gwarp posted:i hope this doesn't hurt his chances of getting into columbia or yale...
bridgeport is a poor / white minority city
discipline posted:they make room to point out this guy is "respected" and something had to have made him snap (this girl obvs). this is insulting, as if male entitlement to female bodies is not an everyday part of "respectable" society
Romantic jealousy is a myth of the patriarchy– we can safely assume the kid had been trained as a crack mensrights/PUA activist since the age of nine.
in all honesty the idea of sexual entitlement is, imo, the main driving force for all sexual assault and i ignorantly have no idea how such a deeply entrenched aspect of culture like this can be changed.
edit: ugh how embarrassing, too late to go back now
gwarp posted:
idk i think sexual violence is better combated in our generation than in previous ones. not because of any Dialogue on rape culture, but because of material changes like the proliferation of pepper-spray and other Real preventative and responsive services available to victims.
perhaps sexual entitlement is more intensified in our generation but i don't think we could measure that, and even if it has, i'm skeptical of that any such causation-link that gives too much credit to shifts in conciousness
gwarp posted:being younger than like all of you i've seen this intensify in my generation to an extreme level that
things have been getting much worse for women ever since rape was invented in february 1993
gwarp posted:actually having long and detailed conversations about how they were going to "lure" and "rape" others.
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Waylondo posted:perhaps sexual entitlement is more intensified in our generation but i don't think we could measure that, and even if it has, i'm skeptical of that any such causation-link that gives too much credit to shifts in conciousness
couldnt a perceived intensification of sexual entitlement actually be an indicator of and a reaction to these material changes? idk the extent to which that can actually be true tho
and while it's great for women to have so many more means of defending themselves from assault, just think of the culture of distrust that will breed if all men are insane freaks and all women are packing heat lol. women should be able to use whatever they can to defend themselves, but if men continue their spiral into insanity as times goes on, who knows what will happen, especially now to this thoroughly "pornified" new generation.
maybe i just dont understand either, i dont usually talk about this stuff, just this article sparked something in me i guess
Edited by Peelzebub ()
discipline posted:they make room to point out this guy is "respected" and something had to have made him snap (this girl obvs). this is insulting, as if male entitlement to female bodies is not an everyday part of "respectable" society
not really? imho, kids do stupid things when they're figuring out romance and relationships. personally, i was stupid about how i approached girls i loved, had crushes on, or whatever you want to call it at that age) but otherwise social and well adjusted with other girls. obviously, after heartbreak it was worse.
obviously people have different motivations and whomever broke my heart had whatever justification to do so which even i understood on some level at the time. just because i could attribute my motivations to heartbreak doesn't mean i'm relinquishing agency.
c_man posted:gwarp posted:actually having long and detailed conversations about how they were going to "lure" and "rape" others.
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yeah i remember someone posting some kind of story from her youth about how the young boys that she knew were all crazy in some kind of debauched way, making their friends who were girls watch violent porn and what not. all of you were like "no way," "unbelievable," etc, which was very surprising to me. as bad is it is to say this is the norm, this is just the way things are, or rather this is how bad they has gotten.
RescueCreditor posted:Hey Senorah, are you going to the Rhizzone prom? It's going to be pretty lame, but it might be fun if we, like, went together.
Sure, meet me in the woods behind school.
gwarp posted:c_man posted:gwarp posted:actually having long and detailed conversations about how they were going to "lure" and "rape" others.
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yeah i remember someone posting some kind of story from her youth about how the young boys that she knew were all crazy in some kind of debauched way, making their friends who were girls watch violent porn and what not. all of you were like "no way," "unbelievable," etc, which was very surprising to me. as bad is it is to say this is the norm, this is just the way things are, or rather this is how bad they has gotten.
maybe i was wasn't cool enough to be invited to the rape porn parties
couldnt a perceived intensification of sexual entitlement actually be an indicator of and a reaction to these material changes? idk the extent to which that can actually be true tho
interesting. probably!
gwarp posted:i know that physical defense wasn't the only part of your point, but preventing such a thing from even happening in the first place is the best preventive measure and that can only be done through reeducating men somehow someway
maybe i just dont understand either, i dont usually talk about this stuff, just this article sparked something in me i guess
very true that prevention is the goal, not reponse. that we value the re-education of men or arming women or any other such policy is contingent on its fulfillment of that ultimate goal.
SO the question is which action is more effective at that goal? imo the ideological reconditioning of men would not achieve much. we must take consciousness off its 'transcendent' pedestal and place it back where it belongs: back into biology. people decide how to act on unconscious cognition that come before any articulated ideological thought. there is always ambiguity in how our personal values and ideologies should be applied to the present moment, which is always unique and irreducible to past experiences.
what im saying is that the necessary ambiguity of ideological values means that they are essentially superfluous flavor text wrapped on biological behavior. it doesn't matter if i identify as a marxist or femliberal or whatever, my actions would be the same. the only thing that different ideologies change is the language used to justify or rationalize such action.
thats not to say that a feminist and MRA are likely to act the same. not by any means. but those differences come from preceding emotional differences or differences in lived experience. i.e. the feminist probably has more empathy for women or something. the MRA is desperately horny and can't attract anyone.
SO that means that ideological re-education on a conscious level would not change anything. men continue to rape and perhaps feel bad about it but continue to do it etc. the kind of re-education that COULD work is one that relies on more biological conditioning. electroshock therapy or something like they did in clockwork orange.
Waylondo posted:SO that means that ideological re-education on a conscious level would not change anything. men continue to rape and perhaps feel bad about it but continue to do it etc. the kind of re-education that COULD work is one that relies on more biological conditioning. electroshock therapy or something like they did in clockwork orange.
feel like this borders dangerously on "boys will be boys"
quibs posted:Waylondo posted:SO that means that ideological re-education on a conscious level would not change anything. men continue to rape and perhaps feel bad about it but continue to do it etc. the kind of re-education that COULD work is one that relies on more biological conditioning. electroshock therapy or something like they did in clockwork orange.
feel like this borders dangerously on "boys will be boys"
Yeah this was stupid as shit. Everyone, perform your community-required biological conditioning and kill a rapist today.
quibs posted:Waylondo posted:SO that means that ideological re-education on a conscious level would not change anything. men continue to rape and perhaps feel bad about it but continue to do it etc. the kind of re-education that COULD work is one that relies on more biological conditioning. electroshock therapy or something like they did in clockwork orange.
feel like this borders dangerously on "boys will be boys"
it is the opposite. it is not a justification for the behavior, it is an explanation that changing consciousness does not guarantee a change in behavior. this understanding is crucial to pursue more effective preventative measures. we still wack dogs when they piss on the carpet. this is more effective at preventing future pissing than talking to your dog about how you hate the smell of urine.
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Waylondo posted:what im saying is that the necessary ambiguity of ideological values means that they are essentially superfluous flavor text wrapped on biological behavior. it doesn't matter if i identify as a marxist or femliberal or whatever, my actions would be the same. the only thing that different ideologies change is the language used to justify or rationalize such action.
i sort of agree with the explicit caveat that the way we understand our own ideologies definitely has an effect on the way we behave. if you identify as part of some group and see someone else you identify as part of the group doing something you're probably more likely to associate those actions as "belonging" to the group in some respect, unless, for example, you take the perspective of rooting out "inauthentic" behavior from the group. both of these are ways in which perceived group identity affects our behavior. i would also say that the question of identifying with some group identity at all shouldn't necessarily be taken for granted, or at least could stand to be heavily qualified.
c_man posted:Waylondo posted:what im saying is that the necessary ambiguity of ideological values means that they are essentially superfluous flavor text wrapped on biological behavior. it doesn't matter if i identify as a marxist or femliberal or whatever, my actions would be the same. the only thing that different ideologies change is the language used to justify or rationalize such action.
i sort of agree with the explicit caveat that the way we understand our own ideologies definitely has an effect on the way we behave. if you identify as part of some group and see someone else you identify as part of the group doing something you're probably more likely to associate those actions as "belonging" to the group in some respect, unless, for example, you take the perspective of rooting out "inauthentic" behavior from the group. both of these are ways in which perceived group identity affects our behavior. i would also say that the question of identifying with some group identity at all shouldn't necessarily be taken for granted, or at least could stand to be heavily qualified.
good point. instilling a social identity is probably very useful. but i think that's distinct from instilling ideology.
Jonathan Law students and faculty members struggled on Saturday to make sense of the incomprehensible: how a student whom many described as funny and popular could be accused of murder.
“He was an all-American kid, the kind of kid you’d want your kids hanging around,” said Gail Wells, the mother of a student who has known the Plaskon family for years.
Mr. Plaskon, the third of five brothers, was a member of the football team, said Mark Robinson, 38, who coached the team and retired last season. Mr. Plaskon was a member of the baseball and track teams as well, and his parents often took part in school fund-raisers, Mr. Robinson said. There were no signs of trouble in the weeks before the killing, he said.
“They’re looking for the kid in the black cape and the fangs and the black fingernails, but there was no sign,” Mr. Robinson said. “He wasn’t a kid who was in the shadows. He was a well-liked kid. He was funnier than hell. That’s what makes it really strange.”
No fathers or fathers who don't give a heck about their sons and therefore no fear of anyone.
Freud told us that for a boy to develop a proper conscience there must be an authoritative Father in the boys life. If not a Father then another adult male who has authority over the boy. Grandfather, Uncle, Godfather etc.
yes, this is Exactly what freud says. boys need dads, dads for boys - sigmund "ol' cokey" freud
Groulxsmith posted:Buzzfeed's 22 Gifs That Explain Everything About Millennial Kid Rape Culture
is it somehow inappropriate that i consider The Accused to be "my favorite movie of all time"?
swirlsofhistory posted:discipline posted:they make room to point out this guy is "respected" and something had to have made him snap (this girl obvs). this is insulting, as if male entitlement to female bodies is not an everyday part of "respectable" society
Romantic jealousy is a myth of the patriarchy– we can safely assume the kid had been trained as a crack mensrights/PUA activist since the age of nine.
Damn hell yeah murdering a girl is just some romantic jealousy. Now is this part of your Kantian take down of Idiot Women or are you just spouting The Good Shit straight off your dome