but yeah this all seems like pure scam/pipedream
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-11/lyft-set-to-claim-third-of-u-s-market-in-2017-document-shows
Uber hasn’t publicly disclosed its third-quarter financial information and it’s not clear whether Khosrowshahi will continue the practice of releasing them publicly. Lyft, also a closely held company, has never publicly released its financials.
i enjoyed keeping up with it every 3 months so i hope that's not true.
Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:i should note that i was doing some extremely back-of-the-envelope calculations and that i know nothing about either trucking nor battery technology.
but yeah this all seems like pure scam/pipedream
elon musk being just a total scam artist/pt barnum figure is much cooler imo than the dominant view of him as some kind of techno visionary
https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web/nokbg0240.nsf/AllWeb/4B8113B707A50A4FC125811D00407045?OpenDocument
2018 will be the debut of the first autonomous electric cargo vessel. Seafaring costs are all tied up in labor in fuel. And now you've cut both out. It's free money.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Road_freight_transport_by_journey_characteristics
Look at that shit. Average EU road freight is 80 miles. There's like a bazillion back and forth routes that would make an electric truck perfect. Even if Tesla is a scam right now. Even if the economics don't work now. Even if the science doesn't work. They will eventually. And the companies that don't invest in the first stream of electric trucks and infrastructure will be wiped out.
You can't compare Tesla to the rest of silicon valley. They have technology, assets, tangible products, and a million fucklords ready to fellate the man. It's some weird ass thinking if you don't think a hyper-capitalist like Musk won't succeed. Even if he doesn't and the whole thing implodes, there'll be someone else to pick up the pieces. Electric motors have huge commercial advantages. Rolls Royce is pushing autonomous and electric commercials vessels hard right now. The shit is a dream come true for operators and owners. It's going to happen.
and that tesla has actual assets is part of why they're interesting to me, i wanna see how it all gets picked apart
hey posted:Ya'll aren't considering just how much of a wet dream low maintenance electrics trucks would be for logistics company. Diesels are a nightmare. oil, coolant, filters, exhaust fluid, emissions controls, transmission oil. A billion rubbing mechanical components. Even the electronics are comparable to electric vehicles, with modern diesels having sensors and controls to monitor every single function.
https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web/nokbg0240.nsf/AllWeb/4B8113B707A50A4FC125811D00407045?OpenDocument
2018 will be the debut of the first autonomous electric cargo vessel. Seafaring costs are all tied up in labor in fuel. And now you've cut both out. It's free money.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Road_freight_transport_by_journey_characteristics
Look at that shit. Average EU road freight is 80 miles. There's like a bazillion back and forth routes that would make an electric truck perfect. Even if Tesla is a scam right now. Even if the economics don't work now. Even if the science doesn't work. They will eventually. And the companies that don't invest in the first stream of electric trucks and infrastructure will be wiped out.
You can't compare Tesla to the rest of silicon valley. They have technology, assets, tangible products, and a million fucklords ready to fellate the man. It's some weird ass thinking if you don't think a hyper-capitalist like Musk won't succeed. Even if he doesn't and the whole thing implodes, there'll be someone else to pick up the pieces. Electric motors have huge commercial advantages. Rolls Royce is pushing autonomous and electric commercials vessels hard right now. The shit is a dream come true for operators and owners. It's going to happen.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/07/cobalt-production-as-the-hidden-choke-point-on-mass-conversion-to-electric-vehicles.html
Cobalt isn't the only part of this you're missing. The difference between electric and mechanical power is conversion loss. The externalities from fabricating, powering and maintaining electric cars and their infrastructure are necessarily larger by an order of magnitude than the current infrastructure based on oil extraction. I don't think Musk's trajectory within the capitalist power structure or the brilliance of his engineers matters at all.
Edited by swampman ()
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/this-city-hall-brought-to-you-by-amazon/
As to whether big bets by a celebrity capitalist mean profits are guaranteed ahead vs. mere churning of capital, I mean... really?? Musk of all people can afford to win by losing, unless you believe his tall tales about self-imposed impoverishment when he invests, in which case, I have a weather control program from Ukraine that might interest you
But Minkbike’s collapse was just the latest. Earlier this month, Bluegogo, the third largest bike-share outfit, collapsed. It had claimed 20 million registered users at its peak and operated 600,000 bikes. It has raised $90 million from VCs, including aptly named Black Hole Capital, based in Beijing, which led the last funding round, $58 million, in February this year. It only took eight months to burn through this money.
lol
Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:
did you see this?
http://www.businessinsider.com/softbank-offer-uber-stock-48-billion-valuations-2017-11
Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()
some potential problems of the design of the tesla semi
the article nakedcapitalism links is interesting too:
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/19/tesla-semi-trucker-questions/
Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()
NYTimes article on the softbank deal apparently going ahead.
http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/r-ubers-third-quarter-adj-loss-widens-to-743-mln---ft-2017-11-1009867861
lol. about 5.9 billion to go now i think.
Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()
tears posted:adjusted loss is when they "adjust" their loss to make it look less than it actually is
some info on the upcoming (delayed) trial between waymo (google) and uber.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alphabet-uber-ruling/uber-waymo-trial-delayed-as-u-s-judge-raises-prospect-of-cover-up-idUSKBN1DS26X
http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Uber-Waymo-case-Dramatic-turn-as-judge-says-Uber-12388930.php
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-uber-waymo-20171128-story.html
good corporate espionage shit. including ex-CIA agents (check the LA times article)
Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()
Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:uber loss of 743 million in Q3 2017
http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/r-ubers-third-quarter-adj-loss-widens-to-743-mln---ft-2017-11-1009867861
lol. about 5.9 billion to go now i think.
here's a bloomberg article giving us the $1.5 billion 2017 q3 losses number
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-29/uber-s-third-quarter-loss-is-said-to-widen-to-1-46-billion
that bloomberg article also says that losses were $1.1 in 2017 q2. but i had previously (in late august 2017) cited a ~$645 million 2017 q2 number, eg:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-profitability-results/uber-second-quarter-bookings-increase-loss-narrows-idUSKCN1B32FW
so what's happening here? is uber even more fucked than they were letting on? or is this some accounting quirk.
Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()
Uber's Q2 disclosure which took out one time losses was ($645M) in Q2
— Eric Newcomer (@EricNewcomer) November 29, 2017
im assuming "one time losses" are things like fines lol.
Edited by Chthonic_Goat_666 ()
yes
— Eric Newcomer (@EricNewcomer) November 29, 2017
That's jury selection and then trial starts Feb 5 https://t.co/g2dmxjtDil
— Eric Newcomer (@EricNewcomer) November 29, 2017
and
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/11/uber-says-whistleblower-was-extorting-the-company/
Chthonic_Goat_666 posted:dont be mean to the nice bloomberg uber guy who is answering my question
sorry it was the snap glasses that made me do it
https://economicsofimperialism.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/dimensions-of-economic-power-todays-key.html
New Event Podcast: Tony Norfield on 'Three Dimensions of Economic Power: Apple, Amazon and Facebook' @StubbornFacts https://t.co/JjhngXJdTn
— SOAS Economics (@SOASEconomics) October 19, 2017
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-01/will-uber-ever-stop-the-bleeding
As worrying as the depths of Uber's loss, is its trajectory. Even when you look at the numbers as Uber likes to count them, the company's loss grew by 15 percent in the third quarter from the previous three months. At the end of the first half of this year, Uber had $6.6 billion cash on hand so it won't run out anytime soon.
"wont run out anytime soon" = will run out in a year or so if current cash burn rate continues
tears posted:is the cash spend just them subsidising rides?
i think its a lot of different things
-subsidising rides, free promotional rides and so on
-lobbying, lawyers, fines etc
-incentives for new drivers. when they come to a new market uber give very good pay, luring taxi drivers, pizza delivery boys etc to quit their old jobs. then uber inevitably cut the rates to try to stop the haemorrhaging. uber has a very fast employee turnover so they often give one-off bonuses for new drivers signing up. they also sometimes give bonuses for drivers who refer other drivers to signup iirc.
-schemes like lending out cars (to try to trap drivers with indebtedness) which actually lost them money lol
-getting the best PR guys like david plouffe. im sure they dont come cheap
-i assume a lot of management and IT type stuff, they're always tweaking the app and the algorithms used to calculate pay. think about all the people needed to process things like passenger complaints.
-spending maybe 100 million dollars on a new CEO?
-programs like uberpool and ubereats which lead to even more subsidies i think.
maybe my perception has been colored by the 70s-80s sitcom Taxi but im guessing most taxis dont spend on lavish HQs like this. do you really need all those computers like you're an apple store? do you really need all those employees? shouldn't you just be making people queue?
of course there's a big property bubble here so maybe they can get some of that money back when they sell. i hope theyre not renting lol