently just told NDP people he is running for the leadership.
What?
Now I checked the article that said he endorsed Topp (in French) and it changed to saying that he just "probably" will support him haha
What?
Now I checked the article that said he endorsed Topp (in French) and it changed to saying that he just "probably" will support him haha
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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The aboriginal leader is well-known in Quebec, in particular for his activism on issues surrounding Quebec sovereignty, and his support for the potential partitioning of the province in the event of a referendum result in favour of Quebec's independence.
lol no thanks
lol no thanks
aerdil
aerdil
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sounds like the only way to win is to not play the bourgeois democratic game
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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aerdil posted:
sounds like the only way to win is to not play the bourgeois democratic game
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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brian topp got (former sask premier) roy romanow's endorsement yesterday. that's a pretty huge endorsement but the guy worked for romanow so whatever.
mulcair is trying to build a juggernaut so that he'll announce with like a whole slew of MPs and people will be like "welp he's got it wrapped up" basically.
peter julian has a few people's support too so we'll see what happens.
mulcair is trying to build a juggernaut so that he'll announce with like a whole slew of MPs and people will be like "welp he's got it wrapped up" basically.
peter julian has a few people's support too so we'll see what happens.
mistersix
mistersix
desire be, desire go
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getfiscal posted:aerdil posted:
sounds like the only way to win is to not play the bourgeois democratic game
lol where is that from. does this miraculous vision appear in the real world somewhere
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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I found it on google image search.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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two popular left-wing mps said they wont' run for the top job: libby davies (no french) and megan leslie (too young).
chantal hebert has been hatin' on the ndp and she says that the party is too weighted outside quebec. like there are as many saskatchewan ndp members as quebec ones right now she says. so she thinks a weighed-by-riding membership model would work better, but they already set the rules long ago so welp, she thinks it is an insult to quebec or whatever. i actually like the weighted-by-riding model, it encourages people to organize outside their comfort zone, and i thought the same thing (in less dramatic terms) about the current system. but like there is no substitute for just driving those membership numbers.
chantal hebert has been hatin' on the ndp and she says that the party is too weighted outside quebec. like there are as many saskatchewan ndp members as quebec ones right now she says. so she thinks a weighed-by-riding membership model would work better, but they already set the rules long ago so welp, she thinks it is an insult to quebec or whatever. i actually like the weighted-by-riding model, it encourages people to organize outside their comfort zone, and i thought the same thing (in less dramatic terms) about the current system. but like there is no substitute for just driving those membership numbers.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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here are the pre-race NDP membership numbers apparently:
quebec: 1,695
BC: ~30,000
Ontario: 22,225
Manitoba: 10,307
Alberta: 9,033
Sask: 8,029
Atlantic: lower
so basically western canada is a goldmine for leadership candidates and quebec is completely off the map despite the ndp only having a smattering of MPs in western canada and the vast majority of quebec's seats. so even though mulcair is considered by many of the quebec mps to be the "natural" pick, he will have to convince a bunch of british columbians that he's the right person. seeing this, a few BC candidates might emerge in the race.
quebec: 1,695
BC: ~30,000
Ontario: 22,225
Manitoba: 10,307
Alberta: 9,033
Sask: 8,029
Atlantic: lower
so basically western canada is a goldmine for leadership candidates and quebec is completely off the map despite the ndp only having a smattering of MPs in western canada and the vast majority of quebec's seats. so even though mulcair is considered by many of the quebec mps to be the "natural" pick, he will have to convince a bunch of british columbians that he's the right person. seeing this, a few BC candidates might emerge in the race.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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here's my wild fun prediction for canadian politics:
- Muclair announces with a bunch of Quebec MPs behind him. However, the ensuing campaign is tilted to the West and Ontario, with Mulcair unable to sell Quebec memberships en masse or make a convincing case that the party newcomer can be trusted, especially with the whisper campaign that he is a jerk.
- The new NDP leader is based in a riding outside Quebec and is not well-known in the province.
- Marc Garneau is elected leader of the Liberals in 2013.
- In the bloodbath of the 2013 Quebec election, the Parti Quebecois wins a narrow plurality of seats in a three-way race and forms government with the support of conservative Legault's CAQ.
- The election of the PQ government reinvigorates the Bloc, which switches leaders in 2014.
- The NDP loses a bunch of their Quebec seats and stalls in the rest of Canada.
- Quebec achieves freedom and Canada is ruled by Conservatives forever.
- Muclair announces with a bunch of Quebec MPs behind him. However, the ensuing campaign is tilted to the West and Ontario, with Mulcair unable to sell Quebec memberships en masse or make a convincing case that the party newcomer can be trusted, especially with the whisper campaign that he is a jerk.
- The new NDP leader is based in a riding outside Quebec and is not well-known in the province.
- Marc Garneau is elected leader of the Liberals in 2013.
- In the bloodbath of the 2013 Quebec election, the Parti Quebecois wins a narrow plurality of seats in a three-way race and forms government with the support of conservative Legault's CAQ.
- The election of the PQ government reinvigorates the Bloc, which switches leaders in 2014.
- The NDP loses a bunch of their Quebec seats and stalls in the rest of Canada.
- Quebec achieves freedom and Canada is ruled by Conservatives forever.
drwhat
drwhat
mt.real
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Everyone kind of hates Mulcair.
Pat Martin's the leftest of these hugely-right-of-the-party candidates, he's at least amusing, but I don't think he'll ever actually run.
It'll be Brian Topp and he'll be boring and liberal and eh and it sucks.
It's almost like... there is no alternative.
Pat Martin's the leftest of these hugely-right-of-the-party candidates, he's at least amusing, but I don't think he'll ever actually run.
It'll be Brian Topp and he'll be boring and liberal and eh and it sucks.
It's almost like... there is no alternative.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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maybe because centrism is "for the win" ?
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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also pat martin wants to "cooperate" with the liberals which would pull them right anyway.
drwhat
drwhat
mt.real
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no I know. there is no left anymore. it's ok. at least i have books
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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centrism isn't anti-left. it just is reasonable. gotta work with people, drwhat. work with people where they are, not where you want them to be.
aerdil
aerdil
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"Voters voting is like slaves filling out a 'suggestion box' for slavery." -Curt Kobain
Edited by aerdil ()
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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maybe talk to a doctor about your obvious mental illness if you think that a democratic system is like slavery. they even have supports to help you start a job.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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paul dewar is going to announce what's up on sunday, the lord's day. his qualifications to be prime minister include being a member of parliament for five years and not speaking fluent french.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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i might vote for mulcair because these fuckers be putzen (plural of putzes)
drwhat
drwhat
mt.real
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he has two bachelor's degrees, that's twice the qualification you need to be prime minister. and, whatever, french. he can muddle through.
you don't have to vote for him, but holy shit, don't vote for mulcair. what a shitheel. no one encounters him on tv, in print or in person who doesn't come away with "boy, i wish i could punch that motherfucker in the face."
grassroots western/prairie socialist types need someone to vote for, it will probably be like pat martin or something. at least he wears funny t-shirts.
you don't have to vote for him, but holy shit, don't vote for mulcair. what a shitheel. no one encounters him on tv, in print or in person who doesn't come away with "boy, i wish i could punch that motherfucker in the face."
grassroots western/prairie socialist types need someone to vote for, it will probably be like pat martin or something. at least he wears funny t-shirts.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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- a painting class
- a sports bar
- a church group
go to something like the above if you want to make a new friend.
if you want a prime minister? mulcair 2012.
- a sports bar
- a church group
go to something like the above if you want to make a new friend.
if you want a prime minister? mulcair 2012.
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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haha i know nothing about the people i'm not sure what i'll do
drwhat
drwhat
mt.real
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getfiscal posted:
if you want a prime minister? mulcair 2012.
"well, I'm not sure about the NDP but I voted for Jack because he's nice. now they have this mega-asshole fast-talking quebec lawyer guy with a beard and brown suits, so......."
i don't even understand the ndp anymore tbh. they completely took over the liberals' gig and are now centre as fuck, i don't understand why they don't just merge already so we can get around to making maybe an actual socialist party again
what a waste of time
getfiscal
getfiscal
Mike Nelson here.
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in 1997 alexa mcdunough ran on a campaign to reduce unemployment by 5 percentage points within one term. like incredible irresponsible hyper-keynesianism through a massive jobs program. what did the socialists say? fuck you alexa you're so right-wing. she got 11% of the vote.
jack layton runs on a moderate left platform and wins 30% of the vote.
hmm yeah let's start a socialist party and see what happens
jack layton runs on a moderate left platform and wins 30% of the vote.
hmm yeah let's start a socialist party and see what happens
shriekingviolet
shriekingviolet
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getfiscal posted:if you want a prime minister? mulcair 2012.
so i hear bumping old shameful things is in vogue right now
shriekingviolet
shriekingviolet
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drwhat posted:Everyone kind of hates Mulcair.
Everyone kind of hated him: The story of the Mulcair Miracle
aerdil
aerdil
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getfiscal posted:maybe talk to a doctor about your obvious mental illness if you think that a democratic system is like slavery. they even have supports to help you start a job.
wow this was mean, donald.
drwhat
drwhat
mt.real
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the current ndp leadership contest is even more worthless and embarrassing than the last one. no one currently involved in politics in canada who isn't a joke wants to go up against Boxin' JT
it's not surprising i guess. if you're capable of anything you don't go into canadian party politics.
it's not surprising i guess. if you're capable of anything you don't go into canadian party politics.
shriekingviolet
shriekingviolet
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drwhat posted:the current ndp leadership contest is even more worthless and embarrassing than the last one. no one currently involved in politics in canada who isn't a joke wants to go up against Boxin' JT
it's not surprising i guess. if you're capable of anything you don't go into canadian party politics.
i still go to the occasional party attended by certain ndp insiders and it's always really funny to catch up with the inside baseball of how they keep resignedly shuffling from one embarrassingly bland inevitable failure to another. these are talented and smart people that i respect and they have hitched themselves for life to a party they know to be worthless. the beige martyr complex.
drwhat
drwhat
mt.real
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shriekingviolet posted:i still go to the occasional party attended by certain ndp insiders and it's always really funny to catch up with the inside baseball of how they keep resignedly shuffling from one embarrassingly bland inevitable failure to another. these are talented and smart people that i respect and they have hitched themselves for life to a party they know to be worthless. the beige martyr complex.
i got involved a tiny tiny bit with edmonton-strathcona 9 or 10 years ago & was honestly sincerely impressed at the awareness, intelligence, and dedication of some of the MPs who stopped by. the conversations were pretty great and much more aware of real issues etc than mainstream media. (at least according to me, then.) it felt pretty cool. then linda duncan got elected and i got to feel smug for having convinced some people to help (and the vote count was close enough that it felt meaningful). then mulcair happened and any positive feelings i had about the party evaporated pretty much instantly. all i retain from this period is a kneejerk need to narrow my eyes whenever i see Brad Lavigne on cbc, though i don't remember why anymore.
shriekingviolet
shriekingviolet
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oh my god it was that long ago. i remember being glued to the results as they came in, and so proud when we made it.
yeah my friends in the party hail from that early linda duncan era and it really did feel like there was hope for things to get better in those heady days. sanity would prevail any minute now. then the party got in one little ideological fight and mom got scared and we moved with liberal auntie and uncle to a town called Extinguish All Hope, Light And Life, Your Puny Volition Is Nothing Against The Infinite Void.
yeah my friends in the party hail from that early linda duncan era and it really did feel like there was hope for things to get better in those heady days. sanity would prevail any minute now. then the party got in one little ideological fight and mom got scared and we moved with liberal auntie and uncle to a town called Extinguish All Hope, Light And Life, Your Puny Volition Is Nothing Against The Infinite Void.