The question then is this: is ANY connection in this space "Good"? Or, to reach our potential, to free ourselves of the psychic strictures the World Wide Web has cast over humanity for most of MY life (and possibly, Dear Reader, for all of YOURS).... must we switch off? Must we unplug, tune out?
And if so: Should I delete ALL of my accounts?
These are the thoughts I am very seriously having at the moment I type these things. Disregard any pretension you perceive (rightly?) in my posting style, at least when it comes to divining my seriousness, because I mean it when I tell you, friends, that I have never been MORE serious about account deletion, in a clear-headed moment not inspired by a dispute with a fellow poster. Continuing to participate in even THE BEST forum, which this OBVIOUSLY is, feels right now like a capitulation to the aforementioned death-drive. Am I content to literally die having achieved nothing, in my own estimation, of any worth? Or am I willing to take the risk of eschewing all internet-based socialisation for a chance to regain my humanity on a deeper level? Not like, in a luddite way though. I still need my blender
Edited by swampman ()
with the continuing slide of the country into overt fascism & the police apparatus beginning to restart cointelpro programs, i recently decided to begin a general information security audit of my online life. that included deleting facebook, and even blacklisting their IPs on my pihole to prevent any further accumulation of a shadow profile (even without a facebook account, visiting any website with a facebook widget - which is almost everything these days - will tag your IP as visiting the site along with your browser fingerprint, etc.). i also switched to linux from windows for daily use, with full system encryption, as well as learning how to use pseudo-anonymity networks like tor (which despite funding from the US state dept. for use in spying still has legitimate use to prevent surveillance since the core network methodology holds strong imo). honestly if things got really grim i wouldn't mind the rhizzone having an onion site.
anyway, all that said, i believe the positive of being able to easily network with other leftists around the globe far outweighs the negative social and mental ramifications of internet posting. the challenge is moving off of websites glued to a profit motive that not only gamify the more negative aspects to keep you logged in and clicking, but farms your information to sell to advertisers (or possibly hand over to police departments) into more secure and encrypted channels. what we need is more literacy in regards to computer and information security.
Edited by Horselord ()
When I see internet leftist stuff online, and then when I think about what would be most concerning from the perspective of, like, the Atlantic Council, I don't suspect it'd be just the random, noisy stuff or leftists squabbling over historical questions. If I were in their shoes what would concern me is Max Blumenthal building an audience because he's lifting up stones those guys want to stay planted firmly in the ground. There's another guy, Carl Zha, who is just this surfer dude who lives in Bali and has a Chinese history podcast. And I don't know what his personal politics are but he challenges the Yellow Peril hysteria that is being promoted by the usual government sources, and these shady cutout rags have gone after him with hit pieces. That is scary because he's just a guy on Twitter, and if they do that to him, they'll do it to anyone and much worse, but we already knew that. But he's still posting. He's a player and wants to be in the game and is he going to stop because some dweebs published a nasty article in Bellingsquat? I don't think so.
Acdtrux posted:Perhaps some aspects of aerdil's comment could be framed dialectically. First, as f_h_i_s_a notes, the internet is indispensably associated with Amerikkkan intellectuals and research. But, aerdil points out that an antithesis of this is provided by the U$ Navy itself -- tor. Another example is RSA, the basis of TLS (Https). What is the synthesis here? I think that to the extent that the online constitutes any non-negligible area of social space, we should co-opt this as a productive communist space.
as that quote misattributed to lenin goes, "The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.”
While "dropping out" may not be the best approach, I don't believe that this level of sophistication can be defeated by willpower or ideology, so the creation of some sort of alternate social and community connection seems necessary. The problem with a society where people spend 20-30% of their waking hours doing something, it becomes impossible to think outside of that construct.
Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia posted:I started crafting thoughtful responses to lots of different points all of you have made itt but I think I'll just leave the OP as my legacy here. I don't claim to have realised anything universal but it is true, I think, for me, that the web is bad for me to participate in. I will continue to use the internet for private communication and to that end I am happy to receive PMs from anyone who wants to keep talking.
dizastar posted:this narrative that the internet amplifies the mean side of people needs to go honestly. it breaks down as soon as one gets reminded that theres millions if not billions of people using tools like whatsapp/facebook to communicate with family or friends whose ties with should otherwise be cut because of migration.
What you're talking about using the internet as a supplementary form of communication between people who know each other in real life
what I'm talking about is complex online communities forming of people who don't know each other irl
it seems pretty obvious the drastically different circumstances under which these relationships are created and maintained has an effect
hit me up if yr on coub - that's all i'm on
Talking about either as an abstract benefit in a tally of pros and cons is not Marxist, consistently erases class, etc. They’re both mechanisms of control, though that control can never be total. It’s why places like this site are allowed to exist after showing up in the Wa$hington Po$t, in addition to our vast collective influence and charisma of course.
winebaby posted:the internet has been 1,000,000% more radicalizing than <10 kind-of marxist professors in higher education occasionally admitting that marx existed. i do not think "Just Sever" will have meaningful effect in world where you would be the only person doing that aside from your one paranoid aunt and the uncontacted tribes in the highlands of new guinea
You could say that the internet has created a flatter, more connected world that creates the basis for democratic rights
cars posted:Thinking of that one guy on here whose av was friedman pushing a dick away like no sirree bob!! Classic stuff.
those were the days... .
winebaby posted:the internet has been 1,000,000% more radicalizing than <10 kind-of marxist professors in higher education occasionally admitting that marx existed. i do not think "Just Sever" will have meaningful effect in world where you would be the only person doing that aside from your one paranoid aunt and the uncontacted tribes in the highlands of new guinea
i dont think that this is true. widespread internet use has been around for a long time now but back then all it amounted to was obama hype or some shit. if there is any radicalization in the US it is due more to the deteriorating conditions in the US than the easier access internet provides. not to mention that the leftist noise on the internet is a fraction of the lib noise or far right noise
sovnarkoman posted:i dont think that this is true. widespread internet use has been around for a long time now but back then all it amounted to was obama hype or some shit. if there is any radicalization in the US it is due more to the deteriorating conditions in the US than the easier access internet provides. not to mention that the leftist noise on the internet is a fraction of the lib noise or far right noise
I agree that our present economic and social conditions are the cause of leftist resurgence. And the death of boomer ancedents, of course. However, marxist texts are now widely available, unsuppressable, and I think that is whence you will get a revolutionary vanguard, maybe. Some day. Will everybody who has ever ordered anything from AK press get lined up against a wall when the nascent american revolution inevitably takes on fascist characteristics? Maybe! If that happens, I will private message you to concede the correctness of your views in this thread.
sovnarkoman posted:i dont think that this is true. widespread internet use has been around for a long time now but back then all it amounted to was obama hype or some shit. if there is any radicalization in the US it is due more to the deteriorating conditions in the US than the easier access internet provides. not to mention that the leftist noise on the internet is a fraction of the lib noise or far right noise
does anyone know what the fuck was up with ron paul mania
Horselord posted:does anyone know what the fuck was up with ron paul mania
yes
but anyone can do that, not just me learning about how to fix 1930s bike gears or w/e. its a huge opportunity for the most deranged bullshit to happen too, which is why in every high school in the english speaking world theres 1 extremely fucked up kid who can give you a rote speech about "femoids". In the old days geographically distant fucked up people couldn't sync up and make each other worse
i don't know if its a worthwhile trade. even if online has given an equal advantage to everything, it's still made history go faster than it was before. i'd like it to slow down because i'm tired all the time
winebaby posted:I agree that our present economic and social conditions are the cause of leftist resurgence. And the death of boomer ancedents, of course. However, marxist texts are now widely available, unsuppressable, and I think that is whence you will get a revolutionary vanguard, maybe. Some day. Will everybody who has ever ordered anything from AK press get lined up against a wall when the nascent american revolution inevitably takes on fascist characteristics? Maybe! If that happens, I will private message you to concede the correctness of your views in this thread.
maybe i m way too online but it seems like so far this easy access mostly brought morons online googling "what did marx say about deng xiaoping" "what did lenin say about the uyghurs" etc and picking up a few quotes and firing them off at each other and saying "based" to quotes they side with
Edited by sovnarkoman ()
Horselord posted:i said "sync up and make each other worse". they're not disconnected anymore, they've pretty clearly collaborating on their ideas and form a subculture and a belief system with it's own vocabulary. i shouldn't have to explain to you why it's dangerous for people who really need professional help to have their own support network telling them that the sickness is actually visionary genius.
The only difference the internet creates is letting RSS and AfD cadres talk to and support each other through retweets, which is trivial unless they don't have a life outside the internet, which is a mental issue having nothing to do with the internet. They talked within their local irl groups before the internet and are doing so after it.