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The New York Times

October 8, 2013
Genes Suggest European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree

By NICHOLAS WADE

Over the last 15 years geneticists have identified links between the world’s Jewish communities that point to a common ancestry as well as a common religion. Still, the origin of one of the most important Jewish populations, the Ashkenazim of Central and Eastern Europe, has remained a mystery.

A new genetic analysis has now filled in another piece of the origins puzzle, pointing to European women as the principal female founders, and to the Jewish community of the early Roman empire as the possible source of the Ashkenazi ancestors.

The finding establishes that the women who founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community of Europe were not from the Near East, as previously supposed, and reinforces the idea that many Jewish communities outside Israel were founded by single men who married and converted local women.

The study, published Tuesday in the journal Nature Communications, is based on a genetic analysis of maternal lineages. A team led by Martin B. Richards of the University of Huddersfield in England took a fresh look at Ashkenazi lineages by decoding the entire mitochondrial genomes of people from Europe and the Near East.

Earlier DNA studies showed that Jewish communities around the world had been founded by men whose Y chromosomes bore DNA patterns typically found in the Near East. But there was a surprise when geneticists turned to examine the women founders by analyzing mitochondrial DNA, a genetic element that is separate from the main human genome and inherited just through the female line.

Unlike the Y chromosomes, the mitochondrial DNA showed no common pattern. In several of the smaller Jewish communities it clearly resembled that of the surrounding population, suggesting a migration pattern in which the men had arrived single, perhaps as traders, and taken local wives who then converted to Judaism.

But it wasn’t clear whether or not this was true of the Ashkenazim. Mitochondrial DNA tends to change quite rapidly, or to drift, as geneticists say, and the Ashkenazi DNA has drifted so far it was hard to pinpoint its origin.

This uncertainty seemed to be resolved by a survey published in 2006. Its authors reported that the four most common mitochondrial DNA lineages among Ashkenazis came from the Near East, implying that just four Jewish women were the ancestresses of nearly half of today’s Ashkenazim. Under this scenario, it seemed more likely that the Ashkenazim were the result of a migration of whole communities of men and women together.

But decoding DNA was still quite expensive at that time and the authors of the 2006 survey analyzed only a short length of the mitochondrial DNA, containing just 1,000 or so of its 16,600 DNA units, in all their subjects.

The four mitochondrial lineages common among Ashkenazis are now very rare elsewhere in the Near East and Europe, making it hard to identify with certainty the lineages from which they originated.

With the entire mitochondrial genome in hand, Dr. Richards could draw up family trees with a much finer resolution than before. His trees show that the four major Ashkenazi lineages in fact form clusters within descent lines that were established in Europe some 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. The same is true of most of the minor lineages.

Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed,” Dr. Richards and colleagues conclude in their paper. Overall, at least 80 percent of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry comes from women indigenous to Europe, and 8 percent from the Near East, with the rest uncertain, the researchers estimate.

Dr. Richards estimates that the four major lineages became incorporated into the Ashkenazi community at least 2,000 years ago. A large Jewish community flourished in Rome at this time and included many converts. This community could have been the source of both the Ashkenazim of Europe and the Sephardim of Spain and Portugal, given that the two groups have considerable genetic commonality, Dr. Richards said.

Doron M. Behar, of the Gene by Gene company in Houston and a co-author of the 2006 survey, said he disagreed with Dr. Richards’ conclusions but declined to explain his reasons, saying they had to appear first in a scientific journal.

David B. Goldstein, a geneticist at Duke University who first detected the similarity between the founding mothers of Jewish communities and their host populations, said the new analysis was well done but that the estimate of 80 percent European origin for the Ashkenazi maternal lineages was not statistically justified, given that mitochondrial DNA lineages rise and fall in a random way.

A recent analysis based on the whole genomes, not just mitochondrial DNA, of Jewish communities around the world noted that almost all overlap with non-Jewish populations of the Levant, “consistent with an ancestral Levantine contribution to much of contemporary Jewry.” Dr. Richards said that the finding was compatible with his own, given that the Levantine contribution was not that great.

Another recent study, also based on whole genomes, found that a mixture of European ancestries ranged from 30 percent to 60 percent among Ashkenazi and Sephardi populations, with Northern Italians showing the greatest proximity to Jews of any Europeans.

The authors of this study in Nature Communications, led by Gil Atzmon of the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, noted that there had been mass conversions to Judaism in the early Roman empire, resulting in some 6 million citizens, or 10 percent of the population, practicing Judaism.

Dr. Richards sees this as a possible time and place at which the four European lineages could have entered the Jewish community, becoming very numerous much later as the Ashkenazi population in northern Europe expanded from around 25,000 in 1300 A.D., to more than 8.5 million at the beginning of the 20th century.

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fuck
#3
That explains alot
#4
#wow #whoa #italiano
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where da white women at
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Fuckin ITalians
#7
hey mambo!
#8
lol this is cool, they actually cite shlomo sand's book at one point, though he's been fairly negative towards genetic genealogy up to this point because most of the stuff coming out of it has contradicted his claim
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NYT: Jews Even Whiter Than We Thought
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Big Fag here, reporting for duty!

Edited by jools ()

#12

roseweird posted:

nation/world continues obsession with jewish heritage, bodies, dna, history, all is going according to plan


the rreason ppl are obsessed with jewish heritage is because bibi netanyahu stands up on stage and says israel belongs to the jews because their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago.

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Bodies
#14
Bloodline alone is a rather lowly basis for ownership. It can be important, but it ought to be connected to something greater; if you want to claim ownership based on your ancestors, then you need to exhibit love for your ancestors and carry on their society. Does this Netanyahu fellow say that the land also belongs to the Jews because they uphold and develop ancient Jewish society/culture? That would be something more impressive, but then you have other groups who also lived in their geographic area and have modern adherents.



#15
Huh, I almost made a bigoted post in the new New York thread along the lines of "do any two groups of people deserve each other more than Jews and Italians?" Go figure.
#16
Well Christopher Columbus was Italian, and he pioneered taking other peoples land through ethnic cleansing.
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Italians are cool people

The survey of 4,000 women in the continent's five largest countries found that 76 per cent of Italian housewives were dissatisfied with their lives, compared to 51 per cent in the UK, 53 per cent in Germany, 57 per cent in France and 63 per cent in Spain.

Italian women said they were worried about the economic crisis, the difficulty of re-entering the work market after having children and the dearth of child care centres.
The survey, by a think tank called Women and Quality of Life, found that half of Italian women said they regretted getting married and two-thirds regretted having children.

A lingering culture of machismo means that Italian women have to do far more housework and child rearing than their counterparts in countries such as Britain. Research has found that 70 per cent of Italian men have never used an oven, while 95 per cent have never emptied a washing machine.

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it's not mentioned there but also 95% of italian men have never taken a shower Lol
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roseweird posted:

yeah, israel isnt just populated by ashkenazim though and many orthodox israeli jews already consider a lot of american and european ashkenazim impure or simply Not Really Jews. the report also mentions that the ashkenazim genome has a levantine contribution, it's just not distinguishable from other levantine semitic groups. personally, i'm a phoenician imo


well here's the thing. ashkenazi jews are the largest jewish ethnic group in israel, make up about half of israeli jews, they dominate israeli politics, every israeli prime minister has been ashkenazi, and worldwide they're a huge huge majority of all jews. so i think its reasonable to talk about ashkenazi jews regardless of whether some people dont think theyre real jews.

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thug lessosn no one cares what you think about jews
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the ashkeNAZI, combining italian treachery with arab money-grubbing
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roseweird posted:

it seems like jews could have existed in the lands of judea/israel/palestine peacefully and continued developing their faith alongside christians, muslims, zoroastrians, etc. perhaps, as agnus_dei recently posted, if more had listened to the prophetic words of the christ they could have simply waited out the reign of the roman empire and all other empires in dignity and reflection, biding their time as a gentle-hearted religious minority and sustaining themselves by strength in faith, however this was not to be, and the mad war state of israel now shames the jewish people who have ignored god's word and turned from god's mercy. imo



Some/most of them did just that, they're called Samaritans and that practice is the reason there's only like 100 of them left

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Italians out of the Levant NOW!
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#28
both whiteness and jewishness are real
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furthermore i'm insulted by the spellchecker, which tells me that "Whiteness" is properly spelled while lowercase, while "Jewishness" is not, and is deserving of capitalization. fuck this jewish conspiracy.
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turns out nothing that "exists" outside of my head is real at all
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both whiteness and jewishness are therefore real because they are things i have constructed in order to amuse myself
#33
Imagine Woody Allen talking in like a Tony Soprano accent. "Ehh, gabagool, eata some manicot with prahshoot, va fangool, ehhh" hahaha
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roseweird posted:

between the levant and greece there are all these islands in the aegean sea and many historical levantine populations have also been european and north african populations since at least 1200 bc and possibly since about 1800 bc. the hellenistic jews of the third century bc were almost certainly a mixed judeo-grecian population. it's almost like whiteness... and jewishness... aren't real?



#35
guess u could say this really puts the nazi in ashkenazi jew
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didnt read the thread btw in case someone already made the obvious joke, dont care
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#38
And now there Nazi's
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#40
what the fuck is this thread