#1
Post rating: +++++
, there are certain petty-bourgeois sectors of the black lives matter movement that encourage a purely identitarian politics, and which rejects socialism and communism out of a mistaken conflation of those politics with whiteness

On the other hand, trying to enact democratic socialism via the office of the presidency under the auspices of a capitalist party is inherently worthy of only the most severe mockery

on the other hand, the very fact that bernie sanders is able to even touch the word 'socialism' and still draw fairly large support from people disillusioned with the present system can only be interpreted, on its own at least, as a positive development within Amerikan Elektoral Politiks. Annoying or not, this trend should probably be encouraged to grow at this stage moreso than struggling for political clarity.

on the other hand, there are sectors of the blm movement that are unquestionably revolutionary, and supporting these sectors is probably the most useful tact that communists can take when trying to intervene in the movement. these sectors usually are not willing to compromise on their opposition to democratic socialism or the electoral process. and so, protesting any manifestation of that process is a natural outcome

on the other hand, everyone involved is probably cia

Edited by postposting ()

#2
Post rating: +
The fact that both the right AND the left populist in the current election cycle posture against immigration is pretty ominous, tbh. As is the fact that the platform Sanders issued implicitly separated justice for migrants from Racial Justice.
#3
Post rating: ~
the only ppl not cia or openly fascist reside in this very forum, OP
#4
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that's why i post here instead of just talking to my friends, family and coworkers
#5
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +++++
my question is, what good will it do if bernie sanders defangs the word "socialism" by reinventing it as a thing where white wannabe yuppies back modest tax increases and lose big, and my answer is, fuck that. i have spent enough of my life coughing and hacking my way through the cointelpro haze about socialism and race to talk to people, just like everyone here probably. and it's still obvious to me that struggle without the support of people fighting cops in ferguson is pointless, while the support of the people attending Bernie Sander Rally goes in the "nice to have" bucket at best, and at worst, it means you're doing something wrong.
#6
Post rating: +
it's interesting when you meet someone new and have to figure out whether their fascism is proto- or crypto-
#7
Post rating: +
associating Bernie Sanders with socialism is bad for socialism.

it becomes much easier to dismiss the necessity of socialist policy when it becomes defined by the tepid and reformism of social democratic capitalism that sanders represents. The latter will fail and its failure will be used to try and push socialism further into the dustbin of history.

instead it should be noted at every juncture that Bernie is a capitalist and imperialist and the inevitable failure of his campaign or policies is contrasted by actual leftism and radicalism. that strategy helped convert a lot of people during obama's campaign imo

Edited by aerdil ()

#8
hi
Post rating: +
i really wish bernie would self-declare himself a social democrat just for accuracy's sake.
#9
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +++++
i feel like the sanders campaign is less Red tourism than it is a trade show for the minority of super-liberals behind it. i think sometimes people underestimate how many college-going or college-educated young whites look at people like Bernie Sanders and see a guy made out of big bags with dollar signs on them, waving them over to a new jetta. or like, the prospect of never having to worry about their bills again and so fuck you chemistry majors because i am gonna be rich and/or famous. they maintain in the front of their head the idea of a more equitable and pacific united states but in the back of their brains are accumulated years of leaky post-millennial business school propaganda and MSNBC sizzle reels, suggesting, hey, jump on this "socialism" thing while it's hot. then obviously if you just write some articles for VICE or a blog on The Nation and show everyone that you believe that bourgeois/u.s. government policy is bad in the past, but fine or whatever when a democrat is president and never, ever like, on-purpose-bad or for-any-real-reason-bad, then the secret masters will take note that you're Dangerous But Not Too and one day your bourgeois heaven will descend from the clouds and you'll have cocktails in heaven with george will, james carville and his nazi wife or maybe rape some interns clinton style. it's even less likely than striking it rich by shutting up and going to work, but it's the way the bohemian fantasy extends itself nowadays among the petit bourgeois because all ties to opposition or even ascetic self-righteousness have been neutralized, from yoga to "socialism". so instead you must get rich while doing good because now you "can" and what are you, some sort of loser?

it's not really surprising that social activism is a small but extremely disproportionately profitable niche in business in the united states, especially as an outgrowth of business education, where salaries are ludicrous and everyone has a startup. environmental/social activist business has been the go-to way to scam americans if you're a foreigner right now and has been for a couple decades at least, and as we see with the Legatum Institute and Democracy Lab and so on, it all just gets pumped right back into soft imperialism so the u.s. government is completely in support of it at all times. and the rainbow flag twitter entrepreneurs of the world love to go abroad and see their dollars helping people turn white, and they are the ones feeling the Bern most of all right now, although they'll forget all about it in a couple years.
#10
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
everytime tentativelurkeraccount upvotes my posts i confuse them with eccentricdeathmongrel and i'm like, "why is the guy who told conec he had dreams about us liking my shit"
#11
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a mod change my name in here to "elias" for my brand . ok .
#12
hi
Post rating: +
i sympathize w/ americans wanting single-payer and stuff but i don't understand how bernie sanders becoming the face of american socialism is going to do jack shit to achieve that.
#13
UNUSUALY COOL
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in a way reds got off easy in the united states because social democracy wasn't a factor since it was crushed in the midwest. Now the rest of the world like
#14
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he's going to usher in the glorious Bernpocalypse, duh.
#15
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cars posted:


for the people i think you're gunning for, the "network = net worth" people, i think its more that its something they can attach themselves to that feels good because the Do What They Love, and then Leverage the Networking and Experience to socially climb. those are the people who put a lot of effort into caring about politics (usually as a big subset of Current Events) as opposed to the vast majority of people who dont think about these things that much and sort of get caught up in going with or opposing whatever is nearby, like a less informed goatstein

#16
hi
Post rating: +
https://twitter.com/BLM_Boston/status/631206632484159489
#17
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~

c_man posted:

cars posted:

for the people i think you're gunning for, the "network = net worth" people, i think its more that its something they can attach themselves to that feels good because the Do What They Love, and then Leverage the Networking and Experience to socially climb.



yeah thats what i said

#18
Post rating: ~
my point was that there are really not that many of those people and that most of the people talking about feeling the bern or yaaasing trillary or whatever dont really fit that mold and generally have little to no (upward) social mobility associated with their political activity and dont seek it out
#19
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~

cars posted:

i feel like the sanders campaign is less Red tourism than it is a trade show for the minority of super-liberals behind it.

#20
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
i don't get the objection here, i said this was a minority of ultra-activists and i said that next to no one gets rich this way invading harvard town & it's just a giddy packaged fantasy for the petit bourgeois, where are we disagreeing?
#21
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
i can't give my own punch line. if only we hadn't lost so many good posters to new york city and stand up comedy.
#22
Post rating: ~

HenryKrinkle posted:

https://twitter.com/BLM_Boston/status/631206632484159489


huh... all this time I thought Black Lives Matter was an anti-abortion group

#23
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cars posted:

i don't get the objection here, i said this was a minority of ultra-activists and i said that next to no one gets rich this way invading harvard town & it's just a giddy packaged fantasy for the petit bourgeois, where are we disagreeing?


i didnt understand what you were saying. its hard to parse the content from the jokes sometimes

#24
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
it's an easy mistake to make when posting with your posting friends. post on wayne.
#25
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there are a lot of liberals who cosplay as the villains of white supremacy (as did probably most of LF, myself not excluded). it's nice when people dislike white supremacy but we are still liberals and naturally will do very little about it
#26
mt.real
Post rating: +

aerdil posted:

it becomes much easier to dismiss the necessity of socialist policy when it becomes defined by the tepid and reformism of social democratic capitalism that sanders represents. The latter will fail and its failure will be used to try and push socialism further into the dustbin of history.



i did some checking and the dustbin is still 15 years away, don't worry

#27
Post rating: +

HenryKrinkle posted:

i really wish bernie would self-declare himself a social democrat just for accuracy's sake.



i think social liberal would be more accurate still. this is the most social democratic legislation he produced and it's basically just telling workers to pull themselves by their bootstraps and become capitalists http://www.veoc.org/node/68

a social democrat would have at least attempted to nationalise the banks or something

#28
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
his youth jobs plan budgets $4bn to create "one million jobs". which you may notice is $4,000 per job. this is because most of the jobs will be summer jobs. there are about 40 million total youth in this category (16-24) i think, of which about 3 or so million are officially unemployed (youth is probably affected worst by the way they calculate it).
#29
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
from the communist party:

http://peoplesworld.org/feeling-the-bern-bernie-sanders-is-hot-in-los-angeles/
#30
Post rating: +

getfiscal posted:

his youth jobs plan budgets $4bn to create "one million jobs". which you may notice is $4,000 per job. this is because most of the jobs will be summer jobs. there are about 40 million total youth in this category (16-24) i think, of which about 3 or so million are officially unemployed (youth is probably affected worst by the way they calculate it).


"youth jobs plan" = rounding up NEETs for the workcamps, forcing them to get girlfriends and lose their mana

#31
Post rating: ~

HenryKrinkle posted:

i really wish bernie would self-declare himself a social democrat just for accuracy's sake.



Identifying as a Social Democrat would imply inaccurately membership of some sort ofinternational....

#32
Post rating: ~
I guess Bernie's good to prove to people that American politics can't even deliver tepid reforms. Obviously some young people are going to cling onto his campaign and then eventually come across Lenin and realize all of the reasons why Bernie sucks and never stood a chance for improving anything.
#33
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

RedMaistre posted:

HenryKrinkle posted:

i really wish bernie would self-declare himself a social democrat just for accuracy's sake.

Identifying as a Social Democrat would imply inaccurately membership of some sort ofinternational....

if he is a member of the DSUSA then they are an affiliate organization of the SI. i'm not sure if he is a member, but they have gone whole hog for him.

#34
Post rating: +

walkinginonit posted:

Obviously some young people are going to cling onto his campaign and then eventually come across Lenin and realize all of the reasons why Bernie sucks and never stood a chance for improving anything.


Or more realistically, they'll learn nothing and continue to do the exact same thing every 4 years until the sun blows up.

#35
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

RedMaistre posted:

HenryKrinkle posted:

i really wish bernie would self-declare himself a social democrat just for accuracy's sake.

Identifying as a Social Democrat would imply inaccurately membership of some sort ofinternational....

if he is a member of the DSUSA then they are an affiliate organization of the SI. i'm not sure if he is a member, but they have gone whole hog for him.



They have, but I don't see anything saying he's an actual member.

#36
Post rating: +
yes i think declaring that he's a member of a workers international would be great for his candidacy
#37
chickeon
Post rating: ~
SI is a bit shit though innit??
#38
Post rating: +
thread reminds me of a video i saw a while ago:



(1:32)


Btw fix making YouTube videos embed at a certain start time pls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwfAczX5--0&start=92

Edited by Peelzebub ()

#39
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: +

HenryKrinkle posted:

i really wish bernie would self-declare himself a social democrat just for accuracy's sake.



but hes an Independent

#40
Post rating: ~
moer like an American Independent cuz he hates immigrants