#1
ha ha ha! he's at it again! pasty-faced turdman ALAIN DE BOTTON, miserable excuse for a philosopher who literally once held a residency at heathrow terminal 5 & author of the recent Bad Book Religion for Atheists (expertly eviscerated by terry eagleton here) wants to build the Dumbest Thing Ever, aka a friggin Temple of Atheism, in the city of london! but richard dawkins isnt happy about it because atheists ought to be all arsey & myopic on the internet instead, i guess, or something? midget fight!!!

Plans to build a £1m "temple for atheists" among the international banks and medieval church spires of the City of London have sparked a clash between two of Britain's most prominent non-believers.

The philosopher and writer Alain de Botton is proposing to build a 46-metre (151ft) tower to celebrate a "new atheism" as an antidote to what he describes as Professor Richard Dawkins's "aggressive" and "destructive" approach to non-belief.

Rather than attack religion, De Botton said he wants to borrow the idea of awe-inspiring buildings that give people a better sense of perspective on life.

"Normally a temple is to Jesus, Mary or Buddha, but you can build a temple to anything that's positive and good," he said. "That could mean a temple to love, friendship, calm or perspective. Because of Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens atheism has become known as a destructive force. But there are lots of people who don't believe but aren't aggressive towards religions."

Dawkins criticised the project on Thursday, indicating the money was being misspent and that a temple of atheism was a contradiction in terms.

"Atheists don't need temples," the author of The God Delusion said. "I think there are better things to spend this kind of money on. If you are going to spend money on atheism you could improve secular education and build non-religious schools which teach rational, sceptical critical thinking."

The spat came as De Botton revealed details of a temple to evoke more than 300m years of life on earth. Each centimetre of the tapering tower's interior has been designed to represent a million years and a narrow band of gold will illustrate the relatively tiny amount of time humans have walked the planet. The exterior would be inscribed with a binary code denoting the human genome sequence.

The philosopher said he has raised almost half the funds for the project from a group of property developers who want to remain anonymous. He hopes to find the rest of the money with a public appeal, and construction could start by the end of 2013 if permission is granted by the Corporation of London.

De Botton said he chose the country's financial centre because he believes it is where people have most seriously lost perspective on life's priorities.

The idea has echoes of earlier atheist spaces, ranging from churches converted to "temples of reason" during the French revolution to the Conway Hall in London which is run by the humanist South Place Ethical Society. The plan is already proving controversial and attempts to secure public sector backing have struggled. Discussions with City authorities about a possible site stalled because "they can't be seen to be connected to anything to do with atheism", the project's architect, Tom Greenall, said. [kennote: lmao atheists are so persecuted amirite]

The temple features a single door for visitors who will enter as if it were an art installation. The roof will be open to the elements and there could be fossils and geologically interesting rocks in the concrete walls.

Humanists said it was misplaced for non-believers to build quasi-religious buildings, because atheists did not need temples to probe the meaning of life.

"The things religious people get from religion – awe, wonder, meaning and perspective – non-religious people get them from other places like art, nature, human relationships and the narratives we give our lives in other ways," said Andrew Copson, chief executive of the British Humanist Society.

De Botton has insisted atheists have as much right to enjoy inspiring architecture as religious believers.

"The dominant feeling you should get will be awe – the same feeling you get when you tip your head back in Ely cathedral," he said. "You should feel small but not in an intimidated way."

But according to the Rev Katharine Rumens, rector of St Giles' Cripplegate church, in the Barbican, where the temple is likely to be located: "Awe is not enough."

She said: "You need a welcome, a sense of belonging and of wanting to return. It might make you feel so insignificant you wouldn't know how to start. What would this say to somebody who is mentally frail or nearing the end of their life? How does that really speak to the human condition?"

Another Anglican, the Rev George Pitcher, a priest at St Bride's, Fleet Street, and a former adviser to the archbishop of Canterbury, "rejoiced" in the idea. "He is referring to a sense of human transcendence, that there is something more than our visceral existence," Pitcher said.

"Building a monument acknowledges that we are more than dust. Whether we come at that through secular means or a religious narrative, it is the same game.

"This is a more constructive atheism than Dawkins, who is about the destruction of ideas rather than contributing new ones."



deny your dustliness alain. deny it

#2
i don't know about the U.K. but the biggest buildings in every major U.S. city are already atheistic temples to the gods of "human progress."
#3
Intellectual Cripple Fight Of The Century
#4
picking on alain de botton is like drop kicking the dog in my avatar
#5
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#6
I saw a ted talk that Alain de botton did about his whole Atheism 2.0. (ted talk: Baby Finland masturbates a droid) He basically addressed all the obvious failings of dawkins/hitchens atheism from a reasonable person's perspective and talked about all the good of religion in a general sense.

If I was an atheist I'd prefer his atheism to be the forefront rather than the hearts full of anger and terror but mostly holier than thou middle class gnashy door slamming, dawkins kind. But it really is just the atheism of the privileged, the ~oh let people have their dear rituals and make their delightful paintings~ kind of atheism, rather than the HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN GOD WITH A MICROSCOPE?? I SPY SHENANIGANS!! kind of atheism. One is definitely less grating, but still fails to be anything more than another protestant sect worshipping nogod. it just happens to be less bellicose schism than the dawkins one. all probably because it doesn't feel so threatened by the cargo cult jew sectarians who call themselves "evangelical" ""christians" who are causing trouble around the world
#7
#8
hes a great troll
#9
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#10
goatstein
#11
alain's atheism is if anything worse than dawkins', full of syrupy condescension. religious faith is not reducible to a couple of happy platitudes about perseverance and Not Being Dust, its the fire of indignation, the cry of an oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, it burns, its violent, and thats exactly how it should be
#12
one day his forehead will just grow and grow up and up into space. then we'll build a space elevator on it.
#13

jools posted:
one day his forehead will just grow and grow up and up into space. then we'll build a space elevator on it.



finally atheists find something to contribute to society

#14

discipline posted:
Oh my gosh I'm wheezing with laughter, someone wants to have their cake and eat it too huh

churches suck, so I don't see why anyone would want to build one unless they believe their psychopathic sky monster has ordered them to.

#15
many churches are beautiful
#16

gyrofry posted:
many churches are beautiful

churches instill in their attendants an understanding of infinity, because they are so goddamn boring.

#17
autism child doesnt appreciate beauty, whatchaknow
#18
what is a church attendant? is that like what scatman crothers was to that hotel in the shining
#19

gyrofry posted:
what is a church attendant?



a miserable littal pile of secrets!

#20

deadken posted:
autism child doesnt appreciate beauty, whatchaknow

how could i fail to appreciate the transcendent beauty of listening to an old dude talk and singing?

gyrofry posted:
what is a church attendant? is that like what scatman crothers was to that hotel in the shining

A person who is present at an event, meeting, or function (in this case, a church).

#21

Cycloneboy posted:

deadken posted:
autism child doesnt appreciate beauty, whatchaknow

how could i fail to appreciate the transcendent beauty of listening to an old dude talk and singing?

gyrofry posted:
what is a church attendant? is that like what scatman crothers was to that hotel in the shining

A person who is present at an event, meeting, or function (in this case, a church).



an old dude talking and singing isnt a cathedral.

and if you cant imagine the transcendent beauty of listening to an old dude talk or sing then gtfo out of culture Or Cool politics that all the cool people like, and shoo the too foo you and get yourself into an insane assilum stat.

#22

Crow posted:
an old dude talking and singing isnt a cathedral.

and if you cant imagine the transcendent beauty of listening to an old dude talk or sing then gtfo out of culture Or Cool politics that all the cool people like, and shoo the too foo you and get yourself into an insane assilum stat.

if the old dude is talking about communism and the song is the Internationale, i'm cool w/ it. otherwise, no.

#23
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#24
The idea that Christianity and Enlightenment are the answer to the ravages of capitalism is basically self-refuting. Perhaps handling raw meat is the cure for salmonella poisoning as well?
#25
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#26
christianity yes enlightenment no
#27
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#28

tpaine posted:

babyfinland posted:
The idea that Christianity and Enlightenment are the answer to the ravages of capitalism is basically self-refuting. Perhaps handling raw meat is the cure for salmonella poisoning as well?

there you go again with the food prep analogies. jesus tom, not everything revolves around your sickly but nonetheless ravenous digestive system. :rollthefuckeyes:



actually, given the way gravity is organized in the universe, everything does revolve around my digestive system

#29
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#30
why does anyone give a fuck what richard dawkins thinks, i never figured that out
#31

shennong posted:
why does anyone give a fuck what richard dawkins thinks, i never figured that out



Science

#32

shennong posted:
why does anyone give a fuck what richard dawkins thinks, i never figured that out

because he represents a minority community, and is an evolutionary biologist who has written books on the sociopathic nature of, well, nature, thus fitting into a particular set of stereotypes that religious people - I mean, some religious people - love, but is also intelligent and calm so that atheists can identify with him.

#33
basically, same reason Malcolm X is way better known than he deserves to be (props to the dude and all, but he basically was never involved in the Civil Rights Movement because of his religion): he appeals to the "ingroup" (as a scary outgroup member) and the "outgroup" (as someone who calls the ingroup on their shit).
#34

Cycloneboy posted:
basically, same reason Malcolm X is way better known than he deserves to be (props to the dude and all, but he basically was never involved in the Civil Rights Movement because of his religion): he appeals to the "ingroup" (as a scary outgroup member) and the "outgroup" (as someone who calls the ingroup on their shit).



lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

#35

babyfinland posted:

shennong posted:
why does anyone give a fuck what richard dawkins thinks, i never figured that out

Science



dawkins is a really mediocre scientist tho, i mean the fact that he probably has as much recognition in popular culture as stephen jay gould or someone like that is insane

#36

Cycloneboy posted:

shennong posted:
why does anyone give a fuck what richard dawkins thinks, i never figured that out

because he represents a minority community, and is an evolutionary biologist who has written books on the sociopathic nature of, well, nature, thus fitting into a particular set of stereotypes that religious people - I mean, some religious people - love, but is also intelligent and calm so that atheists can identify with him.



lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

#37
the gene is the unit of selection buuuuhhhhh duhhh
#38
richard dawkins is like malcolm x. atheists are an oppressed minority
#39

deadken posted:
richard dawkins is like malcolm x.

Malcolm X said some mean things about white people, that was it. He was simply uninvolved in the Civil Rights Movement as a political movement (because he was in the NoI). Obviously, Malcolm X is way better than Richard Dawkins, but it's the same underlying principle at work.

deadken posted:
atheists are an oppressed minority

An oppressed minority that can easily pass as members of a majority group is still an oppressed minority. Least trustworthy people, least want-my-daughter-to-marry-an-X group, etc.

#40

Cycloneboy posted:

deadken posted:
richard dawkins is like malcolm x.

Malcolm X said some mean things about white people, that was it. He was simply uninvolved in the Civil Rights Movement as a political movement (because he was in the NoI). Obviously, Malcolm X is way better than Richard Dawkins, but it's the same underlying principle at work.



thats wrong

Cycloneboy posted:

deadken posted:
atheists are an oppressed minority

An oppressed minority that can easily pass as members of a majority group is still an oppressed minority. Least trustworthy people, least want-my-daughter-to-marry-an-X group, etc.



atheism is in no way persecuted in the west nor do atheists constitute an oppressed group. people not liking you doesn't make you oppressed