even if this wasn't a false flag there is no reason that erdogan can't treat it as such and use it to further the AKP's policies. given that the coup seems to originate from a CIA-aligned faction angry at his warming up to russia, what exactly those policies will be (other than anti-kurdish, that's a safe bet) is the question.
aerdil posted:the US diplomat to turkey was just on aljazeera pretty much saying "The US doesn't support coups as a matter of policy.
the amount of information is overwhelming. this age is a mess.
xipe posted:
that's what i said
*cough cough*
state dept called it an uprising at first and only came out as pro democracy when it failed
e: emabssy sorry
Edited by xipe ()
xipe posted:state dept called it an uprising at first and only came out as pro democracy when it failed
e: emabssy sorry
i'm sure that's from the top secret branding memos that would have gone out immediately as it was happening with Surprisingly Prescient Details
insurrectionists? rebels? I feel like there should be a word like... coupistes. coupers
And yeah now "reinstated" Erdogan has fired hundreds of judges. which you can't do without a little advance planning. next up is probably lots of opposition members being arrested for the coup.
drwhat posted:is english missing a word for people who are involved in a coup? or am i just stupid and hungover today
insurrectionists? rebels? I feel like there should be a word like... coupistes. coupers
conspirators
- what's really up with the PKK? it is sold as a people's uprising of Kurds but the only people who seem to promote it seem full of propaganda and i know no one at the 'zzone has any time for them
- those same people are now pushing the line that Erdogan set this up to change a bunch of policies in ways that are anti-Kurd and anti-Human Rights
- it seems an independent new Kurdish state would be much more NATO-friendly and anti-Russia than Turkey, and That's Convenient
- hmm
Edited by drwhat ()
I think the PKK and western powers are probably using each other to some extent. Kurds are pretty oppressed and know if they oppose the western powers they'll be crushed, while the west finds them very useful as opposition to regional powers they don't like. I'm sure there are legitimate communists, anarchists, etc. in the ranks there but if they ever did achieve a state it'd probably end up being NATO collaborators in control, although that's not to say all the entire make-up there is CIA collaborators or a fake left stalking horse.
I'm highly skeptical of the idea that Erdogan set up a false flag coup on himself complete with Skyping into the news on a phone. The idea is just a little too tinfoil for me if it's not backed by any evidence except the coup's failure and actions he's taking post-coup. He's pretty fascist so he's definitely going to use this failed coup as currency to further consolidate power but he could do so in the wake of a real coup as well. I think the coup was what it looked like, people who see themselves as caretakers of democratic ideals deciding that Erdogan has gone too far. While I'm not opposed to those ideals I also think the plotters would never have done this if Erdogan was more popular with the west, like the KSA, and it also likely wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been talking rapproachement with Syria and Iraq. If the coup was stronger or held control I don't think Obama, etc. would have continued to condemn it, and indeed their condemnation was pretty measured and never mentioned supporting Erdogan by name.
After he returned from Ethiopia, Erdogan went on his comments about the subject in a television program and said that the “deep state” dates back to the time of the Ottomans, but it should be minimized and eliminated if possible.
The Communist Party is calling on our people to organize in the Party's ranks against the enemies of the people and humanity.
The liberation is in our own hands.
We do not have all the details of what happened during the coup attempt that took place in Turkey in the hours between July 15 and July 16.
However, we know very well that plans that are supported by foreign forces, that do not take its power from the working class can not defeat AKP darkness and solve Turkey's problems.
The events of today reminded us the following reality once again: Either the people of Turkey will organize and get rid of AKP or AKP's reactionary policies will intensify, repression will increase, massacres, the plunder and theft will continue.
The only power that can overthrow AKP is the people's power, there is no alternative to it.
AKP is responsible for all that took place tonight. All the factors that led to the current situation and the conditions are the product of AKP's rule and the domestic and foreign bosses that support AKP.
However, the fact that the main responsible party is AKP does not mean that the coup attempt was one that was orchestrated by Erdogan himself in order to achieve his objectives such as paving the path to an executive presidency or clearing the obstacles facing the new constitution.
The tension and the rivalries between different groups within the state and the armed forces that have been known to exist for a while have turned into armed conflict. While the tension between these forces is real, it is a lie that any of the sides in this conflict represent the interests of the people. Following this, searching for the solution against AKP's rule in a military coup is as wrong as lending any support to AKP under the guise of taking a position against military coups for whatever reason. The last thing that should be done in the name of supporting freedom and human rights in Turkey is to lend support to AKP which has proven over and over that it is an enemy of humanity.
While they have not orchestrated this coup, Erdoğan and AKP will make an effort to use the resulting conditions and the support they received as means to increase their legitimacy. Our people should be on the alert against steps that AKP will be certain to take in the days to come. Raising the struggle against AKP and its darkness is the only way to stop this failed coup attempt resulting in AKP's solidifying its rule and turning into a tool for transforming AKP's unstable Turkey into stability. The fact that all mosques in Turkey have broadcasted continuous Erdoğan propaganda the whole night is a concrete indication of the urgency of our task at hand.
The Communist Party is calling on our people to organize in the Party's ranks against the enemies of the people and humanity.
The liberation is in our own hands.
Communist Party, Turkey
https://www.kp.org.tr/en/basin-aciklamalari/there-no-alternative-people-en-es
cars posted:if this did come out of the military originally they tend to see themselves as exactly the opposite of caretakers of democratic ideals, and instead as corralling a bunch of idiot cattle into line with cattle prods who would otherwise barrel blindly off a cliff
well, it's a military coup, by its very nature it's undemocratic so i don't mean to ascribe too much good will to them. i just meant that i am willing to believe it could have been, in part, authentically in response to erdogan overreach. it's obviously early to say for sure