#161
*sings* i love my bed and mom and not my gf,
#162
regime change trots make me laugh, if anyone they deserve the title of Leftism But For Whites Only the most. the way they claim to follow a bolshevik ideologue and sound indistinguishable from the most decietful imperialists suggests the whole thing is a psy op
#163

Caesura109 posted:

suggests the whole thing is a psy op


I had a conversation with a friend about this recently too when we were discussing that moderate rebels ep. I don't think trotskyism is entirely a baroque conspiracy (though the ISO itself is extremely sketchy and probably run by a collaboration of intelligence ops.) It's an "organic" result of white settlers who 1) recognize the human necessity of communism 2) still believe western imperialist propaganda because they were raised in it and the alternative is confronting their own complicity with capitalism 3) are too proud and narcissistic to resolve that contradiction and consequently 4) attack anyone who reminds them of that contradiction to chase away the painful cognitive dissonance.

These tendencies would exist even without being egged on by counterintelligence sabotage, though it's a certainty that western intelligence organizations take advantage of it and encourage it.

#164
my impression of the ISO when i interacted with them was that its local branches were run by young people who had been trained in some kind of Trot activist boot camp to be the sort of “pushy” & purposely socially tone-deaf that semi-works if you’re a manager in a company and your underlings have to put up with you to collect a check, but doesn’t work at all if you’re a micro-sect of Trots trying to LARP entryism in the 21st century.

this leaves me agnostic as to whether they’re as directly controlled & manipulated by U.S. feds at a higher level as certain earlier Trot groups have been revealed to be, because my impression is that the sort of people ISO attracts / creates don’t have to be handled that closely to cause problems through just their existing ideology, which seems to say that people in poverty-wracked neighborhoods love 1) local cops and 2) a bunch of strangers marching through carrying copies of the exact same confusing sign, which is how you build socialism.

also, because if their pseudo-autist boot camp were run by actual dirty-tricks experts at high-level federal pay grades, you’d think they’d be better at their jobs. but that may be assuming too much interest on the part of those folks, because while the police state is deadly and dangerous as can be in the U.S., probably at least 50% of anti-left domestic activity in the U.S. is still a giant scam to pay cops to file false make-work reports and get drunk at conferences, if there’s such a thing as ISO duty, that’s gotta be easy street because Western Trots psych themselves out for free.
#165
That's sort of what I meant to say, there doesn't need to be a deep complicated conspiracy because the trot machine runs itself just fine with an occasional gentle nudge in the right direction: it's settler politics for a settler society. I know less about the ISO's on the ground membership since I'm not in the states and don't encounter them, but their upper leadership and "thought leaders" (associated journalists, academics, conference-going organizers) are extremely suspicious to me.
#166
overall, though, since no one has anything to lose by shutting ISO out from whatever they’re doing, and they potentially have a lot to lose by allowing them in, i’d recommend everyone just adopt “ghost ISO” as a hard & fast policy.

don’t tell ISO anything, no times, no places, nothing. when they pester you to give them a seat at the table, ignore them, act like you never knew they contacted you. nothing they can offer will be worth it. they’re pretty much the only group i’d say that about in a total, blanket way, although i’m sure there are others who deserve it, ISO is just the one with which i’m familiar.
#167
there was absolutely no boot camp or cadre development program in iso when i took over a branch and ran it into the ground years ago. they seemed to hardly even notice the evaporation of branch membership and assets and their condensation into iso-hostile orgs and independent local movements.

pushy/tone-deaf folks sorta floated to the top without training. the sort of people ISO attracts / creates don’t have to be handled that closely to cause problems through just their existing personality.

the lack of professionalism and personal favoritism that guide the national leadership seem like it'd be hard to fabricate;i don't think they need nudges from the feds to be how they are.

cars' advice is good, there's p much nothing productive that can come of interacting w them
#168
Entering Entryism: The Five-Year Rhizzone Entryist Plan To Dekulakize Copiers & Cartridges (2018), Part I Ch 1 "ISO Toner",
#169

ialdabaoth posted:

there was absolutely no boot camp or cadre development program in iso when i took over a branch and ran it into the ground years ago. they seemed to hardly even notice the evaporation of branch membership and assets and their condensation into iso-hostile orgs and independent local movements.

pushy/tone-deaf folks sorta floated to the top without training. the sort of people ISO attracts / creates don’t have to be handled that closely to cause problems through just their existing personality.

the lack of professionalism and personal favoritism that guide the national leadership seem like it'd be hard to fabricate;i don't think they need nudges from the feds to be how they are.

cars' advice is good, there's p much nothing productive that can come of interacting w them


did you do anything cool when you ran the branch into the ground

#170
getfiscal namedrop in the new chapo episode lol
#171
i did sex.
#172
I have a suspicion that at least one of the hosts of that show were an OG LF poster
#173

lo posted:

did you do anything cool when you ran the branch into the ground



no it really wasn't fun or cool at the time. i did encourage the rump of the branch to join a faction opposed to the national leadership that wound up getting ejected from the org after i bowed out

#174

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

i did sex.


dont do it again

#175

Caesura109 posted:

I have a suspicion that at least one of the hosts of that show were an OG LF poster


Yep it's the vaguely sad one who doesn't practice self-criticism on their facial hair

#176

swampman posted:

Yep it's the vaguely sad one who doesn't practice self-criticism on their facial hair


deep lmao

#177
hmm. that makes it sound better than Discourse Collective, where everyone talks like they were definitely a white noise sa poster for their entire lives, to the point where i can't really listen to it. i just keep thinking "i hope i don't sound like this"
#178
i been listen to these moderaterebels podcasts and you know they been pretty intersting and not at all as obnoxious as i've found most podcats to be. thanks for therecomnedation shriekingviolet

Edited by ialdabaoth ()

#179
"citations needed" is also bueno. https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded
#180
*utters a dark lmao*
#181

tears posted:

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

i did sex.

dont do it again



no it really wasn't fun or cool at the time. i did encourage the rump of the branch to join a faction opposed to the national leadership that wound up getting ejected from the org after i bowed out

#182
geez lol
#183

Themselves posted:

"citations needed" is also bueno. https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded



idk if im just in a good mood or what but this also been good listening. maybe im just not used to hearing people talk about thing while not havin really disgusting reductionist opinions, sorta theraputioc

#184
idk how to say your name so in my head its just "i had a bath" i hope thats okay.
#185
its just a southern-style slur of contractions but u do u
#186
I really enjoy RevLeftRadio, even though he's one of those cornball "unite the left" types and seems to be going for the "cool camp counselor" vibe. Episode quality varies but it's usually worthwhile. He also seems to have recently been converted from Anarchism to Maoism by JMP and a few others, so that's nice
#187
apologies to cars for having the bad take on the moderate rebel crowd a while back. i listened to the episode and they seem to be doing now what i didn't think they would in terms of prodding that link between settler mythology, white supremacy, liberal essentialism, orientalism, and the current anti-authoritarian posturing of left interventionists. wish the episode had been longer
#188
yeah if I recall correctly there is a twitter Tendency that really sees Blumenthal and Norton as psyops since they both supported the Libyan intervention fairly early on, though I think that was probably a result of actually failing to see past the propaganda narratives and not the kind of malice which actual left interventionists are so good at converting into something respectable sounding. And that any change in their politics since then is a recuperation tactic that will allow them to muddy the waters within the anti-imperialist camp The Next Time It Happens. I however am willing to give people a little more rope than that so that they may either hang or harness themselves in the future, owing to my grand magnanimosity of spirit, and I think that the change is really a result of moving from the ideological confines of a vague "leftism" imposed by them on their proto-bourgeois journalism careers before they crossed a line they couldn't perceive but that Everybody Knew About and got ethered, into the realm of real, honest to god, Made in U.S.A. marxist theory.
I also have never listened to their podcast and never will lol

Edited by neckwattle ()

#189

neckwattle posted:

yeah if I recall correctly there is a twitter Tendency that really sees Blumenthal and Norton as psyops since they both supported the Libyan intervention fairly early on,



imo it's a bunch of insecure purity bullshit (if people change their minds they're vectors of attack somehow), pure paranoia or, at best, an understandable skittishness about infiltration that needs to rein itself in. there are probably dozens of points where i disagree with those guys, but it seems incredibly unlikely they blacklisted themselves from much of the media where they previously appeared to further some sort of "sheep dip" cop agenda, and there's no evidence of it at all. if everyone has to come out of the womb an anti-imperialist to be considered one, then there are none, not even in the post-colonial world

of course none of that precludes them being wrong in the future but that's probably the weakest argument i've heard for condemning them so far, because this has hardly been some Democrat business where the entire public turns against the invasion of Iraq and then pundits follow them, which is how you knew they'd snap back to the spook camp for Libya, Yemen, Syria, etc. instead these folks have adopted incredibly unpopular positions in their home countries from what those countries' discourse consider radical positions of critique, and if someone wants to explain to me how they're using them to destroy anti-imperialist politics from within, actually doing that, i'm all ears

#190
anyway i recommend reading critically in every case... no excuses
#191
that's everything I was trying to say. thank you cars

Edited by neckwattle ()

#192
https://onmasspodcast.com/
#193
champagne sharks did an amazing series of podcasts on white supremacy and class based sexual abuse and exploitation and its intersection w material abuse and exploitation which is remarkably jargonfree and reveals that one does not have to read Settlers in order to have "read Settlers"

https://soundcloud.com/champagnesharks/cs-083-the-throwaway-people-pt-1-04032018
https://soundcloud.com/champagnesharks/cs-085-the-throwaway-people-pt-2-04032018
https://soundcloud.com/champagnesharks/cs-087-the-throwaway-people-pt-3-04032018

cw: jeffrey dahmer
#194
i will never tire of listening to ames and dolan talk shit about brown moses
#195
been listening to Delete Your Account. the cohost is the little brother of an acquaintance/former coworker of mine, he's sorta irritating sometimes but i feel vicariously proud that he's doing decent stuff
#196
Calling someone a Regime Change Trot is like calling it an ATM Machine
#197
mic dicta, america's best-named legal podcast, somehow hasn't been posted about here even though i thought this was where i'd heard about it.
#198
http://www.metisinspace.com/

This one is a fave. Two indigenous women do post colonial analysis on various shows and movies. They will never run out of colonial nerratives in sci fi. Nice work if you can get it.

I am also a moderate rebels fan. Thanks shrieking violet.



#199
i cant enjoy to podcasts for the same reason i cant enjoy television but some people i know enjoy "Rustbelt Abolition Radio, a prison abolition podcast. seems appropriate in light of the prison strike.
#200
Radio War Nerd had a good and long episode about the Uyghurs in China, the recent history of uneven development and islamic revivalism, the education camps etc.