#81
mt.real
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

the ndp announced a timeline to a leadership race in their quebec provincial party. the vote will be in january 2018, with quebec provincial election expected october. it's a strange project basically being invented out of no mass or activist base. i asked guy caron about it and he politely explained why it was a terrible idea, and he's like... the most prominent quebec MP right now i guess? this when quebec solidaire is polling double-digits consistently now. i think it has more potential in the short run to fuck with the liberals than it does to hurt QS though... QS has strong personalities and people who like them will probably stay together in their key ridings.


it's dumb that federal parties have to pretend like they're viable everywhere because they've turned "308 candidates" (or whatever the number is now) into a talking point, as if anyone gives a shit if a 7-vote candidate 3000 km away ran or not and definitely is the determining factor on whether anyone thinks the ndp is 'really running for government' or not.

if a potential voter is so unsure about your party that everything is indeterminate except "hmm i better look up... wait! only 280???" is the final factor, you already had a problem.

anyway. i am continuing to be pointlessly mad, pls continue

#82
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
you could say the NDP is "In Deep" haha. Share with proper attribution
#83
Black Belt
Post rating: ~

shriekingviolet posted:

getfiscal posted:

i think it has more potential in the short run to fuck with the liberals

sounds like a solid basis of action to me



i was told protesting pride was ultraleftist and a friend is being threatened with expulsion over it. state o the left.

#84
Post rating: ~
Protestesting as in counter demonstrations or protestesting as in abstaining? I know libs who abstained for crying out loud
#85
Post rating: +
i mean under what context. i hang out with a bunch of queer folk who publicly shit on pride liberally (aha) every year when it comes around and it's pretty clear to everyone where we're coming from, even when it makes them Real Mad. you've got to put a little effort into not looking like a jason unruhe weirdo marching for KKE family values or w/e, or people are understandably going to get the wrong idea.
#86
Post rating: ~

Belphegor posted:

Protestesting as in counter demonstrations or protestesting as in abstaining? I know libs who abstained for crying out loud


yeah like taking issue with the modern corporate copfest pride isn't very controversial in any circles at all at this point, i feel like you've got to really fuck up to get in trouble over it?

#87
Black Belt
Post rating: ~
i get the impression everyone is assuming that protesting pride, whether via disruption or not, means youre affiliated with no justice no pride, despite njnp being a DC-only coalition. sorta like how every police brutality protest over the last few years is a BLM event.
#88
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

drwhat posted:

it's dumb that federal parties have to pretend like they're viable everywhere because they've turned "308 candidates" (or whatever the number is now) into a talking point

i don't think that's a big consideration here, it's more the federalist politicians in the NDP who hate the liberal party, would never join the PQ or CAQ, and see a big gap in the spectrum which could be filled by the NDP. basically their same message as in 2011 (which worked). but it's basically like a new gang trying to break into established territories, well, almost literally, so i don't know what they think is going to happen.

#89
Post rating: ~
breaking into quebec as the squeaky clean new federalist kids in town when separatist sentiment is on the resurgence seems pretty boneheaded. like you can try to pick up ground you expect the liberals to lose, but uh... wouldn't you need a team of trusted veteran headliners to make that work? it was a while ago but iirc the gains in 2011 didn't come out of nowhere, many of them had been around forever and formed a popular core folks could get behind, the young newbies followed in that wake. i'm... not really seeing that this time?

JohnBeige posted:

assuming that protesting pride, whether via disruption or not, means youre affiliated with no justice no pride, despite njnp being a DC-only coalition.


i don't know who that is. i'm mostly just confused as to how badly you would have to fuck up to be threatened with expulsion at one of the comparatively friendlier venues for genuine leftist dissent. is your city an infinite idyllic suburb with no radical queer community or someth? did you stand next to westboro baptist? more importantly: did the NDP have a float? was it a gilded corpse-litter for the spirit of Jack Layton May His Moustache Forever Reign?

#90
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

shriekingviolet posted:

breaking into quebec as the squeaky clean new federalist kids in town when separatist sentiment is on the resurgence seems pretty boneheaded. like you can try to pick up ground you expect the liberals to lose, but uh... wouldn't you need a team of trusted veteran headliners to make that work?

yeah. it's dumb. when i asked caron about it, who, like, should know, he said the two reasons it would probably fail is that there is no prominent charismatic personality who could lead it (like mario dumont created the ADQ), and no crisis which the NDPQ would offer a unique alternative viewpoint towards. which is pretty definitive in my mind. the only person who could plausibly lead the NDPQ into a provincial election next year and be 'competitive' and 'credible' would be... like... tom mulcair...

#91
Post rating: ~
might go to a ndp leadership meeting with singh and radical wayne tomorrow. anything i should grill him on or should i just eat the free food and sneer disapprovingly at their lack of radical-ness (except wayne).
#92
Post rating: +
Ask a simple low ball question, but while you're doing it repeatedly refer to the NDP as a "socialist party" as if you're completely unaware of the term's contentious removal from the party constitution
#93
Post rating: ~
haha yeah i can do that no problem. hell i'm feeling downright revolutionary, my year long stye has finally been excised and i'm back to my good looking self. perhaps i'll try and force some sort of vote, even though it's just a meet and greet and i'm no member.
#94
Post rating: ~
propose motions 1, 2 and 4,
#95
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +

shriekingviolet posted:

Ask a simple low ball question, but while you're doing it repeatedly refer to the NDP as a "socialist party" as if you're completely unaware of the term's contentious removal from the party constitution

they were smart enough to keep in the word socialism, it's just surrounded by a bunch of weasel words to make it useless. to be honest though this doesn't bother me because the ndp is basically "the NGO for NGOs" at this point and most of those people think of themselves as "progressives" or whatever. also both jack layton and andrea horwath referred to themselves as socialists during their leadership campaigns, it doesn't really mean anything.

#96
Post rating: +
I remember the bickering. Watering down all the language into an indistinguishable grey soup was the right move for where the party wants to be going (the trash bin,) but the S word will still get you the stink eye from certain upwardly mobile professional types. I once had a guy repeatedly insist on correcting every instance to "social democracy" as if anyone cared, this while I was yelling at them for putting up party banners at our event after being explicitly asked not to (and not the first time they'd done that, assholes.) It was funny.
#97
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
lol. i've posted this before but it is my favourite ONDY thing ever. it's a selection of a number of resolutions proposed after some trots took over the ONDY executive. the party eventually arranged a revote so the trots would lose.

1. ONDY Commitments
Whereas the doctrines of Socialism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Stalinism and Maoism run opposed to the NDP and CCF's principles of social democracy and co-operation;
...
And whereas much of the history of the party has been ordinary people fighting to define a social democracy outside of the confines of socialist rhetoric, socialist hierarchy and socialist thought control;

And whereas in many countries where the doctrine of Socialism is implemented, human rights are stomped, opposition is crushed and basic human dignity is impugned;

And whereas New Democrats support a co-operative commonwealth in Canada that cannot be accomplished through Socialist hierarchy, Socialist patronage, and Socialist idealogical orthodoxy;

And whereas New Democrats believe that a co-operative commonwealth in Canada can be built through the greater co-operation of peoples at the local level, elevating up in the form of co-operative and non-profit housing, banking institutions, farm production, stores and other units of the economy;

And whereas the doctrine of Socialism's centralization of power will ensure that a social democracy and locally built economy can never have happen;

Be it resolved that we in ONDY commit to the principles of social democracy, in solidarity with generations and generations of CCF/NDPers since the party and movement was founded;

Be it further resolved that we in ONDY condemn the doctrine of Socialism as generations of CCF/NDPers have and hopefully always will.

2. Trotskyism

Whereas it is longstanding tactic of Trotskyists ever since the 1930s to attempt to takeover and hijack social democratic organizations, a tactic called "entryism";

And whereas it is often the case that Trotskyists in ONDY vote as a block, having made their mind up on an issue before discussion occurs, to pursue their goals, where non-invading ONDYers may be more independent in their thoughts or choose to be in solidarity with the ONDY as a whole;

Whereas the tactic of "entryism" can be fatal to an organization, as was the case when the NDP of Australia was taken over and dismantled by the Trotskyists, as detailed in the article "How the Trots Destroyed the Nuclear Disarmament Party" by Peter Myers;

And whereas ONDY encourages the discussion of measures to implement social democratic principles, but does not entertain those that do not have those basic principles of social democracy and co-operation because those viewpoints are not humane and are foreign to the New Democratic Party and its predecessors;

And whereas the doctrines of Socialism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Stalinism and Maoism run opposed to the NDP and CCF's principles of social democracy and co-operation;

And whereas there are many Communist political parties in Canada where Trotskyists can find a home;

Be it resolved that the Ontario New Democratic Youth approves and applauds the decision of the ONDY Executive to de-charter the Toronto Young New Democrats.

Be it further resolved that the Ontario New Democratic Youth will de-charter and dismember all Trotskyist blocks and organizations that may linger in ONDY, and actively prevent the takeover of ONDY conventions and councils.

3. Co-operative Exercises

Whereas we in ONDY believe the social democracy of our CCF/NDP is about local control, democracy, work and human dignity led by an individual sense of responsibility, solidarity and collective love;

And whereas we in ONDY believe this vision of Canada can only happen if citizens begin practicising more collective ways of living, working and playing;

Therefore be it resolved that ONDY conventions and councils include "co-operative" exercises where ONDYites participate and work together to achieve goals.

4. Committee of Social Democrats

Whereas the removal of the doctrine of Trotskyism from ONDY and its Communist centralization of power and poor treatment of people is a great stride toward the resurgence of social democracy and co-operation in ONDY that are the principles of New Democrats of the past, those greatest Canadians;

Whereas ONDYites are eager to explore co-operation and social democracy and to learn of how we can do this in our present society, soon:

Be it resolved that the ONDY convention form a committee of social democrats that will meet to learn about, research and actively do the principles of co-operation and social democracy that were articulated by the founders of the party and adapted over the years by New Democrats.

#98
Post rating: +
trip report: i got roped into cutting some lawns and trimming the hedge at my g-ma's, so had a couple beers during that and some rum, so i passed out a couple hours and sleeping through it. a++ would do again.
#99
Post rating: +
that's the most productive story about getting involved with the NDP that i've heard in a long time!