cars posted:
quoting this because i like the diversion but the thread topic is that british people surround themselves with people and products that look like a mr wizard segment
Petrol posted:xipe posted:Cool why don't you pair snort and sigh and roll your eyes whenever this silly joke concept of imperialism is brought up since it obviously has nothing to do with leftism
What purpose do you think it serves to analyse the extent to which the victim of this fascist assassination served imperialism? In what way does it change the nature of the act? How should this inform our response?
I was responding to that guy who said she was a leftist by pointing out she was an imperialist and therefore not a leftist, that's all.
I'm a bit surprised why this would be dismissed as pedantry and indignant Condemnation be demanded on the stalinist irony forum.
Interesting to me how the person killed by fascist today was an active part in a mass murdering fascist army and network, but to you that's the punchline of a joke
GUV'NOR: Oi now as your peepers can ken little wogling this strip of ordinary children's Chemichew actually contains many dangerous chemicals
YUSUF: (flashes back to mosul)
xipe posted:Petrol posted:xipe posted:Cool why don't you pair snort and sigh and roll your eyes whenever this silly joke concept of imperialism is brought up since it obviously has nothing to do with leftism
What purpose do you think it serves to analyse the extent to which the victim of this fascist assassination served imperialism? In what way does it change the nature of the act? How should this inform our response?
I was responding to that guy who said she was a leftist by pointing out she was an imperialist and therefore not a leftist, that's all.
I'm a bit surprised why this would be dismissed as pedantry and indignant Condemnation be demanded on the stalinist irony forum.
Interesting to me how the person killed by fascist today was an active part in a mass murdering fascist army and network, but to you that's the punchline of a joke
The joke is your posts and Im looking forward to the punchline
xipe posted:You 2 are obviously on some kind of kool aid but I have faith you will snap out of it
You said you only raised her not-left-enoughness in response to someone saying she was left wing. Which is rubbish because Panopticon described her as being a labour MP on the left of the party. Since then you have literally only posted about her imperialism (which nobody here has denied), and now that she was "an active part of a mass murdering fascist army and network". That line would be laughable ultraleftist hyperbole on a good day, and today is not a particularly good day. What you haven't posted is anything funny or useful, let alone a response to my quite reasonable questions about what your fucking point is.
i am not getting dragged in to a debate about ~what it all means~ beacuse i need time to assess that myself, i was doing something very simple which is pointing out the framing of her as left is wrong (by someone who most likely does deny her imperialism)
i'm curious how you expect to think clearly yourself or discuss anything when you reverse the meaning of words to a liberal framework when challenged?
warmongers are now the Left and we need to show solidarity with them, the oceans of blood they have spilled and are currently spilling are instantly forgotten and opposing that process is ultraleftism? bizarro land.
this 'lady' was one of the main war lobbyists in one of the main warmonger nations as well as part of a pro war human rights NGO, 2 key elements of and actually existing mass murdering fascism.
simply pointing out the meanings of basic terms and background info to bear in mind has caused you to throw all sorts of accusations so maybe lay off on whatever youre huffing
xipe posted:amazing how once it Happens To Us the script is flipped entirely and terms like 'the left' 'imperialism' and 'ultraleft' are set to mean their exact opposite.
i am not getting dragged in to a debate about ~what it all means~ beacuse i need time to assess that myself, i was doing something very simple which is pointing out the framing of her as left is wrong (by someone who most likely does deny her imperialism)
i'm curious how you expect to think clearly yourself or discuss anything when you reverse the meaning of words to a liberal framework when challenged?
warmongers are now the Left and we need to show solidarity with them, the oceans of blood they have spilled and are currently spilling are instantly forgotten and opposing that process is ultraleftism? bizarro land.
this 'lady' was one of the main war lobbyists in one of the main warmonger nations as well as part of a pro war human rights NGO, 2 key elements of and actually existing mass murdering fascism.
simply pointing out the meanings of basic terms and background info to bear in mind has caused you to throw all sorts of accusations so maybe lay off on whatever youre huffing
literally nobody outside of your imagination is denying her imperialism, as i have told you several times now. none of that has any bearing on the meaning and impact of the assassination, which is as much an act of propaganda as an act of physical violence, and one whose symbolic meaning is of immediate importance.
this is an attack by a fascist on the left. the victim was a member of what Panopticon correctly identified as the left (faction) of the Labour Party, a perfect example of the acceptable mainstream 'left', and therefore a perfect SYMBOL for the left as a whole, regardless of the reality of her bourgeois liberalism and imperialism.
faced with this reality, good praxis means standing and fighting alongside antifascist comrades, to respond no, this kind of intimidation will not be effective, and fascism will in fact be smashed rather than debated with or tolerated.
but you go ahead and keep telling yourself you are right about how to define words, and what is important to keep in mind and discuss right now, even though you're so extremely wrong, you fucking useless nerd.
xipe posted:i am not getting dragged in to a debate about ~what it all means~ beacuse i need time to assess that myself,
like, maybe shut the fuck up and dont post again until youve done this.
c_man posted:your point is "Fascists assassinating politicians for not being fascist enough is actually good" which is psychopathic
it would be psychopathic, if he were making that point, which he isn't. not showing solidarity with libs and socdems (though petrol's right) is not the same as advocating for nazi murder, nor does it approach it, and if you'd give your fellow posters the tiniest benefit of the doubt you might notice this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/18/jo-cox-mp-shot-thomas-mair-arrives-at-court-following-murder-cha/ posted:Asked to state his name for the court, Mr Mair said only: “Death to traitors freedom for Britain”.
The court heard that moments after being held by two police officers following the shooting of Mrs Cox, Mr Mair stated: “I am an apolitical activist” and that material “relating to extreme right wing and white supremacist organisations” was found at his home, along with newspaper articles about the MP.
In a summary of the case against Mr Mair, prosecuting counsel David Cawthorne told the court that Mrs Cox was attacked as she was leaving a surgery for constituents at Birstall Library, in Market Street, West Yorkshire, at around 12.45 last Thursday.
After being repeatedly stabbed the MP was shot three times as she lay on the ground, Mr Cawthorne told the court.
He added: “The defendant continued to stab Mrs Cox as she lay fighting for her life. Whilst doing so the defendant was heard to say words to the effect of ‘Britain first, keep Britain independent, Britain always comes first, this is for Britain.”
88888 posted:c_man posted:your point is "Fascists assassinating politicians for not being fascist enough is actually good" which is psychopathic
it would be psychopathic, if he were making that point, which he isn't. not showing solidarity with libs and socdems (though petrol's right) is not the same as advocating for nazi murder, nor does it approach it, and if you'd give your fellow posters the tiniest benefit of the doubt you might notice this
The assassin clearly thought she was a cultural marxist, miscegenist race traitor or whatever. That she actually was a plain liberal and the neonazi hallucinated red radicalism where there was none, is immaterial to the immediate fact of the neonazi assassination. This was clearly directed at larger leftist and pro-refugee trends in Britain and not just about this liberal MP personally, and not showing solidarity on those grounds is very weird.
Similarly, Breivik assassinated all those young people for far-right, racist, anticommunist reasons and not showing solidarity with them just because they belonged to a social-democratic party would be crazy.
Edited by COINTELBRO ()
swampman posted:I think that Cox died in part because social-democratic groups suffer extreme right wing groups to exist, yet at the same time, I'm not happy they were assassinated. Who wants to fight me
I dont want to fight anyone since hearing everyone from David "The Pig Fucker" Cameron to Generic Guardian Columnist explain that it was hate that killed Jo Cox, and we all just need to be more civil in our political discourse. To that end, next time I see a cranky looking nazi, I'm going to ask if he wants a cup of tea and a chat, maybe a neck rub
Petrol posted:maybe a neck rub
xipe posted:stop being such a child petrol of course we need to organise and destroy these fascists but mobilised in solidarity with syria is a much better antifa position to be in than alliance with liberals
what the fuck are you talking about
Did i ever say "fuck syria, we can only fight nazis now"? No
Did i ever say "the way to fight nazis is to ally with liberals/socdems/wet pieces of paper with swastikas scrawled on them"? No
What i did say is that caring about what the dead woman actually supported, as opposed to why she was killed, is counterproductive as fuck
But sure, feel free to ignore me, since im being a child. Enjoy trying to papercut nazis to death with jo cox memorial charity receipts
xipe posted:the white helmets
Crow posted:The White Helmets are an American NGO who aim at establishing a no-fly zone in Syria by pushing chlorine barrel bomb stories. Now...what are these guys doing with Jabhat al-Nusra at an execution in Haritan (North of Aleppo)?
