#1
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#2
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http://www.1up.com/news/dead-island-feminist-whore-skill-apology
#3
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#4
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#5
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i...i love video games!
#6
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video games suck but theyre a great way to kill a lot of time in the hell that is our lives in 2011. i don't play them personally because i have other self-destructive habits
#7
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i don't think the violence or "bad headspaces" are really a problem, i've played those old adventure games addictively and i've played violent games addictively, and i felt the same general sense of unease & despair in both cases. as long as you're staring at and interacting with a screen and not moving your body for six hours on end you're going to be in about the same space regardless of whether the screen is depicting bloodshed
#8
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#9
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its true
#10
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#11
tardy on these heaters
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http://www.modulaatio.com/runningwithrifles/

this games cool
#12
tardy on these heaters
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is this thread a preachy one or a fun one i cant tell yet
#13
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#14
tardy on these heaters
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ok well im playing deus ex 3 on my brothers fancy computer and vampire bloodlines (for the first time) on my laptop

both are ownage.
#15
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bloodlines is probably the best wrpg ever made - be sure to do a normal run and then a malk run, it really is great
#16
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i like to play video game.
#17
tardy on these heaters
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Tsargon posted:
bloodlines is probably the best wrpg ever made - be sure to do a normal run and then a malk run, it really is great



im playing as toreodor right now i just got to downtown LA

i seem to have pissed off nines by trying to be reasonable.. these loony lefties...

EDIT: Note to discipline: this game has vampire communists in it

#18
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:

Tsargon posted:
bloodlines is probably the best wrpg ever made - be sure to do a normal run and then a malk run, it really is great

im playing as toreodor right now i just got to downtown LA

i seem to have pissed off nines by trying to be reasonable.. these loony lefties...

EDIT: Note to discipline: this game has vampire communists in it



theyre anarchists, a totally ridiculous outfit. although lacroix is just as bad (altho he did fight for napoleon + has a slick office)

#19
Post rating: ~

Tsargon posted:

babyfinland posted:

Tsargon posted:
bloodlines is probably the best wrpg ever made - be sure to do a normal run and then a malk run, it really is great

im playing as toreodor right now i just got to downtown LA

i seem to have pissed off nines by trying to be reasonable.. these loony lefties...

EDIT: Note to discipline: this game has vampire communists in it



theyre anarchists, a totally ridiculous outfit. but lacroix is just as bad (altho he did fight for napoleon + has a slick office)

#20
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ive long lost my ability to enjoy a thing like a videogame. how do yall do it (i think i already know (w33d))
#21
tardy on these heaters
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animedad posted:
ive long lost my ability to enjoy a thing like a videogame. how do yall do it (i think i already know (w33d))



im a baby, BABY FINLAND

#22
Online
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i made a big post at wddp about how much i think video games are wrecking human development. i cant see it now but one of the things that bothers me about them (besides being addictive and sedentary and violent etc etc) is that they desocialize human beings and reduce communication to worthless unthinking ejaculations like pwned. the generation growing up with facebook and iphones and these games is going to have the worst ever social skills and will be individualistic as shit.
#23
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good
#24
San Francisco
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There's lots of games that aren't based around shooting zombies with buxom babes, especially in the indie gaming world. Examples such as Minecraft, Braid, Machinarium, And Yet It Moves, Sword & Sworcery, which are all sort of "art games".

Some immensely popular games like World of Warcraft don't really have anything that appalling in their content, either. Sure, the night elf girls may be sexy, but the men are buff too, and they're all treated with respect as characters in the game. Male and female aren't even distinguished by the game's content except to assign pronouns accordingly. And the story generally encourages heroic behavior.

Nintendo still puts out lots of kid-friendly games with their popular franchises like Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, etc.

That said, going around killing zombies in Left 4 Dead can be a good time, and Fallout is an expansive and interesting world to explore. Fallout can be credited with exposing lots of people to their grandparents' music. It isn't necessarily the best moral lessons from these games (although they do directly assign a moral consequence to every significant action taken), but they're also not aimed at children.
#25
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http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_the_genealogy_of_art_games/
#26
San Francisco
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Video games would better be called "interactive media" and there isn't really any limitations to the moral content contained therein, nor is there any in film or books.

To act like Citizen Kane should by slandered by its "association" with the Saw franchise doesn't seem reasonable, does it?
#27
tardy on these heaters
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citizen kane sucks
#28
tardy on these heaters
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stegosaurus posted:
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_the_genealogy_of_art_games/



what is this lol

#29
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stegosaurus posted:
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_the_genealogy_of_art_games/



lol whoa, ill have to read this more later, but this guy writes some pretty good stuff sometimes, e.g. http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/

#30
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He makes obvious points but after you've read a bunch of bullshit elsewhere about Interactivity and Narrative or whatever it's nice to read someone who writes about games but also understands what words mean and what games actually are.

Here for instance he proves in like five sentences that everyone talking about 'are games art?' is a complete idiot.

Here he does the equivalent of disproving the theory of spontaneous generation.

He's putting together a book but that's been in the works for a long time and he keeps pushing his schedule back and adding more shit to the 'to-be-included' list, like Zizek writing his 800pg book about hegel except using the word faggot a lot.

He is definitely going to read this thread by the way, when his forum was open (you have to pay to join it now) he had a thread where he would post every single referring link and respond in-depth to specific things people said on some of the links. So consider this thread basically a collective email.

Edited by stegosaurus ()

#31
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germanjoey posted:
stegosaurus posted:
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_the_genealogy_of_art_games/


lol whoa, ill have to read this more later, but this guy writes some pretty good stuff sometimes, e.g. http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/


i read about half of this before the amazing nerdiness and the rage at japanese made me close it haha. like i get it dude.. but.. theyre games... ungh

#32
San Francisco
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Games are obviously art. As Gabe once put it, "Of course video games are art. They are nothing but art. They are art piled on top of more art."

You have art in the form of music, art in the form of visuals, art in the form of story. If any of these things can be called art, then so must the total game itself. It's really not logical to call games "not art" when they contain elements that are already regarded as art.
#33
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what are you disagreeing with lungfish. that's what he says
#34
San Francisco
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Dammit, the one moment on Rhizzone somebody reads a post right after it's posted.
#35
San Francisco
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OK, I somehow got the exact opposite interpretation of those essays after reading their headlines, especially:

First Essay: The Absurd Circularity of the Pseudo-Art Game

and

"CAN GAMES BE ART?", AND OTHER CHILDISH NONSENSE

But I now realize he was strongly defending games as art.

As for the term "art game", I don't think it inherently implies that other games are "not art". The word "art" has multiple meanings. There is art in the more general sense, which could be called any creative effort by people. And there is art in a more refined sense, something that is evoking of "higher" emotions, typically requiring a bit more effort on the part of the appreciator. It suggests that we are dealing with something more intellectual, more niche, and less intended for mass consumption.

In other mediums, we use terms like "art film" or "art house film", see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_film but we don't do so as a way to deprive all other film of being art. Rather, we're just showing the focus of these films is to be "artistic". Weekend at Bernie's may technically be art, but it is not "art film".
#36
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Impper posted:
germanjoey posted:
stegosaurus posted:
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_the_genealogy_of_art_games/


lol whoa, ill have to read this more later, but this guy writes some pretty good stuff sometimes, e.g. http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/


i read about half of this before the amazing nerdiness and the rage at japanese made me close it haha. like i get it dude.. but.. theyre games... ungh


my impression is that dude snips off some p low hanging fruit

#37
Online
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lungfish you fuckin dork you just really wants to defend video games
#38
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stegosaurus posted:
He makes obvious points but after you've read a bunch of bullshit elsewhere about Interactivity and Narrative or whatever it's nice to read someone who writes about games but also understands what words mean and what games actually are.



yeah, exactly. he's refreshing, and he does that REALLY ORNERY STYLE so well. bbj, your point about low-hanging fruit is kinda valid, in that a lot of the things he sez are really kinda obvious, but you have to remember that he writes this kinda stuff while 10,000 other publications are jacking themselves off over Braid or Spelunky or w/e new trash that's getting crazy hype just because its "indie."

#39
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ilmdge posted:
i made a big post at wddp about how much i think video games are wrecking human development. i cant see it now but one of the things that bothers me about them (besides being addictive and sedentary and violent etc etc) is that they desocialize human beings and reduce communication to worthless unthinking ejaculations like pwned. the generation growing up with facebook and iphones and these games is going to have the worst ever social skills and will be individualistic as shit.



would you mind reposting it here? I pretty much agree in general, but im not as quick to pin "intrinsically bad" on the combination of computer + game so much as them being particularly exploitable.

btw what is your opinion of olde LF favourite "The Age of Imperialism"?

#40
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germanjoey posted:

stegosaurus posted:
He makes obvious points but after you've read a bunch of bullshit elsewhere about Interactivity and Narrative or whatever it's nice to read someone who writes about games but also understands what words mean and what games actually are.

yeah, exactly. he's refreshing, and he does that REALLY ORNERY STYLE so well. bbj, your point about low-hanging fruit is kinda valid, in that a lot of the things he sez are really kinda obvious, but you have to remember that he writes this kinda stuff while 10,000 other publications are jacking themselves off over Braid or Spelunky or w/e new trash that's getting crazy hype just because its "indie."



i just saw that his newest written review is on MINECRAFT...

http://insomnia.ac/reviews/web/minecraft/

Most people who've heard about this game will doubtless have seen at least one or two screenshots of some of those huge, elaborate and colorful structures that Minecraft's most intrepid, let us call them "players", have been building: from giant castles, cities, futuristic landscapes and the like, to detailed recreations of anything from private residences to cars to fucking Imperial cruisers from Star Wars, and so forth. And I mean, seriously, there's no denying the darn things are impressive — at least the first time you see them, and until you've realized what's wrong with them. And what's wrong with them, to cut this short and get to the fucking point, is that they are DEAD. EMPTY. BARREN. LIFELESS — devoid of ANY complexity apart from the primitive physical properties of a bunch of colorful blocks placed in more or less eye-pleasing patterns, get it? — something which is not at all the case with the original sandbox-type game (Sim City) and its by-now practically countless descendants.



would tHE rHizzonE's resident minecraft fanatics care to comment...?