HenryKrinkle posted:http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-oil-idUSKBN0TT2O120151210#kjLHlJWMHIJLoxdQ.99
US is accusing Assad's government of being primary recipient of ISIS oil because of course they are.
whenever the hard facts state that Israel has the highest numbers and material evidence of (pick one: violations of international law, defiance of UN resolutions, apartheid, illegal detention and deportations, ethnic cleansing, genocide, purchasing ISIS oil,) the US is always ready to step up and helpfully tell us that reality is wrong. it's that can-do proactive american spirit!
QUESTION: Even if you accept the Turkish version that the plane traveled 1.3 miles inside Turkey and violated its airspace for 17 seconds – that’s according to Turkey – do you think shooting down the plane was the right thing to do?
MR TONER: Again, I’m not going to give you our assessment at this point. We’re still gathering the facts. What I think is important in the aftermath of this incident – and I’ve said it multiple times today already as the President obviously spoke to it – is de-escalation. We want to see Turkey and Russia talk to each other. We want to see, frankly, these kinds of incidents eliminated going forward.
QUESTION: Yes. In 2012, Syria shot down a Turkish plane that reportedly strayed into its territory. Prime Minister Erdogan then said, “A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack.” Meanwhile, NATO has expressed its condemnation of Syria’s attack as well as strong support for Turkey. Do you see the inconsistency of NATO’s response on this?
MR TONER: As to what President Erdogan may have said after that incident, I would refer you to him. We had, again --
QUESTION: NATO’s condemnation of Syria’s attack --
MR TONER: -- again – hold on, hold on --
QUESTION: -- and the U.S. is part of NATO, so you --
MR TONER: -- hold on, hold on, hold on. What you’re talking about today – we said we’re still gathering the facts. We’re not ready to make a determination yet. We’ve – we know what Turkey says happened. If that’s indeed true, Turkey does – the President said this – have a right to defend its airspace. As others have mentioned, this is not the first such incident. It is part of what happens when you have another power operating on the border of a country, again, carrying out airstrikes that aren’t part of the broader coalition efforts to counter ISIL. But I’m not going to make a determination and I’m not going to talk about incidents that happened three or four years prior.
QUESTION: Just one more --
MR TONER: Please, go ahead.
QUESTION: -- please, thank you.
MR TONER: Yeah.
QUESTION: Turkoman forces in Syria said they killed the two Russian pilots as they descended in parachutes.
MR TONER: Yeah.
QUESTION: Turkoman forces are supported by Turkey and are fighting against the Syrian Government, they are part of the rebel force there. Do you consider these rebels to be a moderate force in Syria?
MR TONER: So a couple of thoughts, one – or a couple points: One is we’ve seen conflicting views, as I think Said just mentioned. We’ve also seen that one pilot may not have been killed. If these were – if these Turkoman were actually the – being attacked by these Russian strikes, they have every right to defend themselves. But that said, we don’t – that said, we don’t know --
QUESTION: And they have the right to shoot at the pilots in parachutes?
MR TONER: We don’t have a clear, clear understanding of everything that happened today, okay? I’ve said that and I can keep saying it all day. We’re still trying to determine what happened. It’s easy to rush to judgments and to make proclamations and declarations after an incident like this. You need to gather the facts, you need to be clear about what happened, what occurred, and again, with the emphasis – where the – where we want the emphasis to be is de-escalating and communications between Turkey and Russia going forward.
....
QUESTION: And in reference – you said – or you don’t know what – obviously, you said several times you don’t know exactly what happened, but you made reference then that these Turkoman rebels, they have the right to defend themselves, yeah? I mean --
MR TONER: It’s unclear to me who was --
QUESTION: So that goes – that goes --
MR TONER: It’s unclear to me whether they were getting the strike – whether they were being struck or not.
QUESTION: Right. That right applies to everyone, does it not? Not just to the rebels who are supported by the West?
MR TONER: I’m not going to – I mean, what are you --
QUESTION: The right to – well, I’m just curious as to --
MR TONER: Where are you going with this?
QUESTION: I’m trying – I mean, do you think that everybody has the right to defend themselves?
MR TONER: We’ve said very clearly that people have the right to defend themselves.
QUESTION: Right? Including the Assad regime?
MR TONER: No.
QUESTION: No? They don’t have the right to defend themselves?
MR TONER: No. Look, there’s a clear – no, but I’m not going to accept your premise that I’m somehow giving Assad – Assad the right that --
QUESTION: Okay. Well, you were the one that raised it. You were the --
MR TONER: I mean, what Assad’s – wait, no, now that you’ve raised it --
QUESTION: I didn’t raise it, Mark. You raised it.
MR TONER: -- what Assad’s regime is doing is hardly self-defense. Meeting what were peaceful protests with four years of unmitigated terror and assault on his own people is hardly self-defense.
Edited by aerdil ()
HenryKrinkle posted:US is accusing Assad's government of being primary recipient of ISIS oil because of course they are.
Bye Bye!
discipline posted:plants can't talk on the phone
are you sure, i'm not seeing anything like that in my contract
it's literally the google maps version of reading tea leaves. but i like the obviously different trucks being used as evidence of it being the same location.
Edited by aerdil ()
oh my god. private joker... the littlest soldier.
private joker is a different milgoon trashbag
getfiscal posted:yeah it was TapTheForwardAssist
private joker is a different milgoon trashbag
I morris danced with that guy
aerdil posted:MR TONER: That said – let me finish. That said,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeAZvbqvwt0&t=14m25s
the bit aerdil posted goes for about 5min from this point
thirdplace posted:i hope that some day 40 years in the future after glorious revolution some kind of state worker sits down with an aging donald to record a comprehensive oral history because how tragic would it be if all that knowledge were lost like beers in the rain
i cant wait for Seeing Red except about occupy and fyad.
aerdil posted:lmao this shit is great https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/case-studies/2015/03/18/3062/
it's literally the google maps version of reading tea leaves. but i like the obviously different trucks being used as evidence of it being the same location.
the usage of google maps elevation data is cool, because its horribly inaccurate
By then the CIA-sponsored secret flow of arms from Libya to the Syrian opposition, via Turkey, had been underway for more than a year (it started sometime after Gaddafi’s death on 20 October 2011). The operation was largely run out of a covert CIA annex in Benghazi, with State Department acquiescence. On 11 September 2012 the US ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, was killed during an anti-American demonstration that led to the burning down of the US consulate in Benghazi; reporters for the Washington Post found copies of the ambassador’s schedule in the building’s ruins. It showed that on 10 September Stevens had met with the chief of the CIA’s annex operation. The next day, shortly before he died, he met a representative from Al-Marfa Shipping and Maritime Services, a Tripoli-based company which, the JCS adviser said, was known by the Joint Staff to be handling the weapons shipments.
In the early stages of the talks, the adviser said, the Joint Chiefs tried to establish what Assad needed as a sign of their good intentions. The answer was sent through one of Assad’s friends: ‘Bring him the head of Prince Bandar.’
Catchphrase
HenryKrinkle posted:i remember Rumsfeld accusing Iran of arming al-Qaeda in Iraq back when he was Defense Secretary.
that was sort of different though. during the early occupation, iran wanted to arm its supporters militias in iraq to fight against the sunni militias. it also was happy with sunni attacks on american troops to weaken the occupation. but as has now been seen it was pretty easy for people to get weapons and explosives in iraq.
getfiscal posted:ken roth (HRW) and others are trying to argue that iran supports ISIS because it pushes iraq towards iran. despite the fact that iran considers hezbollah and syria allies. and the fact that violence in northern iraq has led to a renewed US military presence. and the fact that iraq's government has already been led by pro-Iran forces for a decade. and the fact that isis systematically destroys shia communities.
not to mention these people specifically advocate making a peace deal "unthinkable" if it doesn't involve prosecution for assad. it's like okay, let's ensure the continuation of a bloody civil war because "human rights" orgs want to throw a man in jail lol
littlegreenpills posted:even the dullardest of libs must realize
Hahahahahaaaa not a chance
We believe there were about 10 people recruited into what is called ISIS. We believe they receive money from people connected to the regime. These guys are unemployed rejects in the town and if they were really against the regime, they wouldn't have stood by doing nothing while the regime besieges us.