littlegreenpills posted:

we build a society where people end up doing things that are bad for them

we are then mean to them for doing those things

the above post identifies the wrong problem

any society will result in some subset of people doing things that are bad for them. being mean to them for it is desirable

littlegreenpills posted:

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

we build a society where people end up doing things that are bad for them

we are then mean to them for doing those things

the above post identifies the wrong problem

any society will result in some subset of people doing things that are bad for them

that remains to be seen. personal agency hasn't actually existed in any meaningful sense since agriculture was invented

examples of societies with people doing things that are bad for them predate agriculture

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

we build a society where people end up doing things that are bad for them

we are then mean to them for doing those things

the above post identifies the wrong problem

any society will result in some subset of people doing things that are bad for them

that remains to be seen. personal agency hasn't actually existed in any meaningful sense since agriculture was invented

examples of societies with people doing things that are bad for them predate agriculture

yeah but they had personal agency so it was their own fault

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

i don't deny that it's harder, i deny the mechanisms most commonly offered, which is that they're too busy or it's a rational economic calculation, rather than that poverty leads to depression, substance abuse and generally not giving a shit

this is what i mean about personal agency having no meaningful existence in class society

getfiscal posted:

if you want to change it so people aren't encouraged to eat bad food, it would seem useful to start by restricting the billions poured every year into promoting that they eat bad food through advertising, rather than attacking some random mother who picks up chips when her child glows with hope for them

less advertizing more fuggin' corn subsidies imo

HenryKrinkle posted:

i think a lot of it has to do with the stress and depression of being poor. i mean if you're working multiple low-wage shifts and/or can't afford some of the basic necessities of life you might be more likely to gorge on shitty food for instant gratification. the same goes for drug abuse.

FWIW it's a myth that poor people eat a disproportionate amount of fast food.

i've yet to see any evidence that "being too busy" is a statistically significant factor in obesity, considering the vast percentages of the obese amongst those who don't work at all for whatever reason

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

getfiscal posted:

if you want to change it so people aren't encouraged to eat bad food, it would seem useful to start by restricting the billions poured every year into promoting that they eat bad food through advertising, rather than attacking some random mother who picks up chips when her child glows with hope for them

sure, let's ban advertising. whoops. turns out humans are biological organisms which crave fat, sugar and salt, and advertising attempts to direct those urges to make them buy one fat-heavy product over another, but does not create the underlying problem. well at least we did fuckall

okay but your logic in mocking them is that it will somehow encourage them to not eat unhealthy food, so apparently you believe your fat jokes are a more powerful force in shaping consciousness than advertising? hate to break it to you goat but u might not be that clever

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

getfiscal posted:

i don't see the qualitative difference between this and telling poors not to stuff their bloated children full of salted poison which i am told is extremely rude and condescending. can we resolve this discrepancy

it's good you mention feeding shitty food to children because that's the only way you have the connection here of inflicting something on another party. but even then, im pretty sure fetal alcohol syndrome and shit is permanent while eating gross foods is not. also i think it's much easier to categorically say "you shouldnt drink while pregnant" than it is to say "you shouldnt eat doritos"

buyt what are you even arguing here and why does it matter, like i think youre arguing against excuse-making about food deserts and advertising and poverty? so would you be happy if people just stopped saying these things and said theres no excuse for being obese, because and this kind of connects to aerdils post above i dont really believe that would have any impact on actual obesity.

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

i just hate people so much ilmdge

my friend mike had some good advice here: start with the man in the mirror.

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

that sounds like terrible advice

i can't remember but i think his life turned out alright... something about a big house, whatever

aerdil posted:

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

getfiscal posted:

if you want to change it so people aren't encouraged to eat bad food, it would seem useful to start by restricting the billions poured every year into promoting that they eat bad food through advertising, rather than attacking some random mother who picks up chips when her child glows with hope for them

sure, let's ban advertising. whoops. turns out humans are biological organisms which crave fat, sugar and salt, and advertising attempts to direct those urges to make them buy one fat-heavy product over another, but does not create the underlying problem. well at least we did fuckall

okay but your logic in mocking them is that it will somehow encourage them to not eat unhealthy food, so apparently you believe your fat jokes are a more powerful force in shaping consciousness than advertising? hate to break it to you goat but u might not be that clever

Sure you got to think globally. But you have to act locally.

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

littlegreenpills posted:

we build a society where people end up doing things that are bad for them

we are then mean to them for doing those things

the above post identifies the wrong problem

any society will result in some subset of people doing things that are bad for them

that remains to be seen. personal agency hasn't actually existed in any meaningful sense since agriculture was invented

examples of societies with people doing things that are bad for them predate agriculture

That's a little bit true. I don't want to sound like a primitivist or romanticize them, but hunter gatherers tended to be much more egalitarian for the most part and when agriculture develops, you start to see more inequalities of all types develop. Their work week was way shorter despite having nowhere near the level of technology or resources that we have today.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_affluent_society

It's not the ideal model but maybe there are some things that can be learned

drwhat posted:

if we accept that marketing removes agency then doesn't the removal of other choices due to planning also remove agency? it sounds like only planners have agency in that case

anyway the lady in the first post is insane and the liberal idea that being disabled and diseased is just as great as being healthy is something people should be strongly and consistently shutting down

sure, but food need not be solely suckled through the planners teat.
Advertising doesn't exist in n-space, its displacing other useful things and ideas. Those three hours a day sent being educated about bullshit products add up.

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

i just hate people so much ilmdge

misanthropy is so fucking lazy, mate. it's the easiest response to the crushing despair that comes with having even a vague idea of how the world works. but, perhaps instead of turning your anger and frustration on the poor, you could focus on the enemy. you won't feel any better but you also won't be making things worse. ganbatte ne