TG posted:

swampman i think youre way off but i understand that you probably just assume im some goony goon goon so whatever

i do try really hard to get outside myself and view the situation in a healthy way. i know nobody owes me anything romantic or sexual, but does that make me happy that im not getting any romantic or sexual attention? like i said, my normal reaction to this situation is to continue just being friends and subsuming my romantic feelings, coming to grips with the fact that theyre unrequited and enjoying a fruitful relationship with a number of women in my life. its really great to have people who enjoy my company and trust me and that i have a connection with on a personal level

im just despairing a bit because im in a rough situation where meeting women that i have a lot in common with is looking pretty unlikely

strangely enough, i knew my last ex for 3-4 months as a close friend before we started dating, so i know its possible. its also possible that that was an outlier and its giving me false hope

i do find it interesting that nobody ive shared with has advised me to just tell her how i feel and see how that goes. i could see it getting awkward, but i think itd make me feel better because id at least have taken a positive step and gotten something off my chest. best case scenario, it turns out she feels the same way and was just waiting for me to do something, worst case, she gently tells me she doesnt and i take a little break to let my wounded heart heal, which shell probably be understanding about

iwc, my humor is not really self-deprecating any more, i was like that in my early 20s but realized it wasnt really healthy. i think youre spot on about the not being assertive when i have romantic feelings though. in an ideal world i wouldnt be expected to make the first move. i guess im just some sort of beta??

also im currently reading caliban and the witch so dont you dare question my feminist credentials

fwiw i definitely don't think you're a goony goony, i know the feeling and position here. One tough thing straight up in reponse to

tell her how I feel

it's my experience that as a dude there are very few instances where people care how you feel. Your mum, siblings maybe, close trusted bros or an empathetic and loving long-term partner. A far more relevant metric here is how you make her feel. Will baring your insecurities and vulnerability make her attracted to you?

*shakes 8 ball*.....

you can't really negotiate desire with emotional honesty in the framework of a The-Case-For-Us-Fucking-Slide 1(a).... verbal powerpoint presentation.

BUT, if you are prepared to accept the consequences and get shut down, while also be willing to change how you do things next time then you can chalk it up to a learning experience. Does she have a 'type' btw?

i do try really hard to get outside myself and view the situation in a healthy way. i know nobody owes me anything romantic or sexual, but does that make me happy that im not getting any romantic or sexual attention? like i said, my normal reaction to this situation is to continue just being friends and subsuming my romantic feelings, coming to grips with the fact that theyre unrequited and enjoying a fruitful relationship with a number of women in my life. its really great to have people who enjoy my company and trust me and that i have a connection with on a personal level

it's ok, you don't have to qualify any of that with me. You think you're a pretty decent guy, good company and conversation, sociable enough, not a weird loser, so it's frustrating when that doesn't translate into romance/sex.

Options

a) Continue the same pattern, let resentment and frustration grow, let the negativity come to define you

b) Continue the same pattern while busying yourself with other distractions or a career or whatever: By the time you're 35 you'll have no shortage of women who would like to marry you but they may not desire you

c) Accept that for all your good qualities, you (like the vast majority of men) will not have women pursue you sexually. Examine patterns of failure, draw conclusions, then chalk 'em up to experience. Take strength from your good qualities and build a confident narrative for yourself in which you, not your love interest, is the focus. And most of all, next time you meet a woman who takes your eye, don't opt for the well-maybe-if-i-get-to-know-her-as-a-friend-first.... way of thinking.

d) become gay and/or muslim

its really great to have people who enjoy my company and trust me and that i have a connection with on a personal level

but also it would be great to have people who enjoy your D, because that's the sort of connection on a personal level you're after.

Does she complain about the guy/s she's gone on dates with to you?

Also: did you feel hurt or anxious when she told you that but you swallowed your pride and just sort of played along like you weren't bothered and that she was just pragmatically informing you of her schedule like she was just one of your male friends?

it was just the one time, so not enough info there

i definitely felt hurt but went with it like it was no thing. granted, this was over texts, so its not hard to be blase about it

youre so easy to talk to, definitely worth the $75 an hour you charge!

guidoanselmi posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

yeah we're big boys and gals who can handle some discussion right?



i mean this is loosely the same group of people who have had to form various online forums because the previous ones collapsed due to infighting and various forms of madness. so, likely not.

i like to think there's something slightly different in the lf->rhizzone disposition that separates it from the infighting and policing that are wreacking havoc on other leftist communities.

guest posted:

charles manson has gf

you have no excuse

Superabound posted:

using Friendship to get you a job: totally valid
using Friendship to get a good deal on a used car: totally valid
using Friendship to get you good drugs: totally valid
using Friendship to get you access to a swimming pool: totally valid
using Frendship to let you play Super Mario Bros 3 because your parents are too poor to buy it for you: totally valid

using Friendship to get close to a person you care about more than any other human being on earth, to find out what theyre like, how they think, how they feel, their hopes, dreams, values, desires, worldview, to get both a general and in depth idea of what, of WHO this person really is deep down inside, BEFORE you have sex with them? what are you, some kind of objectifying misogynist??

lmao, epic post, very convincing

kind of a strawman though cos of course people dont dislike the friendzone crew because they start as friends and hope to eventually have a romantic relationship..they get shit on because they act with entitlement, as if they "deserve" the woman as a gf and as if the woman is fucking them over by being only interested in being friends.

getfiscal posted:

let deadken be deadken.

i am that which i am

TG posted:

i think youre dead on on a number of points. i tend to be too proud, vaguely narcissistic, so i dont change my approach, i just curse the unjust universe.

idk about her type, but shes a bit younger than i am, mid 20s, with about a year of non-school experience, whereas ive got about 5 years of "real world" living. i do think being in school helps retard ones development; my experience with law school is that its virtually the same social scene as high school, but most everyone is a type a person

Does she complain about the guy/s she's gone on dates with to you?

Also: did you feel hurt or anxious when she told you that but you swallowed your pride and just sort of played along like you weren't bothered and that she was just pragmatically informing you of her schedule like she was just one of your male friends?



it was just the one time, so not enough info there

i definitely felt hurt but went with it like it was no thing. granted, this was over texts, so its not hard to be blase about it

youre so easy to talk to, definitely worth the $75 an hour you charge!

The insularity of university, high-school social isolation or selling a condo to forrest gump are all definitely things that can severely retard a man's development. Modernity and technology have profaned many old traditions (good and bad) and replaced such narratives with:

- a hyper-competitive, dog eat dog education/business ponzi scheme for those who want traditional establishment success

- a giant punishment carousel for those who have zero use to capitalism

- the wild-card promise of instant celebrity hyperfame or

- for the vast majority of average western schlubs: boring-ass jobs with little promise of anything better BUT: neutralized from revolt/violence/politics by this odd little cyberhegemony that's developing around us. the internet IS soma: if you can't make real meaningful friendships irl then you will find a forum, you have an obtuse interest or hobby that sort of defines you? Here's a messageboard, your work is meaningless? here's some funny youtube videos lol! if you can't find a woman, here enough graphic visceral sexuality on-command to take the edge off indefinitely.

you might notice what's missing in all of these any structures or rites-of-passage to help a boy navigate his way through them, indeed much of it is un-navigable*

*with the exception of one prominent demographic group in Western countries which consistently commits it's children to those rites of passage, has extensive community support and the teaching of a coherent cultural history. They're also doing pretty well for themselves)

i think youre dead on on a number of points. i tend to be too proud, vaguely narcissistic, so i dont change my approach, i just curse the unjust universe.

Man between this sort of thing and the amount of people who said they were in gifted classes in elementary school i'm beginning to think that the social location and formative thinking of rhizzone posters isn't the most diverse one!

this is the catch-22 though and what separates you from the goony goon basement goony goon or bitter, whining MRA guy. This right here:

i tend to be too proud, vaguely narcissistic, so i dont change my approach

is the exact same confidence/assertiveness potential that when mastered has been the driving force of every man who's ever been anything, from Nelson Mandela to Hugo Schwyzer. One learnt how to use it and tame it better than the other.

i just curse the unjust universe.

this is a combination of apathy and fear of failure i think and is understandable but unfortunately it substantially limits the previous drive. But it's still not really a deep insecurity or anxiety because let's face it we're (i'm assuming...) middle class white dudes. Women have to constantly navigate complicated and burdensome social expectations and behaviours and their old certainties have been upended and muddled to a stupendous degree. 1 in 4 american women are on psychoactive meds, the celebrity hype machine and the social expectations it creates must be tremendously hard to ignore, they are judged and sorted by their bodies far more than we will ever be while conflicting ideologies and agendas nurture anxieties which are then scooped up and sold back to them.

In our cultural environment of open emotional discussion, trauma, sharing and validation it's tempting for you as a dude to feel that understanding and identifying with this will bring them closer to you; that if you share your burdens and communicate with the same nuance and sensitivity that she does then she will find in you the ally she needs.

Problem is that her anxieties aren't yours and even if they were it's the last thing she needs. Your fundamental insecurity is that you feel frustrated that no sex seems to come your way despite having what i assume is a good academic history/future prospects and a healthy, comfortable physicality. Needless to say, that's not a combination of problems faced by many women.

Don't rail against the unjust world (for yourself at least, nothing wrong with anger at injustice): You grew up in a social paradigm that's less than half a century old and is anything but intuitive for all except the lucky few Naturals. Don't seek to cast blame, balance your ledgers, honestly process your desires and re-arrange your frame towards self-belief rather than self-doubt.

tl;dr: throw some historical materialism on those friend zone Ds and redeploy that erratic internal arrogance into stable external confidence

Actual practical advice regarding this lady: Take another woman out on a date then tell her about it

thirdplace posted:

lol a hundred times @ the rhizzone giving legitimately decent relationship advice

where

gyrofry posted:

deadken posted:

i can't believe i just read that entire post

what was it like

it was ok