babyhueypnewton posted:you're about 100 years to late with this question. read Beyond the Pleasure Principle by Freud, then realize it was made in 1920 and you have no excuse.
sorry, i should have asked it in 1920 :/
absent of me reading the book, what does Freud have to say about this?
mongosteen posted:its difficult to say that humans are motivated by pleasure, which is just the simpler non-chemistry-nerd way of saying serotonin, when one thinks about how much shit humans do that brings them no pleasure
such as?
mongosteen posted:most of the drudgery of daily existence. people dont wake up at 7 in the morning, drive through traffic and sit in a cubicle for 8 hours because it is a joyous experience
what? without doing that you die or are bored which isn't very pleasurable. you do that to obtain the means to do things that give you pleasure, it's not contradictory
well fuck me i guess
guidoanselmi posted:the full album of pleasure principle used to be on youtube but i guess they took it down.
well fuck me i guess
littlegreenpills posted:iwc's dead wrong. people are motivated by pain and suffering. when you feel happy and satisfied that's only a projected illusion of your deep agony and suffering and the deeper the latter the sweeter the former feels. Actually True
spoken like a married man
Ironicwarcriminal posted:My friend was telling me recently he thinks that every human action can be boiled down to a simple biological craving to get hits of dopamine in their brain. {Bold this right here please} Is this silly or reductive? {OK enough bolding for now} It sounds like it should be but the more I think about it the more he has a point. Thoughts?
The question is silly/reductive
gyrofry posted:spoken like a married man
like the dad in moral orel
Keven posted:The nature of man is conflict. In a word?
War.
actually it's mcrib
babyhueypnewton posted:you're about 100 years to late with this question. read Beyond the Pleasure Principle by Freud, then realize it was made in 1920 and you have no excuse.
I am not going to read that. I am not sorry.
...
Certain it is that work, worry, labor and trouble, form the lot of almost all men their whole life long.
...
However varied the forms that human happiness and misery may take, leading a man to seek the one and shun the other, the material basis of it all is bodily pleasure or bodily pain. This basis is very restricted: it is simply health, food, protection from wet and cold, the satisfaction of the sexual instinct; or else the absence of these things. Consequently, as far as real physical pleasure is concerned, the man is not better off than the brute, except in so far as the higher possibilities of his nervous system make him more sensitive to every kind of pleasure, but also, it must be remembered, to every kind of pain. But then compared with the brute, how much stronger are the passions aroused in him! what an immeasurable difference there is in the depth and vehemence of his emotions!— and yet, in the one case, as in the other, all to produce the same result in the end: namely, health, food, clothing, and so on.
The chief source of all this passion is that thought for what is absent and future, which, with man, exercises such a powerful influence upon all he does. It is this that is the real origin of his cares, his hopes, his fears — emotions which affect him much more deeply than could ever be the case with those present joys and sufferings to which the brute is confined.
Kenneth you should go hunting and try living for once
Ironicwarcriminal posted:deadken posted:Ironicwarcriminal posted:
deadken posted:
oh yeah there is jouissance which is basically dopamine or whatever, i think lacan's point is that 'normal' human behaviour isn't reducible to simple pleasure-seeking, its just that the other component is, in being transcendent/'higher'/whatever, basically futile
but if you boil it down enough that desire for transcendence is probably just trying to trigger the same mechanism....you can't have drugs or get laid 24/7 but "big ideas" can keep giving you that hit, like a nicotine patch or wahtever
i dont think its so much a desire for transcendence (although it can manifest itself as that) as a desire that is itself transcendent.... i mean like the fact that i spend a non-insubstantial amount of time posting on an ironic politics forum for people who were successively exiled from two larger ironic politics forums doesnt give me any kind of 'hit' or make me feel that good and yet i keep doing itSee you say that but my contention is that it does. When you post a funny burn, or a clever comment, or get positive feedback from one of your stories, it is delivering you that dopamine.
There's no shame in admitting that.
yeah but how often does that happen lol
ggw posted:i live to read bad dead "kenneth" ken posts.
Kenneth you should go hunting and try living for once
whats up w/ ur fixation on me
deadken posted:whats up w/ ur fixation on me
im trying to save u
statickinetics posted:woah
woah is a force that gives us meaning
mongosteen posted:iwc, if people work to avoid boredom or death, then that shows that people are motivated by fear of pain, not pleasure
yeah its pretty clear that all life is motivated by fear of pain above all else. even shit like nematodes and things without central nervous systems universally avoid pain as a reflex, but they dont necessarily seek pleasure. and the Death Drive is a mischaracterized concept. its not the literal seeking of death (in fact you would not even exist on a basic evolutionary basis if the overwhelming majority of your biological ancestors all the way back to the primordial ooze had not incessantly clung to life like a swollen tick), it is the seeking of the nullification of the senses, itself the pure avoidance of pain
even the self-infliction of immediate physical pain (tattoos, cutting) is easily explained by subsequent nullification of sensitivity due to neurological threshold saturation, and the resulting endorphin response
all human pleasure is nothing more than the relieving of a pre-existing pain.
Superabound posted:mongosteen posted:iwc, if people work to avoid boredom or death, then that shows that people are motivated by fear of pain, not pleasure
yeah its pretty clear that all life is motivated by fear of pain above all else. even shit like nematodes and things without central nervous systems universally avoid pain as a reflex, but they dont necessarily seek pleasure. and the Death Drive is a mischaracterized concept. its not the literal seeking of death (in fact you would not even exist on a basic evolutionary basis if the overwhelming majority of your biological ancestors all the way back to the primordial ooze had not incessantly clung to life like a swollen tick), it is the seeking of the nullification of the senses, itself the pure avoidance of pain
even the self-infliction of immediate physical pain (tattoos, cutting) is easily explained by subsequent nullification of sensitivity due to neurological threshold saturation, and the resulting endorphin response
all human pleasure is nothing more than the relieving of a pre-existing pain.
i downvoted your post because i thoguht it was dumb sry
